Cryogenic Freezing
BaconTheory
Join Date: 2003-09-06 Member: 20615Members
Join Date: 2003-09-06 Member: 20615Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Possible? Practial?</div> Just the other day I was wondering abiut Cryogenic freezing. I'm sure that you know what it is - you have seen it in numerous sci-fi movies and the game Halo. My question is this: Is cryogenic freezing feasible or even practical? From what I ahve read in PopSci and around the internet, opinions are split. Some say it is still something of science fiction. Others say that today's technology and science is catching up and that it will be possible in the near future.
One use for cryogenic freezing is to extend humans' lifespans dramatically. We would be able to freeze a person toward the end of their life, and preserve their bodies. We would then be able to thaw them out and repair all of the diseases/skeletal damage/aging that one encountered in his or her lifetime, therfore extending the lifespan of the person by about 80 or so years. However, to freeze someone, they would have to be frozen at extremely low temperatures such as those around -220°C (<a href='http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/life_extension/cryogenicfreez170566.html' target='_blank'>Source</a>).
The reasoning for freezing cells and tissues at these cold temperatures is that when cells stop recieving blood flow, toxic chemical reactions take place, thus inducing the decaying process, and by freezing the cells, scientists believe that the toxic chemical reactions can be substantially reduced, or even halted altogether. That would allow one to essentially stay in cryostasis forever.
Another reason for cryofreezing would be for long space flights, such as those to Mars in the future. Astronauts could be put in to cryostasis in the begining of their flight and awake at the end of the journey. This would greatly reduce the amount of food that would be needed to carried and would reduce weight. This would also aid psychologically becasue the astronauts would not have feelings of long travel times, and therefore, greatly reduce the chance of developing depression.
All of this stuff about cryogenics is pure imagination right now. However, in the near future, or even in the distan future, humans may be able to use cryogenics easily and practically.
One use for cryogenic freezing is to extend humans' lifespans dramatically. We would be able to freeze a person toward the end of their life, and preserve their bodies. We would then be able to thaw them out and repair all of the diseases/skeletal damage/aging that one encountered in his or her lifetime, therfore extending the lifespan of the person by about 80 or so years. However, to freeze someone, they would have to be frozen at extremely low temperatures such as those around -220°C (<a href='http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/life_extension/cryogenicfreez170566.html' target='_blank'>Source</a>).
The reasoning for freezing cells and tissues at these cold temperatures is that when cells stop recieving blood flow, toxic chemical reactions take place, thus inducing the decaying process, and by freezing the cells, scientists believe that the toxic chemical reactions can be substantially reduced, or even halted altogether. That would allow one to essentially stay in cryostasis forever.
Another reason for cryofreezing would be for long space flights, such as those to Mars in the future. Astronauts could be put in to cryostasis in the begining of their flight and awake at the end of the journey. This would greatly reduce the amount of food that would be needed to carried and would reduce weight. This would also aid psychologically becasue the astronauts would not have feelings of long travel times, and therefore, greatly reduce the chance of developing depression.
All of this stuff about cryogenics is pure imagination right now. However, in the near future, or even in the distan future, humans may be able to use cryogenics easily and practically.
Comments
I remember my high school science teacher dropping a gold fish into liquid nitrogen for a short time, taking it out, then dropping it into water. After a few minutes, the gold fish was swimming around like nothing happened.
Now if a gold fish can do it, a human can right? No exactly, our bodies are extremely more complex than the fish, but maybe at 1K, things might change.
On the flip side, after he put a banana in liquid nitrogen then did the same thing with it as the fish, as it warmed up it rotted.
Some definately science behind it.
Maybe in the future someone will invent a "Dehydrated Human, Just Add Water!" type of deal.
bout all I remember sadly as it was a good while since I watched it or looked anything up on it.
bout all I remember sadly as it was a good while since I watched it or looked anything up on it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I watched the same program but aswell I remember very little else about it.
On another not i think the scientific advantages of this far outway the drawbacks I can think of.
<img src='http://www.weatherimages.org/graphics/new_windchill.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Human cells have water in them water crystalizes and expands as a solid. This destroys cells.
Cryogenics would be certainly possible if you had say an android body.
Interesting discussion.
It isn't your imagination. That's what happens to cells after they've been frozen. It isn't a genetic engineering problem, because anti-freeze in the blood would completely defeat the purpose of freezing a person.
It is a physics problem, and so far, physics has a stern foot on the issue saying this is not going to happen.
Yep. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It just won't work with your cells. (blame it on water)
It isn't your imagination. That's what happens to cells after they've been frozen. It isn't a genetic engineering problem, because anti-freeze in the blood would completely defeat the purpose of freezing a person.
It is a physics problem, and so far, physics has a stern foot on the issue saying this is not going to happen. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how implementation of antifreeze tactics would defeat the purpose of cryogenics. We don't have to turn anything into solids, we just need to slow everything down to the point where all physical and chemical processes have stopped. That being said, one of the more popular cryogenic theories is that in the future we will be able to ingect a cryofrozen corpse with function specific nanobots and repair the damage caused by expansion and contraction of freezing water as the freezee is being thawed.
It isn't your imagination. That's what happens to cells after they've been frozen. It isn't a genetic engineering problem, because anti-freeze in the blood would completely defeat the purpose of freezing a person.
It is a physics problem, and so far, physics has a stern foot on the issue saying this is not going to happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how implementation of antifreeze tactics would defeat the purpose of cryogenics. We don't have to turn anything into solids, we just need to slow everything down to the point where all physical and chemical processes have stopped. That being said, one of the more popular cryogenic theories is that in the future we will be able to ingect a cryofrozen corpse with function specific nanobots and repair the damage caused by expansion and contraction of freezing water as the freezee is being thawed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chemical processes cannot take place at sub temperatures, which is why we are warm-blooded creatures and our temperature must remain at a steady 98.6. If you do not freeze, cells age, nothing reproduces, food is not broken down, and cells begin to die very quickly. If it is to be done, the whole body must be frozen.
And I'm saying that isn't possible given the damages freezing can do. Nanites, even if they were invented, could not get access to everywhere inside a frozen cell. They couldn't move around the body, but if they could through the blood, the blood cells would die due to decay and lack of oxygen (remember the heart isn't beating).
It isn't your imagination. That's what happens to cells after they've been frozen. It isn't a genetic engineering problem, because anti-freeze in the blood would completely defeat the purpose of freezing a person.
It is a physics problem, and so far, physics has a stern foot on the issue saying this is not going to happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how implementation of antifreeze tactics would defeat the purpose of cryogenics. We don't have to turn anything into solids, we just need to slow everything down to the point where all physical and chemical processes have stopped. That being said, one of the more popular cryogenic theories is that in the future we will be able to ingect a cryofrozen corpse with function specific nanobots and repair the damage caused by expansion and contraction of freezing water as the freezee is being thawed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chemical processes cannot take place at sub temperatures, which is why we are warm-blooded creatures and our temperature must remain at a steady 98.6. If you do not freeze, cells age, nothing reproduces, food is not broken down, and cells begin to die very quickly. If it is to be done, the whole body must be frozen.
And I'm saying that isn't possible given the damages freezing can do. Nanites, even if they were invented, could not get access to everywhere inside a frozen cell. They couldn't move around the body, but if they could through the blood, the blood cells would die due to decay and lack of oxygen (remember the heart isn't beating). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't prosume to make any claims about the realism of the theory, but some people seem to think it is possible, I really know nothing about it other than the fact that it exists.
[edit] its still fact that if somehow we were not water based at freezing point we could retain the liquid status of our internals at absolute zero without taking frost damage. Not to say that it is possible in the least with today's technology, but if it were the problem would be compleatly solved already.
I saw a program were they froze kidneys from rabbits down after they had injected a strange liquid into their veins... the liquid somehow made the frozen water work as a shielding around the cells instead of destroying it.. most of the kidneys were reinstated into the rabbits after a week in a veeeeeeeery cold freezer.. most survived
And that's not even getting into the question of whether or not someone will come back to life if you freeze them, even perfectly, and then reanimate them. At what point does the brain just say 'hey, the body isn't doing anything... I think I'm dead now'? And on a philosophical level, does your soul just hang around waiting for your body to become useful again? (assuming we're allowing for a soul in this discussion)
And that's not even getting into the question of whether or not someone will come back to life if you freeze them, even perfectly, and then reanimate them. At what point does the brain just say 'hey, the body isn't doing anything... I think I'm dead now'? And on a philosophical level, does your soul just hang around waiting for your body to become useful again? (assuming we're allowing for a soul in this discussion) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cell rupture problem is really the only thing preventing cryogenic freezing from becomming a reality.
There are frogs (most of them actually) that are frozen solid during the winter months, their cells produce an antifreeze like material that disrupts the formation of water crystals. This allows them to survive the winter months without frostbite. When they thaw out the just hop merrily on their way.
The question then becomes, could our body handle such an 'antifreeze' in our systems?
And that's not even getting into the question of whether or not someone will come back to life if you freeze them, even perfectly, and then reanimate them. At what point does the brain just say 'hey, the body isn't doing anything... I think I'm dead now'? And on a philosophical level, does your soul just hang around waiting for your body to become useful again? (assuming we're allowing for a soul in this discussion) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cell rupture problem is really the only thing preventing cryogenic freezing from becomming a reality.
There are frogs (most of them actually) that are frozen solid during the winter months, their cells produce an antifreeze like material that disrupts the formation of water crystals. This allows them to survive the winter months without frostbite. When they thaw out the just hop merrily on their way.
The question then becomes, could our body handle such an 'antifreeze' in our systems? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not frog anti freeze... Not of thier own accord at least...
A method of installation and extraction, if it were possible, might do the trick.
And that's not even getting into the question of whether or not someone will come back to life if you freeze them, even perfectly, and then reanimate them. At what point does the brain just say 'hey, the body isn't doing anything... I think I'm dead now'? And on a philosophical level, does your soul just hang around waiting for your body to become useful again? (assuming we're allowing for a soul in this discussion) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cell rupture problem is really the only thing preventing cryogenic freezing from becomming a reality.
There are frogs (most of them actually) that are frozen solid during the winter months, their cells produce an antifreeze like material that disrupts the formation of water crystals. This allows them to survive the winter months without frostbite. When they thaw out the just hop merrily on their way.
The question then becomes, could our body handle such an 'antifreeze' in our systems? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not frog anti freeze... Not of thier own accord at least...
A method of installation and extraction, if it were possible, might do the trick. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here you go: <a href='http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/narcam/idguide/wood1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/narcam/idguide/wood1.htm</a>
It seems this wouldn't be helpful for cryogenics. The "anti-freeze" just allows the cells to continue operating down to -5 C. You don't want the cells to continue operating in cryogenics.