Doors
Crispy
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Guidelines to improve map playability</div> I was browsing through the Public Beta Discussion Forum when I stumbled upon a campaign (don't worry it hadn't gathered much support) to remove the Commander's ability to open/close doors.
This is pretty much what I posted, taking the "No way! What the hell are you thinking" side of the debate.
Speaking as a mapper I would say that a certain amount of common sense comes into this when designing a map.
1. The speed of the door should depend partly on its size and weight.
2. The damage of a door should depend on its speed, size, and weight.
With this in mind you can see why closing doors to kill Aliens should never be considered an exploit, nor should the Commander's ability to manipulate the internal features of an ns_map be removed. This is an interactive element of the game whose removal would only kill NS playability.
The only doors that should be able to move fast enough to successfully do damage to a player should be doors with substantial momentum. Doors that are only 10cm/3" thick and made out of a lightweight metal alloy wouldn't be able to do appreciable damage to a I-don't-know-how-many-ton Onos. It is, however, feasible that a gargantuan steel door designed to hold against high pressure (/extreme impact etc.), while moving at a much slower speed, could trap and maim a player.
I would hope that this is pretty much common sense when mapping, but I'd thought I'd post it anyway (maybe it should be added to the Official Mapping Guidelines) just in case anyone had, or was thinking of, littering their map with doors doing 10000000 damage. Apparently this is a problem in some of the exisisting Official maps.
If you have any other input on how/how not to use doors in your map, please feel free to air your thoughts.
This is pretty much what I posted, taking the "No way! What the hell are you thinking" side of the debate.
Speaking as a mapper I would say that a certain amount of common sense comes into this when designing a map.
1. The speed of the door should depend partly on its size and weight.
2. The damage of a door should depend on its speed, size, and weight.
With this in mind you can see why closing doors to kill Aliens should never be considered an exploit, nor should the Commander's ability to manipulate the internal features of an ns_map be removed. This is an interactive element of the game whose removal would only kill NS playability.
The only doors that should be able to move fast enough to successfully do damage to a player should be doors with substantial momentum. Doors that are only 10cm/3" thick and made out of a lightweight metal alloy wouldn't be able to do appreciable damage to a I-don't-know-how-many-ton Onos. It is, however, feasible that a gargantuan steel door designed to hold against high pressure (/extreme impact etc.), while moving at a much slower speed, could trap and maim a player.
I would hope that this is pretty much common sense when mapping, but I'd thought I'd post it anyway (maybe it should be added to the Official Mapping Guidelines) just in case anyone had, or was thinking of, littering their map with doors doing 10000000 damage. Apparently this is a problem in some of the exisisting Official maps.
If you have any other input on how/how not to use doors in your map, please feel free to air your thoughts.
Comments
And fast moving doors which do massive damage should not be used since they are almost unavoidable by any player when they are triggered. It wouldnt be logical to have them being able to kill people/aliens while closing, wouldnt that be against the any normal safety protocol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This would be a nice addition to the mapping guidelines...
so I have to decrease the speed of the doors since they do massive damage. I wont suggest giving the doors lower damage value. there are some problems with the sound when this doors are successfully blocked during movement. sound overflow even crashed our server once XD
and when I think about it... slowly moving doors are more thrilling. btw I hate the "lets place some chamber to stop this elevator. this might be a gameplay related decision, I dont like it much. so beware: be quick or be flatened <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>I'm about to make a room with switches ONLY accessible by the Commander, so he will pwn the facility through his automatic door control. The Aliens, however, can use the vents or some func_breakables to cut the power to the door. If they do this the door will remain open for the rest of the game and the Commander will lose access to this door's control system.</b>
EDIT: This could be quite a good idea if implemented in an intelligent manner. For instance if a Hive was deemed too close to Aliens and you wanted to 'hold them up' without having to completely change the map layout this could work quite well.
Another example would be a ns_veil-style map where a double res is locked off by one door. The Marines' Commander can feely open/close this door, allowing/negating both teams access to it. The twist comes when the Marines realise they have to take the <i>long</i> (and I mean long) route round to get there, meeting several Alien ambushes along the way. I think I'd prefer that gameplay style to ns_veils, which is pretty much just a dash for the flag.
Anyway, back on topic! This thread doesn't neccessarily have to be about doors (as the title suggests) but it could include any type of impassible (Commander operable or not) that can help/hinder a team. For instance: When to use vents, when to use ladders and not elevators/lifts. Brainstorm people, brainstorm!
P.S. I swear when Carioca finally finishes his map it's gonna pwn hardcore!
With that said I think lowering the speed of the func_ brushes or allowing for a delay before trigger would solve many issues.
Well unless it's supposed to be a guillotine. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> lol
I'm about to make a room with switches ONLY accessible by the Commander, so he will pwn the facility through his automatic door control. The Aliens, however, can use the vents or some func_breakables to cut the power to the door. If they do this the door will remain open for the rest of the game and the Commander will lose access to this door's control system. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad someone is here to translate for us.
On-topic, I fully understand your point, and fully agree with it, i very rarely add damage to doors, unless its a door of substantial size (which I have moving slowly)
Think about it, when you enter a lift irl and maybe your leg gets caught it the door, because you were trying to get in while the doors were closing, it doesnt hurt and crush you, it stops and reopens. I'm sure in the NS universe the same would apply as basic saftey regulations.
Also you need to take into account what kind of person/organisation owns the installation/ship/etc. If it's someone who either won't part with a penny to save his mother's life or just doesn't give a damn about Health&Safety then you have an excuse for a more dangerous environment. If it's a government-run science facility then they'll probably want to keep their valuable research updated by their valuable science team.
The latter should never get in the way of the simple playability of a map. By all means don't make it a McDonald's funzone complete with foam sides and a plastic ball pit, but don't make it too hard for the average player to logically move around the map.
(This one is seriously hard to translate...)
<b>Wait! I have a new idea! Think about a room where the airlock does damage to lamers by sucking the air out. This could be done by using a trigger_hurt. Start the pain! Another door would open quickly to suck out the foreign atmosphere (with the added benefit of decapitating Onoses and removing any carcasses). This would then close and the atmosphere would be re-established.</b>
I don't see how this particular idea would improve gameplay. It sounds like the long-lost cousin of one of the super-fast 100000 damage doors that I was trying to discourage in my original post <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
P.S. I thought that 'start the pain' needed to stay in an untranslated state for added emphasis! (damn there's no smiley that conveys how much I poo my pants every time I read/say/hear those words!)
In short : So many damn problems to be considered with elevators, and so little thought given to them :/
doors are evil, doors are bad. but they are fun when placed right. add 2 or three doors in a map and you changed the gameplay massively! and its very exciting, pressing a button and waiting what comes to you in next few seconds... its a shame they removed the hydraulic door on bast at the bottom of the ms elevator. this door was cool.
and removing ALL the doors on tanith in the cargo room has ruined the gameplay in my eyes. dont just remove them just because entity count is too high, try to make them more simple.
Another thing that makes maps great it easter eggs. What I mean by this is inaccessible but visible areas of the map (not Credits rooms). For instance (again not playtested) I have another A to B corridor that crosses above the Cargo Bay and looks down on either side (to what will depend on how many wpolys I can spare for detail). Also I have a Habitat Ring where one of the vents will cross over a sleeping cubicle (complete with interior detail) and lead out into a corridor that has at one end a security door 1/2 closed, with steam and red hazard lighting flashing to pitch black behind it. Of course this is something you'd expect to see more in Single Player and since I haven't fully completed these areas (and the rest of the map) I don't know if I'll be able to space the map resources for it, but I am a firm beleiver that details of this sort to enhance map atmospherics are easily achieved if given some thought.
You don't want to frustrate players by making something unavoidable or easily exploitable by the opposite team to imbalance the map. Having the door operable to suck Oni out into space might be a bit annoying for someone who's just spent all his resources on a warcow.