The Ultimate Sacrifice.

FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
A small guide to my preferred strat.
How to aid your team most during an NS game? (on pubs)

This guide is all about sacrifice, meaning you will rarely get a chance to go Fade, Lerk or Onos.

The start:
-While the countdown is still running tell your team, that you are saving for a hive.
-Your aim during the first 30 seconds is to rush MS, killing as much rines as possible. Usually there are not more than 3 rines in MS and in most cases all of them are building.
-Depending on the rines reactions to your first rush you are either standing in their base, chewing their IP, always watching the CC.
Or you have been sent back to the spawn queue with at least a single kill.
-Keep pushing their base, as long as you get a positive score count from it (K:D>1).
-If you did a good job, your gorges will have usually secured at least 2 RT and your res count should be 47 around the 2 minute mark.
-Tell your team that you are going to place a hive at “desired location” and place the hive.
-Don’t evolve back to a skulk, just stay gorge. As soon as DCs are going up redemption will be the update of your choice.
-During to build time of the second hive don’t spent any res (unless there is a lack of DCs).
-When the second hive is up and you are having 40+ res move to the third hives location and built it. Should you have 30- res place a MC below each of your 2 hives. Should you have 30+ but 40- res save till 40 for hive placement.
-As soon as the third hive is up start creating an SC walkway from the hives to marine base. (place an SC in your hive, and advance to marine spawn. As soon as you stop cloaking look for a save place to build a SC nearby. Continue till your fellow aliens can walk all the way to marine base cloaked)

-Advantages: Early second hive, early third hive. Might result in a 60 seconds victory.

-Disadvantages: You need to know how to play a decent Skulk/Gorge (this includes bhopping). You should preferably not die as Gorge(hence redemption). You won’t have any OCs to cover you, since you are using all your res for hives and upgrade chambers. You don’t place RTs in the beginning. Relies on DMS.

When to use?
-Usage preferred on nearly any server, especially when the initial rush is a success.

When not use?
-Do not use if you are an Uber-Fade, since your Fade skill will aid your team more.

When to consider use?
-Rushing MS with lots of Clanner/Vets on rines might get tricky.

Written for NS b3.05


Feel free to correct any spelling errors, as well as grammer.
Any opinion, suggestion,addition is welcome.
Should you feel the deep desire to flame, then combine it with a constructive post.
Should you ever meet me on a sever, join Khaara and experience what early hives can do.






QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?

Comments

  • kolokolkolokol Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9166Members Posts: 476
    Isn't this what everyone does anyway? Maybe not suiciding in ms but definetly getting 3 or so skulks ambushing rines for rfk. One saves for hive...at least 2 **** for fade...rest one or two get rts or start laming ...one do dcs and finaly you need a pro early lerk. biggrin-fix.gif
    claxt for the win...
  • jammnojammno Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25832Members Posts: 304
    This is what I do in games when I don't want to jack around as lerk or go uber-fade. >_>

    I disagree with a few things.

    I think you should go sensory first. Tell your team to make sensories. Focus kills much faster early game than defense does. Your aim is to kill as fast as possible to tech to teir three (3 hives.)

    Oh, and it's spelled grammar. >_>
    Stats: Kharaa: 24:10 (23:7) [8:2] Frontiersmen: 18:9 (6:18) [34:9]
    Key: - NS wins/losses - (CO wins/losses) - [Perm Gorge/Commander wins/losses]
    Stats only count on plain servers with no crazy modifications.
    Stats updated on weekdays in the morning.
  • ChargeCharge Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13144Members Posts: 904
    rushing mstart = suicide
    aka Fatality_
  • taboofirestaboofires Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Members Posts: 2,246
    First off, anything that relies on the marines to be at least somewhat incompetant is not strategically valid. You will not kill anything or anyone in MS near the start unless the rines are awful. If you're going to check out MS, you should do a parasite run and then go heal, not feed the rines rfk.

    If you want to build up some RFK to drop a hive early, drop dcs, or fade, then you need to do it right. Figure out where the marines are going, get some buddy skulks, and ambush them from multiple sides. You are far, far more likely to get some kills (or at least not feed the rines) if you plan out your attack at least a little.

    When you are a gorge with no res, or no plans to spend any res for a while, don't stay gorge! Your time would much better be spent as a skulk, keeping your rts alive and whatnot. By the time a few minutes pass (like waiting on the hive to build), you will have payed for the re-gorging cost easily.

    Also, a third hive should not be rushed for. You are overexpanding, and are extremely likely to lose on of your hives. So, you still have two hives, except you've wasted 40 res that could have been better spent. Do not build a third hive until you have two hives somewhat safe, preferably with at least some warning signal OCs. It's not like two hives isn't enough to clear a third, if the marines have taken it.
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    Well believe it or not you can usually rush MS on most pubs.
    At a rate of 1 out of 5 you can end the game before the 3 minute mark because of an succesfull rush on MS. I once even ended the game alone (meaning no one except me had any contact with a rine) wow.gif .

    And the "but what do you do when the others are better than you" argument is not valid. But just in case: If the others are better than me, i will loose.

    I mainly wrote this to point out a gap: the gap of the hive placer alien. Not every player is perfect and knows that a hive is more important than his wish to be an onos.

    I made a small test and recorded hive placement for 20 games. Only in 1 game someone dropped a hive before me. 1 game had not a single hive drop. (these were all games with at least 5vs5).
    Although hive placement is the most important thing for the Khaara many player just dont care, which is sad.

    BTW. i win about 80% of my alien games, since i keep sticking to this kind of sacrifice.
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • Gecko_God_Of_DooomGecko_God_Of_Dooom Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26353Members Posts: 864
    The strategy is good, but relies on Your skill be better than thiers overly. This could only work on a few select maps. due to the fact you bhop speed should be around 500+pref 600+ if your facing equally skilled marines. there are alot of dependancy to this strategy that could account towards a fail or not.
    In my opinion this would be to risky, but on most pub servers, Your skill is probrably greater than most. so I guess it would be okay.
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members Posts: 3,669
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (jammno @ Oct 5 2004, 08:55 AM)
    Focus kills much faster early game than defense does. Your aim is to kill as fast as possible to tech to teir three (3 hives.)

    Until the 2 minute mark, of course, when non-focus skulks kill faster than focus skulks, and you're frantically trying to keep the second hive location clear until it's complete. wink-fix.gif

    QUOTE
    -Advantages: Early second hive, early third hive. Might result in a 60 seconds victory.


    Whaaaaaa? How do early second + third hives = 60 second victories, unless you mean the rush in the beginning, which has nothing to do with getting 2nd/3rd hive.... confused-fix.gif


    This strategy can best be summed up by 3 words: "Rush three hives"
    user posted image
    QUOTE (Snidely)
    I guess their slogan should be "with a Trojan, sex will last as long as the Trojan War, with only a fraction of the eroticism".
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation Posts: 961 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 5 2004, 02:30 PM)
    due to the fact you bhop speed should be around 500+pref 600+ if your facing equally skilled marines.

    If you can bhop over 600 as a vanilla skulk, please forward the demos to me and you can be in exigent. Bhop speed is capped at 510 roughly, and no amount of speed will save you from anyone with experience in pugs or competitive play. Bhoppers are easy to kill, a good ambusher is not.
    [NAPT]
  • AlkillerAlkiller Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28847Members Posts: 1,124
    QUOTE (TheAdj` @ Oct 5 2004, 10:14 PM)
    QUOTE (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 5 2004, 02:30 PM)
    due to the fact you bhop speed should be around 500+pref 600+ if your facing equally skilled marines.

    If you can bhop over 600 as a vanilla skulk, please forward the demos to me and you can be in exigent. Bhop speed is capped at 510 roughly, and no amount of speed will save you from anyone with experience in pugs or competitive play. Bhoppers are easy to kill, a good ambusher is not.

    psh, I can bhop 1000+ as a skulk!







    .... might require a second hive...
    image
  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    edited October 2004
  • muffmanmuffman Join Date: 2004-10-04 Member: 32091Members Posts: 23
    rushing mstart = suicide

    No it doesnt rushing at the start is a smart thing to do. Why do you say its suicide?
    -!Sex Police-! Muffman
    Christina Aguilera is my girlfriend...No seriously she is.
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Oct 6 2004, 03:12 AM)
    QUOTE (jammno @ Oct 5 2004, 08:55 AM)
    Focus kills much faster early game than defense does. Your aim is to kill as fast as possible to tech to teir three (3 hives.)

    Until the 2 minute mark, of course, when non-focus skulks kill faster than focus skulks, and you're frantically trying to keep the second hive location clear until it's complete. wink-fix.gif

    QUOTE
    -Advantages: Early second hive, early third hive. Might result in a 60 seconds victory.


    Whaaaaaa? How do early second + third hives = 60 second victories, unless you mean the rush in the beginning, which has nothing to do with getting 2nd/3rd hive.... confused-fix.gif


    This strategy can best be summed up by 3 words: "Rush three hives"

    I meant a 60 second victory resulting from the initial rush.
    (In fact i listet single points in the advantages/disadvanteges section)
    And yes it is all about hive rushing, but since you will be forced to rush both hives alone (on most pubs) it is usually a massive res sacrifice.

    BTW what is the console command for the half-life speed o'meter?
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members Posts: 1,432
    My only problem with your strategy is the fact that your only suiciding marine start. I would suggest focusing more on marine expansion on nodes etc.
    All cows are created equal
    e-mail: [email protected]
    R.I.P. -=eR=-
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    saying is kind of easier than doing.

    marines will put up their biggest fight for the second hive to not go up successfully let alone the third.

    oh and btw u don't have to be a vet/clanner to be able to fend off a skulk rushing into ms without getting bitten once.
  • jammnojammno Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25832Members Posts: 304
    When they get armor one (Hopefully before two minutes.) it takes two focus bites. In team play two focus skulks are better than two non-focus skulks, but one non-focus skulk is better than one focus skulk. sad-fix.gif

    I don't have a problem surviving till focus lets me bite them a second time, or just hit/running them to death.

    In pubs most comms rush weapons to survive five minute fades anyway.
    Stats: Kharaa: 24:10 (23:7) [8:2] Frontiersmen: 18:9 (6:18) [34:9]
    Key: - NS wins/losses - (CO wins/losses) - [Perm Gorge/Commander wins/losses]
    Stats only count on plain servers with no crazy modifications.
    Stats updated on weekdays in the morning.
  • taboofirestaboofires Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Members Posts: 2,246
    Rushing weapons upgrades starts with a1. And when it doesn't, it should.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    I do the basics of this strat, although I value a para run or scouting mission over a suicide run. Once MS has thinned out you can rush in and maybe catch the omnipresent builderine who sits in base and puts things together. Nail him and you can force a bit of panic - although if the comm leaves his chair they'll likely both fry you.

    Also note at this point that the team may be recalled to base.. and at the very least its almost guaranteed someone will be screaming over voicecomm or teamsay that base is under attack - which will instantly splinter the team into the "return to base" faction and the "keep going!!" faction.

    If your base raid works you can continue saving for hive, etc. Chamber wise I go with the vote system, usually its DC first but if you can persuade the team to SC then an aggressive early rush by two hive hoarders can result in 3 hives very quickly, and assuming your team can use the chambers properly you should be able to keep a step ahead of any marine research, especially if your team can keep the pressure on.
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    QUOTE (jammno @ Oct 6 2004, 06:54 AM)
    In pubs most comms rush weapons to survive five minute fades anyway.

    even if they do, armor 1 is always still first.

    i tend to find rushing advanced armory is better, and if i have a team who knows what they r doing, then 3-4 shotguns sticking together with weap 0 will always scare/kill the fade.
  • BuggyBuggy Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22400Members, Constellation Posts: 972
    Any comm with half a brain and a decent proportion of skill will probably jump out and grab a comedy knife kill on you, and that's IF you manage to kill all the marines in the first place.
    former lerk and commando of lessthanthree <3
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    QUOTE (Buggy @ Oct 7 2004, 02:52 AM)
    Any comm with half a brain and a decent proportion of skill will probably jump out and grab a comedy knife kill on you, and that's IF you manage to kill all the marines in the first place.

    So you bassically pretend, that a decent comm would knife a skulk even though he has have full lmg/pistol.

    Why does he comm then???
    Just marching towards the hive knifing every skulk who crosses his path and achiving a 20/0 hive-knifed virctory, would benefit the rines much more.

    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    ok maybe the comm can't knife the skulk.

    but the point is that u would rarely get one if any kills if u rush ms even with average players and a decent comm.
  • jammnojammno Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25832Members Posts: 304
    QUOTE (j3st @ Oct 6 2004, 06:32 PM)
    QUOTE (jammno @ Oct 6 2004, 06:54 AM)
    In pubs most comms rush weapons to survive five minute fades anyway.

    even if they do, armor 1 is always still first.

    i tend to find rushing advanced armory is better, and if i have a team who knows what they r doing, then 3-4 shotguns sticking together with weap 0 will always scare/kill the fade.

    Armor 1 should be first, but tons of pubs don't realize that armor 1 gives you another bite to survive.

    They mainly rush weapons 3 and pass out shotties.

    I was in a game where the commander had us (The marines) catalyst / heavy train / welder / knife our way for the win.

    I joined the server and shot a skulk and the comm slayed me and told me to knife for the win. We were all just a knifing heavy train of doom. We even knifed the hive ^^;

    Either the admin abused his power and gave the marines uber resources through cheats or they had been playing normal up until that point.
    Stats: Kharaa: 24:10 (23:7) [8:2] Frontiersmen: 18:9 (6:18) [34:9]
    Key: - NS wins/losses - (CO wins/losses) - [Perm Gorge/Commander wins/losses]
    Stats only count on plain servers with no crazy modifications.
    Stats updated on weekdays in the morning.
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation Posts: 2,462
    I don't know what server you've been playing at, but I've always, without fail, seen armor 1 researched before weapon 1, unless the comm accidentally clicked the wrong thing. Anybody that's not named "NSPlayer" (and then even some of those) know that armor1 lets you survive an extra bite.
    Read my idea on armor!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=90736

    QUOTE (Ambrosek @ Mar 23 2005, 07:53 PM)
    You Can Never Win In Clan Match Which is SC start
  • NuubNuub Join Date: 2004-01-05 Member: 25059Members Posts: 419
    QUOTE (Charge @ Oct 5 2004, 06:50 PM)
    rushing mstart = suicide

    Not true. We won a round in a PCW as aliens on ns_lost by focus rushing them \o/. Shame I dont have a demo right now sad-fix.gif But rushing MS is a working tactic with good team.

    And sensory is a valid chamber, with team who know how to use it for advantage. Or nubpub its quite useless though.


    Enough of that...

    This is a nice guide but you cant die almost at all if you want 40+ res at 2 minute mark. I've seen it happen but it was pure luck (and 3 gorges).
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation Posts: 2,462
    dying=in spawn queue. Spawn queue=not killing=not getting rfk. You really gotta be smart to get lots of res.
    Read my idea on armor!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=90736

    QUOTE (Ambrosek @ Mar 23 2005, 07:53 PM)
    You Can Never Win In Clan Match Which is SC start
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 3,653 mod
    If the marines aren't tards they will shoot you, perhaps even stay guard to kill that one stupid skulk, this tactic isn't that good I think, doing this in a group may work a hell of a lot better.
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members Posts: 3,925
    If you are having any success rushing marine start, mines and/or turrets will be dropped quickly (probably mines). This will make it much more difficult to do anything with this strategy. There is always the possibility of ending the game in 60 seconds, but what fun is that? The only reason I see for doing that is to force the marines to have some base defense the next time. Other than that, the strategy isn't of much use. The general idea of getting a fast second hive is good, though.
    image
    QUOTE(CMEast @ Jun 4 2005, 10:54 AM)
    ... accusations are so... accusing.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    If you've any success rushing marine start then you simply cannot afford to let marines take it back, because they will be as angry as a bunch of hornets who've just had their nest booted around a small room.

    Go in, stay in, if the room's clear then get a gorge in to drop OC which will buy you some breathing space. Para anything trying to leave the room so that you can nip any relocate in the bud.

    Besides, if you've gone for a full on rush offensive (SC and Focus upgrades across the board) then your gorgey should have SoF and be watching for any blips of runaway marines.

    Should the marines actually get to dropping mines, or claw back their spawn, then your rush has FAILED and you need to move to plan B, bearing in mind that the marines will be extremely annoyed and wide awake.
  • HellabeanHellabean Join Date: 2004-06-30 Member: 29644Members Posts: 134
    armor 1>weapons 1 ALWAYS
    imageimageimage
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members Posts: 1,018
    to do the hive rush thing, u have to count on the ppl gorging and getting RTs. some crappy teams r just too selfish to gorge. AND marines might have already taken your res nozzles.
    From the Shadows...
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