Unchaining Chambers...
ModChaosControl
HiveMind NS bot creator Join Date: 2004-03-31 Member: 27613Members
HiveMind NS bot creator Join Date: 2004-03-31 Member: 27613Members
<div class="IPBDescription">... the final straw.</div> Ok, we know, alot of NS Players want the chambers "unchained".
Well, why dont you just download the plugin rather than continuously hastling the rest of the NS community with requests like
"Why dont we unchain the chambers like in that plugin??"
and
"wouldnt it be cool if you could get every upgrade at one hive?"
You can. Use the metamod plugin, join the servers, everybody wins.
If you cant install the plugin, send me the download URL and i'll make an installer for it, no hastle.
Now I've had my rant, I'll probably get flamed but that's a risk i'm willing to take.
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note to moderaters/admins: just my opinion.
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Well, why dont you just download the plugin rather than continuously hastling the rest of the NS community with requests like
"Why dont we unchain the chambers like in that plugin??"
and
"wouldnt it be cool if you could get every upgrade at one hive?"
You can. Use the metamod plugin, join the servers, everybody wins.
If you cant install the plugin, send me the download URL and i'll make an installer for it, no hastle.
Now I've had my rant, I'll probably get flamed but that's a risk i'm willing to take.
`````````````````````````````````````
note to moderaters/admins: just my opinion.
`````````````````````````````````````
Comments
You couldn't post this in the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>27 page long thread</a> about this?
Not everyone has a huge bandwith line and a dedicated server for running this plugin. Therefor, people would rather see it become standard, so all the servers are running the 'plugin'.
How many servers are running it now? Not many I reckon.
How many servers are running it now? Not many I reckon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not done as standard because it's not agreed to be the best way to go. I'm agreed with ModChaosControl actually, if you wish to play 'Unchained' then use the Unchained servers, that's why they run the plugin after all.
Maybe it'll be decided it's a great idea for NS, maybe it won't. It's not for me to say, and it's not my call to make. But until it is, if you want to play Unchained, you have somewhere to go. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Shockwave
I'm quite happy that there are unchained servers, and I exclusively play Classic on them now. But I will actively continue to try and get unchained implimented in standard NS. As will many others. Why? See above.
You obviously didn't play for very long to think that you can get every ability at once. From what statistics have been gathered on the issue, unchained servers were <i>more</i> balanced...
The problem with the plugin is that the game won't ever be balanced around it. That's why we want it implemented rather than just keeping to our own little modified servers; it allows the devs to fine-tune the game to work with it. In other words, it's better off as a feature than a plugin. By your argument, why can't this be patched in and people can write a chained chambers plugin?
exactly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man what crazy servers were you playing on? You get 1 upgrade per hive. You can't select multiple upgrades from the same chamber. And where, perchance, did the mystical res for these chambers come from? If everyone gorged at the start and dropped chambers then your team just handed the game to the marines. If you'd actually played on unchained servers, and from what you said you havn't, you'd see what Zek said: unchaining does more to balance the game than it does to unbalance it.
...assuming they have the res to do so
Its not a matter of <i>balance</i>, its a matter of <i>boredom</i>.
Its not really appealing if every game turns out to be similar because of DMS.
I had my best games during the first few weeks of 2.0 when sensories were common as first chamers.
Games were thrilling and entertaining for both marines and aliens. They were unpredictable. they were fun, more fun than I had since my first games in 1.04.
however, both 1.x and 2.x became quite boring soon, because both versions had their all time winning strats that never changed and applied for <i>every</i> game I played. Same goes for 3.x.
The reason why I still (or more precisely, again) play NS is de facto the unchained plugin.
The devs stated they definately want to solve the DMS issue, however, they don't seem to realize that there is no solution to the problem as long as the aliens have to choose one upgrade over the others.
They tried several time to boost SC as a possible first chamber. Cloakwalking, SoF which shows all marines (not just the injured ones like in 1.04) , focus...
SC is <i>made</i> to be first chamber. Yet, nobody takes it, because regen is best.
The very moment you either beef one chamber to a point it exeeds DC in usefullness, or nerf DCs accordingly, you will achieve nothing but a new choice of chambers. SDM for example.
Its not a matter of <i>balance</i>, its a matter of <i>boredom</i>.
Its not really appealing if every game turns out to be similar because of DMS.
I had my best games during the first few weeks of 2.0 when sensories were common as first chamers.
Games were thrilling and entertaining for both marines and aliens. They were unpredictable. they were fun, more fun than I had since my first games in 1.04.
however, both 1.x and 2.x became quite boring soon, because both versions had their all time winning strats that never changed and applied for <i>every</i> game I played. Same goes for 3.x.
The reason why I still (or more precisely, again) play NS is de facto the unchained plugin.
The devs stated they definately want to solve the DMS issue, however, they don't seem to realize that there is no solution to the problem as long as the aliens have to choose one upgrade over the others.
They tried several time to boost SC as a possible first chamber. Cloakwalking, SoF which shows all marines (not just the injured ones like in 1.04) , focus...
SC is <i>made</i> to be first chamber. Yet, nobody takes it, because regen is best.
The very moment you either beef one chamber to a point it exeeds DC in usefullness, or nerf DCs accordingly, you will achieve nothing but a new choice of chambers. SDM for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care about your memories, although chained chambers ... rule.
Bit of a sweeping statement, isn't it? DMS is an issue, and it's one I know the PT group all chatter about when we tend to come together. That doesn't necessarily mean the only solution is you <b>MUST</b> unchain the chambers.
What we don't want is NS to become completely obsessive about res-nodes, and hives become an afterthought you build because you're not a good Fade but have 50 res spare in the bank.
Just because everyone doesn't jump on Unchained as the Holy Grail & leap around, waving it in the air proclaiming everything resolved, doesn't mean it's not noticed, nor that the Dev group do not care. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Shockwave
Its not a matter of <i>balance</i>, its a matter of <i>boredom</i>.
Its not really appealing if every game turns out to be similar because of DMS.
I had my best games during the first few weeks of 2.0 when sensories were common as first chamers.
Games were thrilling and entertaining for both marines and aliens. They were unpredictable. they were fun, more fun than I had since my first games in 1.04.
however, both 1.x and 2.x became quite boring soon, because both versions had their all time winning strats that never changed and applied for <i>every</i> game I played. Same goes for 3.x.
The reason why I still (or more precisely, again) play NS is de facto the unchained plugin.
The devs stated they definately want to solve the DMS issue, however, they don't seem to realize that there is no solution to the problem as long as the aliens have to choose one upgrade over the others.
They tried several time to boost SC as a possible first chamber. Cloakwalking, SoF which shows all marines (not just the injured ones like in 1.04) , focus...
SC is <i>made</i> to be first chamber. Yet, nobody takes it, because regen is best.
The very moment you either beef one chamber to a point it exeeds DC in usefullness, or nerf DCs accordingly, you will achieve nothing but a new choice of chambers. SDM for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care about your memories, although chained chambers ... <b>rule</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Negative..
Movements were five res, defense chambers were ten, and sensory chambers were fifteen.
With one hive, I was able to gestate three times as a skulk and I got focus, celerity, carapace.
This was with one hive.
But, if you guys are talking about somthing else, then don't mind me.
If you guys are sick of defense first, go gorge and drop sensory first. Simple. That's what I do. Defense first is garbage in my opinion. Just use gorges to heal.
Movements were five res, defense chambers were ten, and sensory chambers were fifteen.
With one hive, I was able to gestate three times as a skulk and I got focus, celerity, carapace.
This was with one hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not the 'standard' unchained plugin. You can only get one upgrade per hive, one upgrade of each type, etc.
A server that runs it or the actual plugin?
<a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550</a>
Maybe the NS dev's could intergrate this plugin into the main NS code, but not make it standard, and you could enter 'toggle_unchained' in the console to toggle whether it is on or not.
Its not a matter of <i>balance</i>, its a matter of <i>boredom</i>.
Its not really appealing if every game turns out to be similar because of DMS.
I had my best games during the first few weeks of 2.0 when sensories were common as first chamers.
Games were thrilling and entertaining for both marines and aliens. They were unpredictable. they were fun, more fun than I had since my first games in 1.04.
however, both 1.x and 2.x became quite boring soon, because both versions had their all time winning strats that never changed and applied for <i>every</i> game I played. Same goes for 3.x.
The reason why I still (or more precisely, again) play NS is de facto the unchained plugin.
The devs stated they definately want to solve the DMS issue, however, they don't seem to realize that there is no solution to the problem as long as the aliens have to choose one upgrade over the others.
They tried several time to boost SC as a possible first chamber. Cloakwalking, SoF which shows all marines (not just the injured ones like in 1.04) , focus...
SC is <i>made</i> to be first chamber. Yet, nobody takes it, because regen is best.
The very moment you either beef one chamber to a point it exeeds DC in usefullness, or nerf DCs accordingly, you will achieve nothing but a new choice of chambers. SDM for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care about your memories, although chained chambers ... rule. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you wonder why people end up flaming you Thursday, it's crap like
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't care about your memories<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which in essence means
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't care about your opinions<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not too great an attitude for a discussion forum <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Not to mention you're not even discussing anything here, I don't even think you read what he wrote. Why exactly do you WANT to keep it so that every game basically starts out the same way? Like Legat said, unless the chambers are perfectly balanced, then one chamber will always be preferred as the starting chamber. It makes no sense to have the adaptive race locked into an upgrade path so early in the game, completely unable to break out of it until roughly the 7 minute mark.
And uniformed opinions are invalid as well, though of course it'd not your fault. Just in case anyone else doesn't know what is meant by "unchained plugin", it lets you build all 3 chambers at any time, but you're only able to get one upgrade per hive, one upgrade of each type.
In addition, the first chamber type dropped always costs 10 resources, the second generally costs 15 and the third type costs 20 (this is on the unchained server I sometimes play on). That means if you drop a dc first, it will cost 10. An sc next will cost 15, and a mc last will cost 20. The second dc will still cost 10, the second sc 15, the second mc 20. Once the second hive gets up, dcs will cost 10, scs 10, and mcs 15. At 3 hives, all chambers cost 10. That's the most balanced version I've seen so far, anyone seen any better versions?
I don't like the idea, at least, the way the plug-in is set up. Sure, the idea of all 3 upgrades available at the same time with one hive is nice, but only one upgrade per hive? Imagine this:
You have Maint and CC, rines have Eclipse. You have all chambers. You're a skulk with 54 res. A swift JP rush attacks Maint. You are in CC. You figure you ought to fade to help with CC hive defense. As soon as you're done gestating, you go for your adrenaline to get in those never-ending swipes. While you're gestating, you lose Maint. However, all three DC's are in CC. You go to evolve regen, and boom, you can't. You only have one hive. You have allllll the chambers, but one hive. GG. -That- idea I don't like. Just my opinion.
I'm actually all for chaining lifeforms as well.
It just all requires the necessary thought and playtesting to get it balanced, so we don't have aliens owning marines like earlier versions.
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just because everyone doesn't jump on Unchained as the Holy Grail & leap around, waving it in the air proclaiming everything resolved, doesn't mean it's not noticed, nor that the Dev group do not care. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Hives will always be the most important, especially Hive2. Leap, Umbra, Stomp, Meta, and Bile are all just amazingly good abilities WELL WORTH the cost of the hive. Not only that, with the proposed unchained chambers idea, you'd be able to get Focus as Fade (with Regen at Hive1) and that's unbelievably useful too. If anything this might make the 2nd Hive more important (as you can get Focus/Regen Fades instead of Celerity/Regen Fades).
Leap alone is a game winner