Mapping principals etc . . .

humbaba

<div class="IPBDescription">General mapping talk</div>Few things Ive thought about with mapping.

-COncerning the dilemma of maps having 1 level for commander purposes, this doesnt really apply to the aliens. Therefore, there is no reason the aliens cant have their own little "sewer system"(Power Cables, water pipes, Engine Housings, forest canopy?) Above or below the level. Its not like the commander needs to see that, or even should.

-Also, strategically, it might be interesting to have one or two areas that are out of the commanders influence by being on another level( a sublevel consisting entirely of caves or the trash compaction system in a ship). These areas could be condusive to marines, but would add a feeling of eeriness, knowing that the marines are cut off from HQ. This could also provide some tres bien ambush spots for aliens.

-Of course, they would have to be carefully balanced, the marines would need easily defensible positions just outside these "dead zones"

Its just a thought, give me some feedback or throw out some other totally unrelated ideas.

Moleculor

The sewer system idea: Flayra has said (I think) that something like this would be 'ok' as long as it was hard or impossible for marines to get in there... or if there aren't too many of them or something like that. (I never can remember anything but what is on those Mapping Guidelines.)

The Cave System: Whoa. I like. Though it'd be -really- against the mapping guidelines (Not exactly a shootable offence) you've presented it in a way that I really really like... play testing needed of course.

humbaba

As always, play testing is the big green gooeypaint that fixes all ills. Yeah, Im not talking about a whole wide level of inaccesible caves, just one or two tunnels for some spice. Course, just hypothetical. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://66.78.33.98/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

Lotis

I dissagree on you with the multiple levels like that, vents and things sound good but when you start getting areas where the commander cant tell a marine to go and protect or to set up defeces I dont like it. I think it should be kept to generally 1 level. There should be some kinda waypoint that doesnt actually tell the marine to go there but it can mark certain areas, like a green V that shows marines there is a Vent in that area.

humbaba

The whole "commander as Hacker" thing offer cool possibilities for pros and cons. Iwas thinking of areas where there might be a hole in the ships security net. Not a lot, one might be enough. Maybe the power core of the ship has so much energy that it disrupts communications. You wouldn't make the area a chokepoint, it could be avoided. However, the aliens wouldnt suspect that a marine would take the chance of being isolated from his commander, to get behind them. Course, that might lead to the oh so evil deathmatch style of play. So if it was put in at all, it would have to be a negligible piece of the level.

Lotis

Oh by no means am I saying there should be no Blind Spots but like you said I think they should be down in the single digets. I think that having to many as you said would be bad for gameplay, kinda like a fog of war.

humbaba

Totally Random Tangent: What about marines vs. marines. Is anyone designing maps for this type of game. . just wondering. Seems to me that Marines vs. Aliens is most interesting but maybe one or two M vs. m and A vs.A should be there. Kinda kills alot of the principals of the game though. Still .

Isn't it amazing how often I disagree with myself. I'm sure that I fail all the position papers I turn in.

Maybe everything I say is irrelevant.

humbaba

Agreed . .one or two at most, and they should be avoidable and ignored if the players so choose.

liquidscript

The only scenario i can think of that would produce marines vs marines battles would be training.  Maybe there could be some fun training style maps that would be two teams or something.  I haven't heard anything in the fan fiction to support human vs human conflict.

Moleculor

One other thing people have suggested (and I can't believe I'm -mentioning- it, cause I don't like the idea) is 'Pirates' vs 'Marines'....

Lotis

Did you read Unknown Enemy. Remember the training part at the beginning where they had to fight different squads, something similar to that woul be very cool.

Greedo

People, people, people.  Marine vs. Marine and Alien vs. Alien scenarios are definitely in the "possible bag" for later versions.  They won't be included in this initial release, because something like that would require some entity and coding work (not to mention skins and other things) that would delay release immensely.  As for Aliens cs. Aliens, its been mentioned that they are a primal species, and internal aggression is not going to be anything surprising.  About Marines vs. Marines battles, it won't be pirates.  If anything, it will be a rebel faction, or something.  I remember reading in Jeff's background work that the galactic government (or whatever) had been, shall we say, duped into giving the Frontiersmen quality funding for quite some time.  Perhaps some internal unrest leads to covert operations to bring down the alien fighting force they've all grown to resent.  And training would be weak, because you wouldn't have live fire squad vs. squad matches.  It'd be a waste of lives (or bait for aliens, whatever).

Moleculor

But with the training you could just say that all the bullets are fake. Blanks. Holograms. A MILES system.

Greedo

But it wouldn't be nearly intense for the marine in a hologram simulation.  He'd know that at the end of the day, he'd still be alive.  But fighting a small insurrection, you don't know if you'll ever see your kid's face again.

Either way, the gameplay would probably be the same, but you gotta look at this from a storyline point of view.

Moleculor

... Uhh....

What would the story line 'intensity' have to do with how they performed? Besides, isn't it me in that marine suit? I determine how they act. And marines I would think would be -very- competitive anywho.

Greedo

<!--QuoteBegin--Moleculor+Jan. 26 2002,00:03--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Moleculor @ Jan. 26 2002,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->... Uhh....

What would the story line 'intensity' have to do with how they performed?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, well, I guess you're right.  Who needs an interesting background story anyways?  All it does is detract from the gameplay.  Right?

Blinking_Flip

How about (in the future) instead of rebel factions of marine the aliens could have found a way to use mind control on the marines and thus can take over their bodies and use their weapons etc...

Moleculor

Greedo, you remember the Fan-Fiction story where there was two teams of Marines fighting against each other as a training session? That seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

Cremator

i like the ideas.  i think cutting the marines off from the hq sounds awsome.  it seems too easy to me if the commander can see all of the map.  there needs to be some places where marines can get lost.  perhaps the aliens could cut the power if they got to a certain spot, then marines have to repair it...  that sort of stuff.

Slycaster

The marines CAN destroy the commander console, but if that happens, the marines lost anyways <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://66.78.33.98/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> they'd be overrun in seconds. heh.

humbaba

Exactly what I had in mind. The most bone chilling parts of a good movie are when the protagonists are lost and cut off from help, relying on their own teamwork and intelligence to see them through. Admittedly, the whole principal of the Marine Team revolves around strategy orchestrated through the commander, but one or two dead zones might add a little spice to a possibly otherwise monotonous human clockwork of "well oiled human machinery". Talking to a guy who puts tobasco and steak sauce on everything and anything, I'd say a little spice is never a bad thing.

Scythe

I wonder if it would be possible to have areas that are not covered by the security net, monitored by camera towers. The commander would not be able to see aliens within the "Dead zone" untill a camera tower has been placed in it. The commander would then be able to see and give orders within line of sight of the camera tower as normal.

--Scythe--
the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk

UnCritical

Scythe: not sure i follow you exactally, the commander cant see any aliens untill a marine has anyhow.
But if you mean totally blacking out the area untill something is built there(i.e. camera tower,like you said) it would probably have to be coded in, but if you want something like a generator that the aliens can destroy, you could cover the sections that you want to black out with a func_wall_toggle and then toggle it when the genertor is broken/fixed.

KungFuSquirrel

I had a similar thought of a couple "blind" areas quite some time ago, back when ns_veil was still ns_menace... Of course, at the time, I didn't even bother asking about it, since I figured it wouldn't go over too well.  <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo--> Go figure. I do believe the func_wall_toggle idea would work quite well, however.

Lotis

Now I really really think that training similar to that of the Fan-fiction stroy would be exelent. I would really love to do that eventually.

Moleculor

func_wall_toggle would work, in the present Commander mode thing. Not sure about how it'd work with the new one.

Lotis: That one has already been thought of... not sure who's working on it, but I think someone might have volunteered. Or something like that.

Lotis

actually i suggested it in this topic...

Moleculor

I mean months ago.

Lotis

hehehehe

humbaba

Just wondering, is anyone making any maps with a ship crashed on an alien world. Cause if they aren't . . .