Alien Commander

Cataclysmic_DesiresCataclysmic_Desires Join Date: 2003-03-29 Member: 15017Members Posts: 30
I just had an amazing game last night on NS_Lost as aliens... all because we had a commander. Now some of you may be sitting their thinking I'm all whack, "aliens don't have a commander, rines do", but it is quite the contrary.
I have found that when an alien force is fighting a skilled commander with rines that follow his orders that aliens have one of two choices.
1.) Run around and do what they want, which is what most pub alien forces do, and eventually lose because they have no plan of attack.
OR
2.) Allow one or two players to act as an artificial "commander". This alien commander does just as what the rine commander does, Call out the shots. Tell gorges where to build, what hive to build next, what chambers to put up. Tell the fades key choke points to take down, harassing the base, RT destroying runs, etc.
--I hope this is sort of making sense--
Back to last night, we (the aliens) were up against a skilled Rine team. Constantly being bombarded by phase, siege, jp attacks... and sometimes two simaltaneously... the only reason we survived was of our "artificial commander(s)".

I took it upon myself to coordinate base hits.... most of which were to draw the marines back to base by use of their OBs. This in turn would allow the remaining alien team to take down the PG, TF, and other junk.

Another player was more along the lines the defensive commander... he told all aliens where the attacks were coming from, where to go, and what ono(s)/fade(s) should go and try to reclaim a hive.

Ultimatly in the end we won, we had more RTs and outlasted their attacks and drove them into their base.
Ingame Name: =*Z?*= Cataclyzm

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Comments

  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation Posts: 961 Fully active user
    This is how competitive ns works, one person on aliens calls the shots and directs everyone where to go.
    [NAPT]
  • WarningForeverWarningForever Join Date: 2004-05-06 Member: 28503Members Posts: 121
    Quite true, you can call the shots in NS as aliens. If marines are a dictatorship, aliens are a democracy, you need to agree on the best plan of action if you wish to unite and win.

    Simply suggest (Yell) at your alien teamates where to go and why (cause we'll lose the game NOOB).
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  • Fat_Man_Little_CoatFat_Man_Little_Coat Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members Posts: 197 Fully active user
    Call me crazy, but isn't this generally what they call teamwork?
    And since most teams usually require a leader it's only appropriate that there's one for this particualr game as well.


    It saddens me that this is considered unusual for this game.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    it helps alot if you have someone shouting in a mic in clear language what to do.

    Now if that someone is either admin or has a icon before hsi name it helps.
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  • NadagastNadagast Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6884Members Posts: 823
    Anyone who likes actual teamwork, like they described should check out joining a NS clan. It's organized teamplay at it's best smile-fix.gif
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    Anyone who likes the challenge of moulding together a crack team from a gang of NSplayers should check out pub play. Its rewarding gameplay at its best. And a different game every time!








    .......well..... if we're going to blow trumpets and make grand sweeping oversimplifications, then lets push the boat all the way out eh?
  • SnapShotSnapShot Join Date: 2003-04-09 Member: 15345Members Posts: 30
    It's called..




    Teamwork.
  • NadagastNadagast Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6884Members Posts: 823
    QUOTE (Necrosis @ Sep 23 2004, 03:55 PM)
    Anyone who likes the challenge of moulding together a crack team from a gang of NSplayers should check out pub play. Its rewarding gameplay at its best. And a different game every time

    those pubs sure do have elite teamwork
  • AjurianAjurian Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21753Members Posts: 234
    I was just about to make a thread on this myself.

    My experience of Alien commanding came about from a game where I had an extremely high amount of lag. My solution was to go gorge in the hive and have the minimap up all the time (except for when I moved to drop a chamber or to look around to see what node was under attack). Doing this I kept the team informed on what was going on and gave directions accordingly. I didnt "order" them, just let them know that something needed doing. In a way it was more of an extended hive mind and it kept the chatter down.

    Yes this is teamwork as it requires a team that can listen, communicate, and respond accordingly, but isnt that similar to the marines? (in that marines wont always listen, follow waypoints, etc)
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    hahah yup it's just teamwork and should be all devised beforehand in tournaments.

    however in pub games, it does help to have an experienced person as the 'commander'. if they listen to u at all, that is.
  • AlkillerAlkiller Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28847Members Posts: 1,124
    backseat commander ftw
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  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members Posts: 1,007
    QUOTE (Nadagast @ Sep 25 2004, 07:14 PM)
    QUOTE (Necrosis @ Sep 23 2004, 03:55 PM)
    Anyone who likes the challenge of moulding together a crack team from a gang of NSplayers should check out pub play. Its rewarding gameplay at its best. And a different game every time

    those pubs sure do have elite teamwork

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    Good thread!?
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    QUOTE

    those pubs sure do have elite teamwork


    I'll think you'll find its a lot harder to win with a gang of individuals as opposed to a group of drones with whom you've decided the strategy in advance.

    Pug/Scrim/Clan play might be the more "realistic" option, in that just like real life you're going in with a battle plan and a team. However, pub play is infinitely more fun because its unpredictable. On-the-fly commanding, a diverse mix of skills, very little clue as to your opponents "form". Each game is different, with different strategies, not the same stale gameplay.

    I find it quite liberating. But its not for everyone, and only an idiot would state that one is definitively better than the other.
  • murphyt4murphyt4 Join Date: 2003-12-12 Member: 24297Members, Constellation Posts: 131 Advanced user
    interesting stratagy
  • NadagastNadagast Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6884Members Posts: 823
    edited September 2004
    QUOTE (Necrosis @ Sep 26 2004, 11:21 AM)
    QUOTE

    those pubs sure do have elite teamwork


    I'll think you'll find its a lot harder to win with a gang of individuals as opposed to a group of drones with whom you've decided the strategy in advance.

    Pug/Scrim/Clan play might be the more "realistic" option, in that just like real life you're going in with a battle plan and a team. However, pub play is infinitely more fun because its unpredictable. On-the-fly commanding, a diverse mix of skills, very little clue as to your opponents "form". Each game is different, with different strategies, not the same stale gameplay.

    I find it quite liberating. But its not for everyone, and only an idiot would state that one is definitively better than the other.

    Amazingly I don't remember saying one was definitively better than the other. I do know that teamwork is much higher in clanplay though... which is what this topic is about.

    Nice try to rail me for no reason though.

    also... I think it's a lot harder to win a clan match than a pub
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members Posts: 1,119
    edited September 2004
    Nec: Judging from your post i'd say you were never in a clan and if you were i dunno WTH was going on in it. Most pre match planning goes as far as who will be doing what task, the overall start (dc first, 3 fades, sc blah blah) and where your skulks will be watching. After that it's TOTALLY on the fly because you simply cannot plan for midgame.

    The difference is that in a clan people will listen and do what needs doing, be where they need to be and can be relied on. Organising a pub game doesn't require skill, it requires blind luck in the people you play with and even then what you think is organisation and teamwork isn't.

    Teamwork between players is developed by playing together regularly, you simply cannot become synced and understand each other if it's a group of individuals who have never played together and you cannot come close, even in LM to a well organised team. Even a pug which is basically a pub match under clan conditions and often with clan players cannot touch the teamwork of an actual clan.
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  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    Nad -

    QUOTE

    Amazingly I don't remember saying one was definitively better than the other.


    I don't recall saying you did either. Step away from the paranoia cookies.

    QUOTE

    I do know that teamwork is much higher in clanplay though... which is what this topic is about.


    The probability of teamwork is much higher, tho tbh I value teamwork among random strangers higher than teamwork among 6 people who've already agreed to play in advance with a set plan.

    QUOTE

    also... I think it's a lot harder to win a clan match than a pub


    Open to debate. Due to the erratic nature of public play, I'd say its harder to win a pub, since you've no clue what anyone else is doing unless they're conscientious enough to teamsay.. and even then they'll usually just scream that fading an RT halfway across the map (while your only hive is being seiged) is the most important thing to do.


    Mr.Ben -

    QUOTE

    Most pre match planning goes as far as who will be doing what task, the overall start (dc first, 3 fades, sc blah blah) and where your skulks will be watching.


    Thats a hefty bit of planning, you know. Its a hell of a leap from joining a server with half a dozen strangers, a few familiar faces, and no real idea of what the comm is going to do, unless you happen to KNOW the comm and he's fairly consistent in his play. And noone knows what the hell is going through the mind of alien team.

    You don't know the opening, you don't know your role, and you don't know who will be covering where. You don't even know if you're going to go for a risky rush, because by the time people have organised a rush, its too late to do it.

    Its a world away from having a fairly set opening and a decent outline of who's doing what. Lets also bear in mind that you'll know your clanmates, know their abilities, probably had a few training sessions to keep things smooth, and been able to watch a demo of your opponent (most of the higher tier clans have lots of demos floating about).

    It gives you a much bigger edge than a random pub.

    QUOTE

    Organising a pub game doesn't require skill, it requires blind luck in the people you play with and even then what you think is organisation and teamwork isn't.


    The ability to create a team from several unconnected people is very much a skill. Especially if you've no idea of their abilities. If you can organise a chaotic pub into a decent team then you've certainly achieved something.

    Certainly its easy enough to create a team from people you know, you can pick and choose who you like, and train in advance. But on a pub, with people you probably don't know, haven't trained with, and none of you have any real motivation to actually follow anyone's orders (on the alien side at least).... thats where real teamwork and leadership come in.

    Seeing a pug/clan/scrim team work together is a relative joy to behold, but its only to be expected because said people have been playing together for a while, they've chosen to form a team, they've got a half decent battleplan and they know what people are meant to be doing. But its not the same as moulding a decent team from a bunch of total strangers, game after game.

    Consider a special forces team - you expect them to work together fluidly, have a battle plan, a clear leader, and solid knowledge of each other's skills. That they perform well is only to be expected.. they have the crutch of training, briefings, and observation. Yes, I say crutch because it just makes things easier.

    Now, imagine taking 6 people off the street.. average slobs, with no motivation to be a special forces team, no prior training, no briefing, no observation of their enemy, and they somehow pull off a decisive win. That is much much more impressive simply because the odds are stacked against them. Thats the fun of it. Teamwork on a pub, a coordinated win, they don't involve prior preparation, training, tactics... its all "as it happens". Which makes it all the more impressive.

    If Van Gogh painted a Van Gogh, noone would be overly impressed because thats what we expect from him. Like a special forces team working together... its their job, its what they're expected to do. They're trained for it.

    If a lobotomised blind man painted a Van Gogh with bodily fluids alone... then people would be amazed because the odds are stacked against it happening. If a bunch of overweight slobs formed a crack team and brought in Bin Laden, that would be exceptionally impressive.

    Bucking the odds makes a victory that much more satisfying. Especially teamwork that spontaneously appears in the middle of a match, not because everyone chose to form a little team, not because one guy is leading his 5 little friends and decides who does what, not because they have prior experience, but just because several people listen to each other and work out a good strategy. If I was gaming with 5 friends who I knew inside out, then I would EXPECT coordination because of sheer blind experience. That almost makes it valueless. Where's the thrill of moulding a team when you know the teamwork is already there? With pub play, there's no guarantee anyone will listen, or care, or contribute. Any teamwork that occurs is worth its weight in gold, purely because by all rights it should not exist.

    Can you see where I'm coming from?

    I really would not want to become synced with people to the point where games lose their randomness. I went through it in other games, PC, real life, strategy, fps, etc and it just becomes dull when you can virtually predict the entire match. I've moved past that stage and now I just prefer the odds stacked against me, because its a hell of a lot more fun. I'm sure some people will live in that stage forever, and that's their choice. Me, I'm in it for the fun and challenge of random gaming, without the crutch of knowledge.
  • God_KillerGod_Killer Join Date: 2004-02-16 Member: 26592Members Posts: 503
    I miss my mic...
    My avatar is like sooooo smooth.
  • ThantosThantos Join Date: 2004-05-26 Member: 28940Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 43
    edited September 2004
    TEAMWORK HAX!!

    lame teamwork hax i tell you
  • NonesuchNonesuch Join Date: 2003-11-01 Member: 22207Members Posts: 11
    I've been the alien commander before! it's fun! Usually I'm top of the team with 0 deaths, having gorged the whole game. biggrin-fix.gif Alien commanding differs from marine commanding cause the job consists mostly of putting out fires, and making sure people use their res effectively, *me hates it when theres one guy with 98 res asking how do I get bigger??* But that's what you have to be ready to deal with.
  • NiteowlNiteowl Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Posts: 1,222
    speaking as someone who sometimes comms marines, might i speak up and say.. "ALL ALIENS PLEASE IGNORE THIS SUGGESTION OF ALIEN COORDINATION AND LEADERSHIP!!" NO need!! Carry on with single attacks and lack of coordination please!!" smile-fix.gif

    Honestly, commanding against an alien team who has a few folks who are willing to take a leadership role (and get folks to listen), is a nightmare to play against. Good on you for taking that role.

    You can alien command if you do a few things:
    -can actually kill more marines than any other alien
    -have an icon next to your name (sometimes, and yes, i know that's lame)
    -KNOW the ppl you are playing with (a luxury)
    -start off just by giving information ("Marines are pressuring los paranois, at least 4, at least 2 shotguns"). If the aliens respond favorably, move on to suggestions "Could i get backup at Equilibrium? we have 5 marines tyring to get a PG here". i wouldn't suggest brow beating or 'ordering' other aliens around though. It doesn't inspire leadership, in a loosely coupled hierarchy.
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  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation Posts: 3,175
    Alien commanders are a good idea.

    Are you suggesting there can be something to indicate who is the leader?
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  • NiteowlNiteowl Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Posts: 1,222
    QUOTE (x5 @ Sep 30 2004, 01:09 PM)
    Alien commanders are a good idea.

    Are you suggesting there can be something to indicate who is the leader?

    No, I'm not. I'm just referring to the icons. Sometimes folks are willing to listen to someone who has, say, a dev icon by their name.

    I know probably one of THE most organized pub games I've ever played was one of the very few I played with Flayra on our side. Everyone was uber super duper teamworking.

    Then again, I also think it might have been a buncha folks who knew Flayra who were following him from server to server.
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  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation Posts: 3,175
    QUOTE (Niteowl @ Sep 30 2004, 05:19 PM)
    QUOTE (x5 @ Sep 30 2004, 01:09 PM)
    Alien commanders are a good idea.

    Are you suggesting there can be something to indicate who is the leader?

    No, I'm not. I'm just referring to the icons. Sometimes folks are willing to listen to someone who has, say, a dev icon by their name.

    I know probably one of THE most organized pub games I've ever played was one of the very few I played with Flayra on our side. Everyone was uber super duper teamworking.

    Then again, I also think it might have been a buncha folks who knew Flayra who were following him from server to server.

    Is he good? tounge.gif
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  • SLizerSLizer Join Date: 2003-11-07 Member: 22363Members, Constellation Posts: 1,301
    x5 tounge.gif


    And to the topic:

    Yes i like to inform my team all the time whats going on even if im not telling them what to do. It`s suprisingly that no one is telling you there is siege/pg before it`s too late.


    Also best role of the commander would be lerk i say, You can scan the map in less than 30s and you can tease rines and write/speak while you wait for energy(hp come back. Gorges comes second because they have to wait for those damn res to get those damn rts4tehwin!!11.

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  • NiteowlNiteowl Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Posts: 1,222
    QUOTE (x5 @ Sep 30 2004, 05:53 PM)

    Is he good? tounge.gif

    Uh, I seem to recalll him as being competent, but he wasn't going 50:0 as a skulk. That being said, there were some ubar clanners there (dn'.. and.. others). To even more skew the numbers, every. single. marine. tried to knife him. It got pretty silly.
    [OldF] Niteowl
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  • KeyserKeyser Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13591Members Posts: 684
    QUOTE
    That almost makes it valueless. Where's the thrill of moulding a team when you know the teamwork is already there? With pub play, there's no guarantee anyone will listen, or care, or contribute. Any teamwork that occurs is worth its weight in gold, purely because by all rights it should not exist.


    You say that like it doesn't take any effort to work as a team in a clan match. That is one of the most satisfying things about competitive play, seeing a group of players evolve to a point where they respond quickly and intelligently to enemy tactics as a team.

    In pub play, there is no team development, no sense of comradery, and no sense of importance. In a pub, a team plays together once and disbands. They can't improve over time because they don't adapt to the mistakes they might have played in the round before.

    From playing both public and competitive games, I feel as if I should be able to talk about this. I'm not sure if you've been in a clan or not before, but hopefully not because you would have experienced that playing and winning with a team of people who you have trained with is much more satisfying then doing playing and winning on a public server.
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  • BuggyBuggy Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22400Members, Constellation Posts: 972
    This is nice and all, but I don't think people would EVER fully listen to an alien commander on the Euro server i play on. Due to language barriers, and of course general stupidity / arrogance / newbieness / stubbornness
    former lerk and commando of lessthanthree <3
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members Posts: 2,254
    edited October 2004
    yeah, because "hey im an alien, i can do what i want where i want, and should you try to tell ME what to do, **** off. hey look our hive is dying, WTH NOOBS"

    its not always that, but sadly too many players have an attitude that poor. all we can hope of is they'll eventually grow up. of course there are those who are actually new and dont know what to do, and those are the ones that need to be helped.

    i usually wont bother trying to organise my team (well, i DO always tell them what needs to be done [in my opinion, which can be and should be questioned] but i wont go as far as yelling at them), because of

    1) theres someone more competent to the job than me
    2) i play lerk thus supporting rather than commanding, plus im a very bad lerk so i need 100% concentration to avoid getting killed
    3) i gorge for well-placed oc's/other stuff and help some newbie who's willing to learn.

    a dedicated alien comm could make this situation better, but the alien teamwork would propably still be much worse than marine. unless you give the alien comm at least partial control of resources which he can then give to players accordingly. but that would lead to too similar/symmetric teams, or would it?
    <DOOManiac> my main thing about clans is they never seem to actually have fun when playing
    <DOOManiac> even if they're winning they are so caught up in the seriousness of the situation they don't have fun. its like work. where's the fun in that?


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  • crisanocrisano Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31152Members Posts: 366
    edited October 2004
    Nec: You do realize that a PUG is what you are describing. PUGs take random people who want to join, people who don't practice together before, even play together before.

    #nspug

    There's an option of randomized teams, or captains. Everytime I play, there's usually someone I don't know or played with before. People talk about who wants to do what, they need to come up with plans on the spot and work from there. Pick up games are like what you are describing and that's one step down from clanplay.

    From what I've seen and before I joined #cri, all I did was pub, quite a bit of it too. I also chose to pub on classic than combat which requires more teamplay. From what I've seen, 95% of the time, the team that wins is the team that has more stacked players. Clanplay and pugplay is a lot more 'on the fly' than pubbing. There's nothing on the fly knowing aliens are going to win if the commander drops a TF at base, or seeing marines who can't aim get owned by one skulk, which in turn feeds him into an early fade. Public play is a lot more times more fustrating than fun. Especially those lame players who give up early and start wasting res on gorge hideouts, commanders who refuse to give the proper upgrades even though an experienced player is urging him to for the sake of the game, or people who don't want to drop DCs and insist on fading even though they have no skill in that catagory whatsoever.
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