The Combat Onos
Toothy
ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">I believe it's overpowered</div> Please forgive me if I've posted in the wrong place or it's already been discussed, but I couldn't find it mentioned yet.
As we all know, the Onos carapace was increased to 950 in beta 5. The redemption chance was also increased to 45% per second in beta 5.
In NS, this was good.
In Combat, I believe it has made the Onos far too powerful.
It can have regeneration, redemption, and carapace. This means it requires 100 L3 HMG bullets to kill (90 to kill, but extra 10 allowing for regen while damage is taken).
However, after 50 bullets, the hive will attempt to redeem the Onos. This means that half-way through killing the onos, it will most likely disappear.
On *most* combat maps, the onos will be able to completely regen itself after redemption and with celerity, be back at Marine start only a few seconds after the marine(s) have reloaded their HMG's after the first attack.
One Onos isn't a problem, two Onoses are. Three Onoses are an even bigger problem, and 4 Onoses = game.
Even level 3 LMG bullets, it requires 200 of them to kill the Onos. After only 100, again, halfway to death, it will be redeemed. I realise that Onos comeback is slow because they have to re-gestate every time, but this simply does not balance out. Onoses can take incredible amounts of damage now in Combat with their new Carapace level, but it's the simple fact that they are almost unkillable with redemption that takes the cake.
Enter into the equation the relatively low level of teamwork in Combat, if there are multiple Onoses then marines will almost certainly not all target the same one.
Thus, my observation is that the Onos with all three defence upgrades is far too powerful in combat, since it practically cannot be killed. If I am merely being naive and someone knows of a decent way for them to be kill then please enlighten me (bear in mind I realise that 1 onos is easily killable, but in multiples it becomes virtually impossible).
Imagine two Onoses, the sheer number of bullets from any of the weapons required to make them redeem is incredible. Then, the Onos is redeemed, hurrah! However, at that point the fades, lerks, and skulks move in. If by some miracle the marines manage to deal with them, then hurrah for them. However, they will NOT HAVE TIME TO RELOAD properly before the Onoses that redeemed make their comeback.
Sorry for such a long post, but I do feel they're a little too powerful <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thanks for reading
As we all know, the Onos carapace was increased to 950 in beta 5. The redemption chance was also increased to 45% per second in beta 5.
In NS, this was good.
In Combat, I believe it has made the Onos far too powerful.
It can have regeneration, redemption, and carapace. This means it requires 100 L3 HMG bullets to kill (90 to kill, but extra 10 allowing for regen while damage is taken).
However, after 50 bullets, the hive will attempt to redeem the Onos. This means that half-way through killing the onos, it will most likely disappear.
On *most* combat maps, the onos will be able to completely regen itself after redemption and with celerity, be back at Marine start only a few seconds after the marine(s) have reloaded their HMG's after the first attack.
One Onos isn't a problem, two Onoses are. Three Onoses are an even bigger problem, and 4 Onoses = game.
Even level 3 LMG bullets, it requires 200 of them to kill the Onos. After only 100, again, halfway to death, it will be redeemed. I realise that Onos comeback is slow because they have to re-gestate every time, but this simply does not balance out. Onoses can take incredible amounts of damage now in Combat with their new Carapace level, but it's the simple fact that they are almost unkillable with redemption that takes the cake.
Enter into the equation the relatively low level of teamwork in Combat, if there are multiple Onoses then marines will almost certainly not all target the same one.
Thus, my observation is that the Onos with all three defence upgrades is far too powerful in combat, since it practically cannot be killed. If I am merely being naive and someone knows of a decent way for them to be kill then please enlighten me (bear in mind I realise that 1 onos is easily killable, but in multiples it becomes virtually impossible).
Imagine two Onoses, the sheer number of bullets from any of the weapons required to make them redeem is incredible. Then, the Onos is redeemed, hurrah! However, at that point the fades, lerks, and skulks move in. If by some miracle the marines manage to deal with them, then hurrah for them. However, they will NOT HAVE TIME TO RELOAD properly before the Onoses that redeemed make their comeback.
Sorry for such a long post, but I do feel they're a little too powerful <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thanks for reading
Comments
I like how you can say that a cara regen Onos takes 100 HMG bullets to be killed. You make it sound like that is a ridiculously large number. I'm sorry, but it is the other way around.
Combat, Classic, a marine with Level 3 HMG and a jetpack has an extremely high potential in killing an Onos who has regen/cara/both. That's one on one. I'm sorry, but the Onos is supposed to be this supreme evolution thing. Why, might I ask, can it barely hold even with a top equipped marine? This problem is exponentially increased when the basis of the game is applied; marine teamwork.
A good way to "balance" combat would be by giving each life-form a time value...this value is added to the time the player has to need to respawn, and it will purely depend on what kind of lifeform he was...
If a player died as an onos, he'd for instance get an additional 5-6 seconds in the spawn queue...fades would get a 3-4 second penalty etc...skulks..none...etc...
Take redemption out of combat, or make it cost 2 points, its a simple, but effective fix.
And maybe make redem just a bit more reliable. Some games I can keep dying to just one solo HMGer, where other games I'll keep getting redemed when most of the marine team is shooting me. More reliable in maybe like it looks at OVERALL hitpoints, not just the health.
always
If he has redeem get near the hive where the onos is and finish him off, and he's screwed.
Next, the combat onos isn't even overpowered compared to the fade or webs or xeno
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with many onos is that once the onos dies he has to re-evolve for a long time to get back into the action<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But surely, since there are multiple onos, the aliens aren't totally doomed while one guy regestates? And if he has redemption he's unlikely to die in the first place...
And you're not getting anywhere near the hive if 2 onos have any say in it. Although that would depend on the circumstances, like which map, and how many players...
JP HMG can completely destroy an onos, and if it does not (ie: redeemed), then he's back at the hive healing. So long as webs aren't present, in most cases it's not too hard to rush the hive and finish off the Onos.
On top of that, JP HMG make excellent hit and run attacks on the hive to kill off gestating players.
If players still spawned as onos, then I would agree it's a bit much, but in it's current state I think it's fine.
no **** sherlock
But I guess its one of the ONLY topics I have ever seen that said it was too powerful.
If he has redeem get near the hive where the onos is and finish him off, and he's screwed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that wont happen, except on small co maps, to much distance to travel. i have also seen onos devour 1 marine get redeemed and land directly on a waiting marine and devour him almost instantly right next to the hive. then the poor saps that run in to finish it get trashed by the said onos who is back near full hp. i suppose it depends on your skill level and team/teamwork
If you're fighting against an onos with one or two upgrades, just keep chasing after him. He's big, runs slow, and isn't as strong as you think.
But I guess its one of the ONLY topics I have ever seen that said it was too powerful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol yeah, we were complaining when it was too weak and now its coz its too strong <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wow, terrific ego-stroke there. Now enough about you. How about the rest of the pub oni that aint that l3370r as compared to you? Or about the "3|337" jetpackers on a similar skill level with you that mow down kharaa like an angry mob?
Less ego more reality.
Wow, terrific ego-stroke there. Now enough about you. How about the rest of the pub oni that aint that l3370r as compared to you? Or about the "3|337" jetpackers on a similar skill level with you that mow down kharaa like an angry mob?
Less ego more reality. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats leet at being onos? Its the most nub friendly lifeforms the aliens have. Lets see
- Insane amounts of health.
With redemption, carpace and regen you are nearly invincible against less than 3 hmg marines.
- Stomp/Devour
You practically get an area of effect weapon that requires minimum amounts of skill to use (just look in their general direction) with an instagib feature. How hard is it to eat a marine that cant move? Ok picking JP out of the air is a little harder but not that much. Just gore them if its too hard for you.
- You´re huge. Ns is composed mostly of low ceilings and narrow corridors. No way a JP can slip past you there. Just spam gore and again point in his general direction. If you hit his aim is totally thrown off and if not for knockback there is about half a second where he cant gain any upward thrust if he tries to take off again. It totally messes up his JP.
Onos is insanely easy to play right. Fading and skulking requires 100 times more skill. The only thing to remember as an onos is to use the corridors to your advantage if there are more than 3 marines. Else just rush, stomp, eat the first gore the second and the 3. hasn´t enough firepower once he can move again so just gore him or toy around with stomp to give the late joiners something to chew at.
There are very few places on any of the combat maps where JP'ers can safely fly out of the way of Onoses.
A good way to "balance" combat would be by giving each life-form a time value...this value is added to the time the player has to need to respawn, and it will purely depend on what kind of lifeform he was...
If a player died as an onos, he'd for instance get an additional 5-6 seconds in the spawn queue...fades would get a 3-4 second penalty etc...skulks..none...etc... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. Finally someone else sees the light. With this system we could drop the entirely undesirable evolution time (which is dull and usually pointless) and instead give the marines an advantage based on the quality of the kill.
Of course, there could well be a good coding reason why this is unfeasible.
Granted, in some of the levels, an Onos train is quite unstoppable <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo--> x4