Usa Imperialism
the_x5
the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">us vs. the world</div> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It takes two to tango<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone can agree that terrorism is a horrible crime. Taking a cue from my mother social work I have begun to realize how "putting the squeeze" on people can help encourge them to snap. I'm not trying to make this into a political discussion although I already know this topic will swing that way. But I want to warn people that when ever you make an our way is the right way into an us versus them conflict is inevitable. This case is particularly interesting because while terrorism shares many traits with crimes, it is also politically and ideaology like any violent conflict.
My question is have you ever questioned that an America versus the world attitude is quite similar to imperialism?
Let's run though some definitions:
<!--QuoteBegin-m-w.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (m-w.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Main Entry: im·pe·ri·al·ism
Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence <union imperialism><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-http://web.isp.cz/jcrane/Glossary.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://web.isp.cz/jcrane/Glossary.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Imperialism: national policy of conquest of other regions or peoples for the purpose of extending political and economic control and of exploiting the resources of other regions or people.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As any good karateman should, I always try to solve conflict at the lowest cause possible. You always try to resolve the cause and not the symptoms. I have wondered why the US feels the need to be involved in being a global police force and impose our morals ad culture on others regardless if they want it or not. I mean isn't the UN supposed to run global security and human rights? What was it founded for then? What about NATO? I mean if the USA wants allies shouldn't they be teamworking instead of the USA acting like a marine Rambo in NS?
Interesting...
What do you think is the reason behind this imperialism sentiment carried by some Americans? Pehaps it is left over from the past when the USA preached <a href='http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/dialogues/prelude/manifest/manifestdestiny.html' target='_blank'>Manifest Destiny</a> as it went to gain territory of its own. How many of you have studied the history of Texas. Did you know that the US goverment secretly funded several rogues in hopes that the US could gain the territory. Did you also know that Florida was given to th US in attempts to make a contact that we won't get Texas? Maybe I'm off topic in the past. How many of you remember that we helped Saddam (who I personally hate) to get in power in the first place? I worry that the decisions of the people who represent us today are not thinking of the long term consequences.
In an age of much turmoil and confusion it is easy to get caught up in news that has a biased spin to it. It's only human so there's nothing really abnormal with it. But I feel it is important to get the whole picture so I have begun to look more and more to international impartial new sources so i can get a more objective view.
I realize I'm making a bold statement by warning my fellow Americans against an imperialist attitiude which will anger many people. Unfortunately it is becomming more and more true. I wonder why we lingering onthe border of a new age of imperialism. Is it natural? Is it just part of human nature? I am irritated that our planet is so entrenched in our differences that we only invest in major exploration when it is a competition.
<span style='color:gray'>I have been wanting to post this for more than a month but was afraid to because I don't know if people can discuss such hard issues without letting emotion get in the way. I don't know if people can stop and wonder if their way is the right way and be open minded. This is not an easy subject, I will see if you all are really mature enough to discuss this open-mindedly when I click the "post new topic" button below.</span>
<span style='color:green'>*plays song: Hoobastank -- Same Direction*</span>
Discuss.
Everyone can agree that terrorism is a horrible crime. Taking a cue from my mother social work I have begun to realize how "putting the squeeze" on people can help encourge them to snap. I'm not trying to make this into a political discussion although I already know this topic will swing that way. But I want to warn people that when ever you make an our way is the right way into an us versus them conflict is inevitable. This case is particularly interesting because while terrorism shares many traits with crimes, it is also politically and ideaology like any violent conflict.
My question is have you ever questioned that an America versus the world attitude is quite similar to imperialism?
Let's run though some definitions:
<!--QuoteBegin-m-w.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (m-w.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Main Entry: im·pe·ri·al·ism
Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence <union imperialism><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-http://web.isp.cz/jcrane/Glossary.html+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://web.isp.cz/jcrane/Glossary.html)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Imperialism: national policy of conquest of other regions or peoples for the purpose of extending political and economic control and of exploiting the resources of other regions or people.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As any good karateman should, I always try to solve conflict at the lowest cause possible. You always try to resolve the cause and not the symptoms. I have wondered why the US feels the need to be involved in being a global police force and impose our morals ad culture on others regardless if they want it or not. I mean isn't the UN supposed to run global security and human rights? What was it founded for then? What about NATO? I mean if the USA wants allies shouldn't they be teamworking instead of the USA acting like a marine Rambo in NS?
Interesting...
What do you think is the reason behind this imperialism sentiment carried by some Americans? Pehaps it is left over from the past when the USA preached <a href='http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/dialogues/prelude/manifest/manifestdestiny.html' target='_blank'>Manifest Destiny</a> as it went to gain territory of its own. How many of you have studied the history of Texas. Did you know that the US goverment secretly funded several rogues in hopes that the US could gain the territory. Did you also know that Florida was given to th US in attempts to make a contact that we won't get Texas? Maybe I'm off topic in the past. How many of you remember that we helped Saddam (who I personally hate) to get in power in the first place? I worry that the decisions of the people who represent us today are not thinking of the long term consequences.
In an age of much turmoil and confusion it is easy to get caught up in news that has a biased spin to it. It's only human so there's nothing really abnormal with it. But I feel it is important to get the whole picture so I have begun to look more and more to international impartial new sources so i can get a more objective view.
I realize I'm making a bold statement by warning my fellow Americans against an imperialist attitiude which will anger many people. Unfortunately it is becomming more and more true. I wonder why we lingering onthe border of a new age of imperialism. Is it natural? Is it just part of human nature? I am irritated that our planet is so entrenched in our differences that we only invest in major exploration when it is a competition.
<span style='color:gray'>I have been wanting to post this for more than a month but was afraid to because I don't know if people can discuss such hard issues without letting emotion get in the way. I don't know if people can stop and wonder if their way is the right way and be open minded. This is not an easy subject, I will see if you all are really mature enough to discuss this open-mindedly when I click the "post new topic" button below.</span>
<span style='color:green'>*plays song: Hoobastank -- Same Direction*</span>
Discuss.
Comments
As for the UN.
There comes a time when you have to stand behind your words. To pass resolutions that use the threat of harsh consequences, than to have those harsh consequences be another resolution stating the same thing is stupid. Make no mistake, every nation in the UN is looking out for number 1 first. France was not going to vote for action, and pending investigations into the oil for food program could provide us with reasons. Germany and Russia were making money off arms deals to Sadam, hence their veto. Kofeanen (or however you spell it) is an idiot, nuff said.
That said the US should not pull out of the UN.
If that wasn't it, then I don't understand what you're trying to argue here. How does a century and a half old policy and the annexation of texas have to do with America today? Is there some underlying logic or message that I'm not getting? Should I listen to someone who enjoys Hoobastank?!
How you ask?
End of ww2, take over europe, finish off russia, and make japan bend to your knees
Then you are the only power with the atom bomb
Then you basically just say gg
Be patriotic (Antony : patriotism is first sign of the angry) You not going live through it's consquences and it is a character building exercise for any country.
it defines a country personality. Once it is over you will just get invaded.
Be patriotic (Antony : patriotism is first sign of the angry) You not going live through it's consquences and it is a character building exercise for any country.
it defines a country personality. Once it is over you will just get invaded. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I created thread, not for the sake of arguement but rather to point out some thing which I find interesting and think are worth taking a open-minded read though whether you agree or not. This way you can't feign ignorance.
The above quotation is an example of what I am concerned about. I think oppressing other people or killing them because they don't agree with you that your way is the only way. It's this attitude of I have the correct answer and you must follow that is soo wrong. If you are one of those kind of people that believe in a universal spirit like God you should at least recognize that it doesn't matter how you believe or what you believe or what you look like or what you culture is but that we are all in this grand scheme of creation together.
I think it's part of out animalistic nature to dominate rather than share and love but as a lifeform with a wonderful gift of sentience and conciousness we should start trying to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And for that reason I think an imperialistic attitude is wrong.
No one's being ignorant, but you sound suspiciously like you have NO CLUE as to what you're talking about.
No one's being ignorant, but you sound suspiciously like you have NO CLUE as to what you're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
what about korea or vietnam?
If we had wone, would we still maitain control over the country?
The correct answer would be:
No we would have left, just as we have done countless other times.
If we had wone, would we still maitain control over the country?
The correct answer would be:
No we would have left, just as we have done countless other times. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to clarify even further. The answer would be:
After the war is over, we would spend billions of dollars rebuilding their infrastructure, startup their industry, try and establish a democracy, feed their citizens and when they are all fine and dandy........we set up an embassy and leave.
Knowing what we do about past imperial successes and failures and the deep psychological and social scarring left upon post-colonial, post-independence developing nations, is America's current willingness to exert its overwhelming military and economic might around the world a good strategy for America to achieve its goals?
If we had wone, would we still maitain control over the country?
The correct answer would be:
No we would have left, just as we have done countless other times. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to clarify even further. The answer would be:
After the war is over, we would spend billions of dollars rebuilding their infrastructure, startup their industry, try and establish a democracy, feed their citizens and when they are all fine and dandy........we set up an embassy and leave. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite not littering or taking anything significant from a forest which you walk through, you will still leave behind your footprints.
I have yet to see evidence that shows clear benefits to any "targets" of imperialism. I think that imperialism is a great tool to protect the interests of specific powers, but as a tool to improve the lives of those living in less powerful countries or regions, it has a miserable track record.
And while you may joke about "cutural heritage", in many societies (including Western societies) the loss of cultural identity and any dynamic changes in ways of life would be very traumatic.
Korea? Is that North or South?
And we dominated them? We saved them from the murderers to the north.
And yeah, Vietnam sure is doing great since we left!
Korea? Is that North or South?
And we dominated them? We saved them from the murderers to the north.
And yeah, Vietnam sure is doing great since we left! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
othell speaks the truth.
OT: othell, do you still lead CAL-NS?
Brad now leads CAL-NS.
Muahahahahaahahahahahaha.
Capitalist Re-education threads will be appearing over the next few days for the recently conquered Socialists. Keep checking back for details!
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personally I disagree. I don't think imperialism is fine. We will never unite as a planet if we continue a foreign policy of imperialism. (use Europe for an example)
I also like what Special K said.
Which countries do you think I am talking about? Does it even matter?
I made several just plain old statements of interest in my first post on this thread you all apparently didn't <i>really</i> read. War and conflict always has side effects. Women being raped, dreams being ruined, things getting destroyed, children starving, people crying, etc. I wanted to make this thread as a kind of warning for those who ignore the cries and stand complacent or ignorant of the suffering even seemingly just decisions can bring. The choice to kill and destroy is not one that should be taken so casually. I wish to disillusion people on both sides of the conflict and beg them to think about the wisdom behind their actions.
Which countries do you think I am talking about? Does it even matter? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it's in human nature to take what we want, when we can. Peace doesn't come naturally to us. It's only in the last century that we've moved towards making a lasting peace.
You haven't really answered the replies regarding Iraq, Vietnam or Korea, so I was wondering if you meant somewhere else. Is America truely an empire? Does it want to be?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I made several just plain old statements of interest in my first post on this thread you all apparently didn't <i>really</i> read. War and conflict always has side effects. Women being raped, dreams being ruined, things getting destroyed, children starving, people crying, etc. I wanted to make this thread as a kind of warning for those who ignore the cries and stand complacent or ignorant of the suffering even seemingly just decisions can bring. The choice to kill and destroy is not one that should be taken so casually. I wish to disillusion people on both sides of the conflict and beg them to think about the wisdom behind their actions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you <i>really</i> think going to war is a "casual decision"?
Government Underling: What do you want to do tonight, Bush?
Bush: <b>Try to take over the world!</b>
...I think not.
Bush: <b>Try to take over the world!</b>
...I think not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though I know it's not like that, but the people with our military occupying their nation may not.
I know it's near impossible to get a balanced new source with all the full. And I know Bush is a nice guy who wants what's best for th US and world peace (from one person's point of view) but know that war and occupation are not very convincing from the receiving side's point of view.
<!--QuoteBegin-Native American proverb+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Native American proverb)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So not judge a man until you walk three moons in his moccasins<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In other words, try to always consider things from other people's point of view.
<!--QuoteBegin-you said+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (you said)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because it's in human nature to take what we want, when we can. Peace doesn't come naturally to us. It's only in the last century that we've moved towards making a lasting peace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree with this being the past tense on humanity. We have the ability to evolve to a better existence, why do we not choose to be better. Jesus thought we could. (sorry to throw a religious allusion in, it was appropiate. You can ignore it if it insults your beliefs or you don't like Jesus)
Anyways something I want to present to Mr. Wheee in particular:
<!--QuoteBegin-Trigun+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trigun)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"When something is gained, something is always lost. It's impossible to live without facing that fact. What is lost will never return. Important things. Irreplaceable things. The things necessary to protect those things. The firm determination packed into a bullet. Man knows... knows that nothing will begin unless he speaks. That nothing will change unless he moves."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And we dominated them? We saved them from the murderers to the north.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if those murderers weren't communists supported by China and the Soviet Union, would the United States have acted the same way? The United States primary goal in Vietnam wasn't to protect the lives of South Vietnamese civilians but to adhere to the ideas laid out in the Truman Doctrine.
Snideley
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is America truely an empire? Does it want to be?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like it or not, almost every country or region around the world has a stake in seeing America's continued economic success. The United States has economic interests in almost every part of the globe and the military to back those interests. Decisions made in Washington can have dramatic impacts all over the world. But truely deciding whether the US is an empire or not would depend on your definition I guess.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you really think going to war is a "casual decision"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not saying going to war is a casual decision; he's saying that going to war should be more serious than it is now. I agree. There was no clear benefit to anyone by invading Iraq, nor was there after going to war against North Vietnam. Had more consideration been given to the situation, these disasters could have been avoided.
He's not saying going to war is a casual decision; he's saying that going to war should be more serious than it is now. I agree. There was no clear benefit to anyone by invading Iraq, nor was there after going to war against North Vietnam. Had more consideration been given to the situation, these disasters could have been avoided. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, but yes. I wasn't trying to draw specific historical examples as my intention here is to try to disillusion rather than to argue.
<!--QuoteBegin-PM to me+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PM to me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Political disasters have certain similarities with engineering disasters<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting observation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And we dominated them? We saved them from the murderers to the north.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if those murderers weren't communists supported by China and the Soviet Union, would the United States have acted the same way? The United States primary goal in Vietnam wasn't to protect the lives of South Vietnamese civilians but to adhere to the ideas laid out in the Truman Doctrine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hold on, in both cases a soverign nation (South Korea and South Vietnam) was defending itself from an agressive "foreign" power. Can you think of any case in the last century where America <i>didn't</i> intervene in a case like this?
Tripoli. Part of the Marines' song. Look it up. Discuss similarities with current involvement with "soverign" nations.
<ul><li>Off-topic. </li><li>Read my first post.</li><li>I love USA, will die for my rights, and am avid supporter of the military</li></ul>
(but that doesn't mean I don't liek how it is being used, would much rahter the military be used like Stargate SG-1/Atlantis)