Personally I would like the shotgun to have alot more pellets (same total damage though) with a more even and slightly randomized scatter. Meaning it would be easier to contact at least some pellets with a moving skulk or a lerk. Make it into "light" damage like turrets, do half damage to onos, should a shotgun really be the best choice for a very large, extremely heavily armored target? Slowing the rate of fire down would be good to go with the increased chance of hits.
<!--QuoteBegin-BreakfastSausages+Sep 19 2004, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BreakfastSausages @ Sep 19 2004, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally I would like the shotgun to have alot more pellets (same total damage though) with a more even and slightly randomized scatter. Meaning it would be easier to contact at least some pellets with a moving skulk or a lerk. Make it into "light" damage like turrets, do half damage to onos, should a shotgun really be the best choice for a very large, extremely heavily armored target? Slowing the rate of fire down would be good to go with the increased chance of hits. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The "light" damage idea is a good one me thinks. This combined with ROF decrease is one of the better suggestions me thinks o'o
The shotgun doesn't really make sense, thinking realism (and gameplay for that sake). Sure gameplay comes before realism, but if games becomes too unrealistic and too fantastic it also looses alot of credability and atmosphere.
How come a little 5mm metal ball does more damage than a sharp 9mm bullet does? Maybe the shotgun pellets consist of uranium depleted, electrefied, fusion powered, magically enchanted dragon bones, coated in neurotoxins. It's just wierd that they do almost the double damage of an LMG bullet, almost absurd.
<!--QuoteBegin-cookman+Sep 19 2004, 04:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cookman @ Sep 19 2004, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The shotgun doesn't really make sense, thinking realism (and gameplay for that sake). Sure gameplay comes before realism, but if games becomes too unrealistic and too fantastic it also looses alot of credability and atmosphere.
How come a little 5mm metal ball does more damage than a sharp 9mm bullet does? Maybe the shotgun pellets consist of uranium depleted, electrefied, fusion powered, magically enchanted dragon bones, coated in neurotoxins. It's just wierd that they do almost the double damage of an LMG bullet, almost absurd. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You sir, are a genious O.o. Good Diagram too o.o
<!--QuoteBegin-Marr+Sep 17 2004, 02:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marr @ Sep 17 2004, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and fix the shotgun bug: make pellet trajectories random again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They changed the crosshair to accomodate the bug....I don't think they're gonna change it any time soon.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Okay, the shotgun is your first 'Hardware upgrade' you get in the game. It's beefier, and you get it with your armory. This means that the shotgun was designed to be used in early-game, no?
Secondly, the shotgun is a pretty simple weapon. It's got spread so one would assume that the purpose of it is to smear little hard-to-hit critters across 30 feet of hallway.
So?
Give the shotgun Piercing Light damage, then give it more pellets, slightly less damage per pellet, and a slightly tighter spread, with randomization. This way the shotgun would be ideal for smearing that poor gorge all across a doorway, but that there are better weapons for blowing up structures and large lifeforms. The shotgun should not be a bread-and-butter weapon it is now. Right now, it's about as good as a GL for killing buildings (better, actually. Carries 2x as much ammo and reloads in about half the time) and HMG for blowing away large lifeforms. HMG requires that you keep a bead on them for a little while. Shotgun is just a one-hit-wonder.
i dont believe the shotgun should be nurfed. and if they want to nerf it they should increase the res it costs to drop it, i love the way the shotgun works.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most really good people can take out about 5 skulks using the same shotgun clip. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seeing how Most games are fitted 6v6's......
I do see a major problem with that.
Especially on how hives die before you even get the second message "Hive is under attack" when 2-3 shotgunners are shooting it.....
(from reading other posts and input from self) I think the problem is shotguns in large numbers.. So perhaps upping res cost might help? (as some have sugested)
Shotguns? Pah, who would use shotguns then. They're unreliable and the close range thing really wont magically kill fades blinking away unless they're /REALLY/ stupid. HMG is a far better weapon, fact, and after the armory gets upgraded, i'd never use shotguns after HMG's become available, unless there's some hive that needs taking down fast.
can some1 provide a screenshot of this new crosshair? cause the second 3.0b5 came out i loaded up my <span style='color:red'>+</span> crosshair, cause imo, it is alot easier to aim with, no rubbish blocked my view. I do not have any problems with the shotgun either, so yeah, might be just the crosshair making all of you suck, or perhaps it could be this problem: LEARN TO AIM NOOBS.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Sep 19 2004, 01:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Sep 19 2004, 01:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its used as a random cannon <i>because it makes no sense to aim with 5 dots covering a gigantic area</i>. Duurrrrrrr!
(Edit : For the slow ones here - this means you aim with the center 5, because you have tremendously good odds of landing those. If something comes close enough to catch the extra pellets too, thats just a bonus. Which is exactly the way you'd use a crosshair with truely random behavior. ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ooo excuse me! I'm sorry someone had terrible choice of words.
I think the shotgun acceptable. Its a lucker weapon since the spread is pretty large so i prefer the HMG. It only seems ueber because of the spread. Just look at 3 marines shooting down a hallway. They pretty much cover the entire area and thats the reason aliens die alot. So my suggestion is to reduce spread and damage so that there are less luck shots. Skilled players would love the new shottie that would still be insta death to skulks up close while there would me much less shottie spam down the hallway = skulkocide. Basically make it require aim to kill.
<!--QuoteBegin-|ds|meatshield+Sep 18 2004, 08:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Sep 18 2004, 08:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The eas way to ensure that shotguns still have the power it needs to take care of buildings and stuff while making it hurt if the marine misses, if to increase the damage of each pellet, while decreasing the ROF.
In effect, we're going to give the shotgun a "Focus" trait. Let's say we make the shotgun do about 75% more damage than it does now per pellet (so an increase to 30 damage per pellet) and we also halve its ROF. Now, the shotgun, over time, will only do 87.5% of the damage it did before (so it'll kill buildings even a bit slower than now).
Marines on average will take out only half as many skulks coming at him because "effective" damage to skulks stay the same (one shot, one kill if the marine is skilled) but the rate at which he can fire at a new target once the old one is dead is now 50% of what it was.
Perhaps also reduce the range of the shotgun by just a bit, so those people who always say that the shotgun can be used for "sniping" will be satisfied. Really though, the pistol can snipe a heck of a lot better than the shotgun can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Best suggestion so far. I'd say shotguns would need more pellets rather than more damage.
They would hurt the fades more , but not the onos (especially if they do "light" damage) because of the lower damage over time.
Personally I think the spread should be randomized before we talk about any other balance changes to the shotgun. Currently the shotgun is much more reliable than it should be because you're guaranteed to hit anything that fills your crosshair with 5 pellets, which is enough to one-shot a skulk.
If randomizing doesn't work for whatever reason, the next best solution IMHO is to double/triple the pellet count, lower the damage accordingly, and then spread the pellets relatively evenly over a large area. That way the damage scales up and down more or less uniformly as distance changes, as opposed to instakilling a skulk from medium range.
Comments
The "light" damage idea is a good one me thinks.
This combined with ROF decrease is one of the better suggestions me thinks o'o
How come a little 5mm metal ball does more damage than a sharp 9mm bullet does?
Maybe the shotgun pellets consist of uranium depleted, electrefied, fusion powered, magically enchanted dragon bones, coated in neurotoxins.
It's just wierd that they do almost the double damage of an LMG bullet, almost absurd.
How come a little 5mm metal ball does more damage than a sharp 9mm bullet does?
Maybe the shotgun pellets consist of uranium depleted, electrefied, fusion powered, magically enchanted dragon bones, coated in neurotoxins.
It's just wierd that they do almost the double damage of an LMG bullet, almost absurd. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You sir, are a genious O.o. Good Diagram too o.o
They changed the crosshair to accomodate the bug....I don't think they're gonna change it any time soon.... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Okay, the shotgun is your first 'Hardware upgrade' you get in the game. It's beefier, and you get it with your armory. This means that the shotgun was designed to be used in early-game, no?
Secondly, the shotgun is a pretty simple weapon. It's got spread so one would assume that the purpose of it is to smear little hard-to-hit critters across 30 feet of hallway.
So?
Give the shotgun Piercing Light damage, then give it more pellets, slightly less damage per pellet, and a slightly tighter spread, with randomization. This way the shotgun would be ideal for smearing that poor gorge all across a doorway, but that there are better weapons for blowing up structures and large lifeforms. The shotgun should not be a bread-and-butter weapon it is now. Right now, it's about as good as a GL for killing buildings (better, actually. Carries 2x as much ammo and reloads in about half the time) and HMG for blowing away large lifeforms. HMG requires that you keep a bead on them for a little while. Shotgun is just a one-hit-wonder.
i dont believe the shotgun should be nurfed. and if they want to nerf it they should increase the res it costs to drop it, i love the way the shotgun works.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seeing how Most games are fitted 6v6's......
I do see a major problem with that.
Especially on how hives die before you even get the second message "Hive is under attack" when 2-3 shotgunners are shooting it.....
I think the problem is shotguns in large numbers.. So perhaps upping res cost might help? (as some have sugested)
They can take about 3-4 skulks with an LMG as well."
That pretty much says it all.
(Edit : For the slow ones here - this means you aim with the center 5, because you have tremendously good odds of landing those. If something comes close enough to catch the extra pellets too, thats just a bonus. Which is exactly the way you'd use a crosshair with truely random behavior. ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ooo excuse me! I'm sorry someone had terrible choice of words.
In effect, we're going to give the shotgun a "Focus" trait. Let's say we make the shotgun do about 75% more damage than it does now per pellet (so an increase to 30 damage per pellet) and we also halve its ROF. Now, the shotgun, over time, will only do 87.5% of the damage it did before (so it'll kill buildings even a bit slower than now).
Marines on average will take out only half as many skulks coming at him because "effective" damage to skulks stay the same (one shot, one kill if the marine is skilled) but the rate at which he can fire at a new target once the old one is dead is now 50% of what it was.
Perhaps also reduce the range of the shotgun by just a bit, so those people who always say that the shotgun can be used for "sniping" will be satisfied. Really though, the pistol can snipe a heck of a lot better than the shotgun can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Best suggestion so far. I'd say shotguns would need more pellets rather than more damage.
They would hurt the fades more , but not the onos (especially if they do "light" damage) because of the lower damage over time.
If randomizing doesn't work for whatever reason, the next best solution IMHO is to double/triple the pellet count, lower the damage accordingly, and then spread the pellets relatively evenly over a large area. That way the damage scales up and down more or less uniformly as distance changes, as opposed to instakilling a skulk from medium range.