Radical Siege Change
Trevelyan
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Tech tree position</div> Siege is one of the most devastating weapons in the marine's arsenal, and it surprises me how low in the marine tech tree it is. One building... one upgrade later you can destroy anything in a large radius. Marines don't have to actively pursue anything to get sieges... I don't even think they require a IP. If aliens must chose to get a certian chamber for each hive... marines shouldn't be able to access something this powerful without going out of their way on the tech tree to get it. The siege upgrade on the turret factory should require an Advanced armory or protolab.
Comments
I just recommend making the upgrade to Adv. TFac at least 30-40 seconds.
I don't think we need it tied to the advance armory or proto, it'd be worthless, then.
I just recommend making the upgrade to Adv. TFac at least 30-40 seconds.
I don't think we need it tied to the advance armory or proto, it'd be worthless, then. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ehh... i'm confused.
Do you mean increasing the upgrade time by 30-40 seconds? or making it 30-40 seconds total. it sure seems like the upgrade is already around 30 seconds.
And Sieges being worthless? LoL. How about a seperate upgrade on a building? To bad the arms lab is full... it would make armor 1 first kinda tough to chose when sieges are on the line.
Edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->stupid idea because they they can't seige a building second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do know the developers can increase the build time on the 2nd hive?
Advanced turret factory research time: around 20 seconds I think
Advanced turret factory after change: 25 res
Advanced turret factory reasearch time after change: 20 seconds longer
Let's look at the definition of siege. It implies there is an entrenched enemy. Aliens entrench themselves by building a lot of OCs in their hive room. These OCs tend not to exist in the early stages of the game when rushing happens. Therefore, there is no point to siege since there is nothing worth sieging.
Let's look at the definition of siege. It implies there is an entrenched enemy. Aliens entrench themselves by building a lot of OCs in their hive room. These OCs tend not to exist in the early stages of the game when rushing happens. Therefore, there is no point to siege since there is nothing worth sieging. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I can't think of any other structures to siege besides ocs. We always knife the hives, you know?
Edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->stupid idea because they they can't seige a building second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do know the developers can increase the build time on the 2nd hive? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know I can pluck your eyeballs out an eat 'em?
Just as viable.
You do know the developers can increase the build time on the 2nd hive? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know the developers don't want to make your game?
You do know the developers can increase the build time on the 2nd hive? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know the developers don't want to make your game? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know you can stop, cause ill let you, of course <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Siege's are fine. theyre effective, aint over powered, and tie wonderfully into the game. anyways, ive commed 20+maps int eh last few days. aint sieged one of em. gogo gadget tech rush.
Advanced turret factory research time: around 20 seconds I think
Advanced turret factory after change: 25 res
Advanced turret factory reasearch time after change: 20 seconds longer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1/2 of which is regained by recycling after you've murdered the hive.
[thinks recycling makes marine's game too easy]
You do know the developers can increase the build time on the 2nd hive? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you know the developers don't want to make your game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I'm sorry... is this not the forum to bring up and discuss ideas to change the gameplay of NS?
You act as though i expect each and every single idea I post to be implimented, which any sane person wouldn't. He pointed out a problem with my idea... I stated a solution.
SUGGESTION! (OMG!!!111!!!1)
siege upgrade without advanced armory ~50s 1m
siege upgrade with advanced armory ~30s 40s
what u think?
IMPO leave sieges as they are... they are pretty fine, and if aliens spots a TF in time, there is enough time to get there and attack the sieging spot
I've explained this situation quite a few times before, but longer seige times almost always is a WIN-WIN situation for marines (especially with Rez4Kills). If they don't seige the hive, but kepts most of their nodes they profit. If they take out the hive they profit. If they have 1 rambo cap nodes durring the time they hold the seige point, they profit.
In this situation, what do the aliens gain? They've less people available to defend nodes or take nodes out. The Rez4Kills is distributed among players and usually not a significant amount to affect the outcome (gestating aliens means 1 less person to attack). The death queue will fill up and marines can outspawn and beacon/PG in seconds. The alien team is playing defense instead of offense and defenses will always eventually fail. The aliens are almost guaranteed to lose structures in the hive (D's, RT's, etc). Even if aliens defeat the seige attempt, the only thing they usually gain is a hive they already had and some Rez4Kills. With an unfocused COMM, the aliens have a chance to remove nodes and break the bank - most decent COMMs multi-task.
What you can do, however, is make the Siege upgrade "Requires: Arms Lab" or something of that nature. I do agree that it does require a little increase in research time. Gives aliens some time to respond if they're all over the map, without completely ruining the chances of a ninja siege (of a hive like Waste on ns_tanith, for instance).
I wish the splash damage was reduced. It really sucks when your hive is getting siege and you die the EXACT SECOND YOU SPAWN because you pop on hive level and A SINGLE SIEGE CANNON destroys you. It's really no fun for the lower life forms (like Lerks or Gorges. THINK ABOUT THE GORGES!1)
Problem is, you won't be really scouting for rambos around your hive if your team is good enough that they don't die a lot. If most of your forces are: A) Spread across 2 or 3 hives, and B) On the marine offensive, you're less likely to notice some rambo ninja crawling through a vent to build a phase gate in some stupid impossible corner. Without SOF it'll be very unlikely to find him randomly, and since Sensory is such a lame choice now, no one will really have that at Hive 2.
All that said, I think that 'prevention' should NEVER be a counter to anything, as that's just stupid. You could put nukes back in the game and simply say 'Well, prevent it from going off' and that won't make it balanced. The Krogoth in TA:CC was balanced by the fact it took not only the resources of a planet to build, but it took several SEVERAL minutes, and was at the top of the tech tree. Yes, prevention was a big part of not being stomped by a Krogoth, but prevention was easy because you had so much time. Preventing a siege only gets harder if you don't remove it on the first attack thanks to ideas like Res 4 Kills.
Its a discussion about moving/changing Sieges in the tech tree. Sieges are in the NS beta thus can be under this forum. Besides a mod can always move it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Recently the clan that i play for has attempted a siege strat against a few highly ranked Australian clans. 3 out of 4 times they were succesful with us winning in under 5:30. If you employ the siege rush early (ie: fast PGs early hive detection then pressure with maybe 1-2 nodes captured) then this tactic is extremely hard to defeat. But it can be done simply by using chambers other than dc. Such as focus or cloak. There are also certain hives that are harder to siege than others.
IMO i dont think sieges need to be changed at all. Then entire point of the alien is to stop the siege before it starts. And if its a first hive they can go SC and stop the siege in its tracks (most teams cant afford armor1 in a siege rush). Or if its a 2nd hive rush try co-ordinating bile+fades+skulks or even stomp if its available
Its a discussion about moving/changing Sieges in the tech tree. Sieges are in the NS beta thus can be under this forum. Besides a mod can always move it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me strokes trevalyn
If it's a 'radical change' it's an "Idea" or "Suggestion" that should go in the ideas and suggestions forum.
This forum (as far as I can see) was intended to discuss small tweaks to the current beta, not suddenly revolutionise it. That's what the revamped I&S forum is for.
I'm not sure if any mods are actually viewing this forum all that much anymore, since they seem to be letting I&S stuff run rampant :/
Translation- "the rines stomped me all game but I want to win now because prevention is stupid."
Every time you question balance, it's always towards what YOU feel is balanced. What about the other 6-10 players on the marine side, wondering "okay what the hell. We were dominating them the entire game, as we have enough res to set up a phase gate, sieges, secure it with mines and shotguns, and enough ability to hold them off, but they should win now because apparently it's lame?"
aggghhhh fine you win...
You always play dirty (:<
"building cost"-"recycle"=(10+15+3*15)-(7+3*7)=70-28=42 is very cheaps for killing a hive (10+40=50) and the chambers around...
I think a cost of 25 for the siege turrets is better for this overpowered weapon...
It's a weapon that provides another tactic for the marines. 15 resources is a fine price for it, that'd take a single resource node 1 minute to generate the required resources.
It's a weapon that provides another tactic for the marines. 15 resources is a fine price for it, that'd take a single resource node 1 minute to generate the required resources. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Single? Since when did marines have a <b>single</b> res tower when they're seiging (exception of base seige, where marines just can't get out of base due to WOLs attracting them like flies to bugzappers, they just keep coming <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) And since when did <b><u><i>RFK</i></u></b> get removed? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If that's too extreme, just tone down the damage/AOE/fire rate (delete as appropiate) of the siege.
If that's too extreme, just tone down the damage/AOE/fire rate (delete as appropiate) of the siege. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you wouldn't have to change the damage done to buildings... just life forms. Kinda like how the onos takes 1/2 damage from turrets. Yea they shouldn't be as good as they are... but the WOL getting rocked by 5 sieges shouldn't be a friendly place for a gorge.
If that's too extreme, just tone down the damage/AOE/fire rate (delete as appropiate) of the siege. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd think a gigantic sonic blast creating a powerful "whatever" which damages structures would be equally as deadly to aliens. I doubt the damage would get removed :/
I just feel that it's enough for sieges to do damage to buildings, and not also turn those buildings into death traps.
Try playing on servers with FF. I walked into the hive to give the comm a site and he TKed me.
I'm confused about what the problem is with the sieges. If they were overpowered you'd see them being exploited again and again, and that really isn't the case. You could increase the upgrade time of the turret factory by 5 or 10 seconds, but I don't see how that would change things much.