<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Sep 17 2004, 04:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Sep 17 2004, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just don't see how you can support a man that doesn't care much about education, that doesn't care much about retirement plans, doesn't support enforcing lowered prices of perscription drugs, doesn't think the government should provide some sort of healthcare for those that can't afford it, doesn't care enough to help out the average Joe to keep jobs in America, and creates laws based on pseudo-christian ****.
Anyway I'm just saying this. I find political debates on gaming forums to be stupid since the average poster 1) Knows nothing about politics, 2) Only cares about poliitcal issues to the extent of 'GUNZ R KOOL' and 3) Refuses to think about other people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ohnoes, he insulted us! whatever shall we do, except to resort to awesome flame-countering flames!~~~one1
You guys act like everyone is given the same love and attention, given the same values and morals, and the same opportunities to succeed. It's simply not true. Some people are born with absolutely no options and completely unable to succeed. That's why we build programs to reduce the chance of that happening. Right now Bush is cutting funding to such programs, and the reasons are less than admirable.
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys act like everyone is given the same love and attention, given the same values and morals, and the same opportunities to succeed. It's simply not true. Some people are born with absolutely no options and completely unable to succeed. That's why we build programs to reduce the chance of that happening. Right now Bush is cutting funding to such programs, and the reasons are less than admirable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you mean like orphans, and people with severe disabilities? references to where he cuts funding for that kind of stuff, please
Not just that, hes cutting funds to troops in Iraq. He's raising the price of health care, anybody with a job knows that. Education funding has been cut as well.
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> He's raising the price of health care, anybody with a job knows that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i'm interested in seeing how the president of the united states is "raising the price of health care." last i checked, it was the insurance companies who did that.
*edit* <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Care to post some to refute me?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH?!! The burden of proof is on you, my friend. You brought this up, it's up to you to support it. That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well I could fax you my paycheck but I'd rather not. My health care was raised too. Like I said before, anybody with a job knows this! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm.....
Anyone "with a job" knows that health care prices have nothing CLOSE to do with your president... but with your union/boss sorta crap
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well I could fax you my paycheck but I'd rather not. My health care was raised too. Like I said before, anybody with a job knows this! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how about you place the blame where it belongs, and not on Bush.
Blame it on people who sue doctors for 10$mill when their son gets mild allergies from a medication. Don't blame it on Bush. All Kerry would do is subsidize health care to a greater extent, which doesn't even address the problem.
@Forlorn - or your company's collective bargaining power. Which is often why large companies can afford to give their employees health insurance benefits, whereas small companies cannot.
Bush is the most powerful man in America, if anyone can fix the problem its him. That's how all hierarchies work. The fault ultimately lies with the chief.
Relsan, that's flawed logic. The United States is not a true hierarchy, never has been, and hopefully never will be. The government has very little control over the economy unless it happens to be a socialist system in place. Welcome to capitalism, this is your captain speaking, an Economics book might be helpful for your situation.
And please, name one example where someone is born truly unable to get ahead. Please. Do it. As long as your mental health is decent, you can still overcome obstacles in your life and be successful.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just don't see how you can support a man that doesn't care much about education, that doesn't care much about retirement plans, doesn't support enforcing lowered prices of perscription drugs, doesn't think the government should provide some sort of healthcare for those that can't afford it, doesn't care enough to help out the average Joe to keep jobs in America, and creates laws based on pseudo-christian ****. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He cares about all of these things, but he also understands that the private sector will always be cheaper and more efficient than the government. Also, drugs are a load of BS. If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives and lacking the resources to keep their health at livable levels. So, all is fair and good when money comes out of my paycheck to pay for their mistakes.
It's an interesting thing you talk about average Joe. See, the reality of outsourcing is that a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for. Efficiency and profit go up all around, and stockholder Ken gets more dividends. Now, if Joe had placed his eggs in a few baskets, Joe could be making money off of outsourcing.
Job competition is a hard thing in our over-unionized country, and unions, instead of backing off and making union works more competitive, starting pushing even harder on companies, making them want to outsource jobs that much more. Ironic, isn't it?
What Joe needs is to use his job as a resource to allow him to provide for his family and build a more diverse and profitable financial base. If Joe is smart, he'll save more than he spends on recreation for a few months and start investing.
Now, as for Bush wanting the Christian based laws, I'm for some of it, and against some of it. For me though, I'm more concerned with fiscal politics and foreign relations than domestic issues like abortion, homosexual marriage, etc. I'd like to see the government step away from issues like that, but once again, I'm more concerned with my rights going down the drain and my money being sucked away than if two guys want to tie the knot.
illuminex are you seriously basing your decision on the nation's leader based on 'well it's their fault for doing blah blah... to need the government'? Other forum-goers: If I ever called you a close-minded ape I take it back, completely - anything you could've said is nowhere as... naive (thank god for Thesaurus - they don't like people simply calling things 'stupid') as what I've just read. This kid right here is a disgrace to humanity. I've seen dried oil stains on my driveway that aren't as shallow as you. Good god I don't know weather to laugh or cry after reading that.
Summed up:
"WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"
"ROFL LOL I DONT CARE ABOUT RETIREMENT ITS THAT AVERAGE WORKERS FAULT FOR NOT WANTING TO SACRAFICE ALL OF HIS BENEFITS AND HALF HIS PAYCHECK"
"OMG LOL UR NOOB EDUCATION IS RETARDED LOL I GREW UP IN A RICH NEIGHBORHOOD INNER-CITY KIDS DESERVE TO BE DUM"
After reading those not only rediculous and short-sighted 'opinions' I can't even imagine you're old enough to vote Illuminex. Have you even held a full-time job? Saying that outsourcing is the fault of workers is just... SAD. What's even worse is that you first say that healthcare wouldn't be an issue if people would stop getting sick, then you say that workers should be willing to sacrafice benefits (LIKE HEALTHCARE YOU CHESTNUT) to keep their jobs.
You want to know why healthcare is such a big issue? BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE. I don't even really like Canada and I have to say that health should be something guarenteed by the government. Oh yes, privatized healthcare should exist, that creates competition, but what if I don't want to pay $25,000 to fix a collapsed lung? Tough luck! If I get run over by a truck and I have no money, I shouldn't be left to die or have to spend the rest of my life $78,000 in debt to some hospital.
Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from. Perscription drugs wouldn't be such an issue if we just put Hitler back in power and slaughtered all the 'genetically inferior' humans. That seems to be what you want to do. It's their fault for being black and being susceptible to sickle cell anemia. Kill them all. They're inferior to us rich white folks. A childhood friend of mine developed massive malignant brain tumors. They can't remove them completely. He has siezures and what can only easilly be described as advanced Down's Syndrome. He was born a perfectly normal baby. He has to take about 25 pills a day - they control his siezures, keep his organs working right, supress depression, all sorts of things.
And you're going to say it's his fault?
God damn your post makes me just want to... *ARRRRRRGH*
Why do you bother EEK, you post long flamy replies, most of which is based around putting words into someone elses mouth, and then never reply when they tear your vitrol to shreds.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78753&view=findpost&p=1209355' target='_blank'>Case in Point</a>
Still, those of us without evidence to back ourselves up have precious little other than emotion to rely on....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After reading those not only rediculous and short-sighted 'opinions' I can't even imagine you're old enough to vote Illuminex. Have you even held a full-time job? Saying that outsourcing is the fault of workers is just... SAD. What's even worse is that you first say that healthcare wouldn't be an issue if people would stop getting sick, then you say that workers should be willing to sacrafice benefits (LIKE HEALTHCARE YOU CHESTNUT) to keep their jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He said UNIONS, not workers, but who cares about piddly little details like that when ur firing up the discussion forum barbeque. Then you demonstrate intellectual agility that would make any cerelity leap skulk proud, you duck, weave, spin, leap, spin, leap and flip to avoid realising that illuminx is referring to things like heart transplants for that fat guy you see stuffing himself at maccas before going out side, and a new set of lungs for that guy on the corner lighting up. Make no mistake - you want a welfare system like Australia (and I like Australia's system), then you are going to spend a full 1/5, thats right, ONE FIFTH, of your GDP on it. Thats what Australia spends to keep everyone health - both on the deserving and the undeserving.
But all that isnt half as interesting as illuminex the brutal darwinian advocate, so please continue your delusional tirade, maybe it will release stress so you wont suffer from one of those breakdowns you tricked yourself into thinking illuminex wants for the poor people. Then go and check out <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80580' target='_blank'>this thread</a> and figure out exactly where you fit in the scheme of things.
Him: "If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. "
" The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives"
(Ironically enough he states outright that he has no idea what the hell is going on with retirement packages - it's not people retiring without 'ample' retirement - it's the companies they worked for that are stripping them away. You don't just quit your career and get a new one.)
Me: "WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"
Seems like an apt comparison.
Me: "OMG LOL UR NOOB EDUCATION IS RETARDED LOL I GREW UP IN A RICH NEIGHBORHOOD INNER-CITY KIDS DESERVE TO BE DUM"
Him: No. He didn't even talk about education. But first, let's look at his next nugget of well-thought-out empathatic joy.
Him: "a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for."
"Now, if Joe had..."
Me: "ROFL LOL I DONT CARE ABOUT RETIREMENT ITS THAT AVERAGE WORKERS FAULT FOR NOT WANTING TO SACRAFICE ALL OF HIS BENEFITS AND HALF HIS PAYCHECK"
Sacrafice benefits? How about this: "he also understands that the private sector will always be cheaper and more efficient than the government."
Obviously illuminex has 1) Never been in a hospital, and 2) Has no idea how much even basic healthcare costs.
Now going back, he's made TWO replies (and only two) to my post, BOTH of which blame the countries problems on the people that are having them. I don't see him saying he'd feel that inner-city kids in Chicago 't deserve better education. He certainly doesn't give a **** about anyone else.
All he said in his post was that "All of the worlds problems would be removed by killing the people complaining about them". He's not in favor of finding a solution to the problems. He's made that much abundently clear. He's in favor of not helping the people and instead making fun of them with trite phrases about topics he has zero experience with.
By the way, I enjoy your abstract method of flaming, Marine. You can claim I put words in people's mouths all the time, but don't you DARE try to complain about other people's 'emotional arguments', ESPECIALLY when the person you acuse of 'using emotions' REJECTED being force-fed a fantasy-land of religion, the same of which you accepted. At least my emotions are MINE ALONE, and not the same as what some dead guy told you to 1,900 years ago.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Sep 18 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Sep 18 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the way, I enjoy your abstract method of flaming, Marine. You can claim I put words in people's mouths all the time, but don't you DARE try to complain about other people's 'emotional arguments', ESPECIALLY when the person you acuse of 'using emotions' REJECTED being force-fed a fantasy-land of religion, the same of which you accepted. At least my emotions are MINE ALONE, not crap force-fed to me by a rich upper elite who fabricated a set of guidelines of how you should live your life over 2,000 years ago.
(Go ahead, complain about me 'offending your religion'. Because you can believe whatever you want in the bible you live by, I believe whatever I want, and I believe the bible was written by a powerful upper-class to keep the peasants in line. But that is not the point of this thread (I'm just covering my bases for your flamebait posts you like to make).) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please read my edit on the previous page, you would have been typing the above whilst I was typing it.
I do have an abstract method of flaming, and I must admit your post has kinda brought me out in arms. I have emotional arguments for religion - but I never, EVER go "OMG YOU HERETIC FOOLS JESUS LOVES U FFS YOU MUST BE THE STUPIDIST PEOPLE I'VE EVER MET YOUR ALL GOING TO BURN!!!111" which seems to fast becoming your staple post.
I pity you EEK, you believe something with the same zeal and feverency as any religious zealot, and like them you think you are right, absolutely right, and everyone else is stupid and without the truth. The same things you bash religious people for are your day to day actions. You've got the truth - everyone else is stupid. Good to see the spirit of the Middle Ages Catholic church is alive and well in our atheist population.
You cant "offend" my religion, because I take all assaults on it as challenges, instead of crying about how nasty people are being.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He said UNIONS, not workers, but who cares about piddly little details like that when ur firing up the discussion forum barbeque. Then you demonstrate intellectual agility that would make any cerelity leap skulk proud, you duck, weave, spin, leap, spin, leap and flip to avoid realising that illuminx is referring to things like heart transplants for that fat guy you see stuffing himself at maccas before going out side, and a new set of lungs for that guy on the corner lighting up. Make no mistake - you want a welfare system like Australia (and I like Australia's system), then you are going to spend a full 1/5, thats right, ONE FIFTH, of your GDP on it. Thats what Australia spends to keep everyone health - both on the deserving and the undeserving. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. He mentioned the Average Joe Worker <b>SPECIFICALLY</b>. There was a very short passing comment about how the problem could be the fault of unions, but that is just plain stupid. The people at Enron weren't part of a union. My father who works for Mitel isn't a union. My girlfriend's dad is a carpenter and he's not part of a union. My neighbor worked in a Pharmacy and she's not part of a union. In fact, the eight pharmacists I worked with weren't unionized. Why? Because Eckered will NOT allow unionized labor. Unions themselves I think are frivulous and silly. At a core, they are a good idea: The ensure basic rights and privledges for workers. In execution they're a joke. Unionized labor costs twice as much and is half as productive. They whine and complain a lot.
Secondly, I'd rather my tax money be spent on keeping humans alive and ensuring a good life to others then being spent on drafting constitutional amendments to preserve good christian ideals.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No. He mentioned the Average Joe Worker SPECIFICALLY. There was a very short passing comment about how the problem could be the fault of unions, but that is just plain stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's an interesting thing you talk about average Joe. See, the reality of outsourcing is that a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for. Efficiency and profit go up all around, and stockholder Ken gets more dividends. Now, if Joe had placed his eggs in a few baskets, Joe could be making money off of outsourcing.
Job competition is a hard thing in our over-unionized country, and unions, instead of backing off and making union works more competitive, starting pushing even harder on companies, making them want to outsource jobs that much more. Ironic, isn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesnt sound like he's blaming Joe for outsourcing, just said he could have managed it better.
I dont follow your argument sorry, everyone you know isnt in a union, so obviously unions dont pressure anyone to outsource? I dont get it. You then go on to explain the background of why companies dont like unions, and when they deal with them feel pressured to outsource. Why is his idea stupid?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Secondly, I'd rather my tax money be spent on keeping humans alive and ensuring a good life to others then being spent on drafting constitutional amendments to preserve good christian ideals.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Put words in his mouth?
Him: "If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. "
" The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives"
(Ironically enough he states outright that he has no idea what the hell is going on with retirement packages - it's not people retiring without 'ample' retirement - it's the companies they worked for that are stripping them away. You don't just quit your career and get a new one.)
Me: "WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME??? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
Its
"I eat 2 times my wieght in potato chips, smoke 3 packs a day. and drink my self into a stooper evernight; despite every doctor telling me not to. Now take care of me!"
I have an idea, why not address the ideas and not try to make people look bad by warping what they say. We are all literate here and can read the posts for ourselves, we dont need you to do that for us.
As for the issue of healthcare, anything the government touches turns to crap (look at wellfare). I want them as far as way from my healthcare as possible. And before you try any insights into my life; yes, I pay for my own health care plan. The government never fixes its programs, its just throws more money at them. That said, Bush has a great idea for making healthcare cheaper for smaller businesses. Allowing small companies to pull together to get cheaper healthcare is great. As for the healthcare is getting more expensive. We cannot blame the government for this, rather our own greed. We have become a nation of trial lawyers, sue anyone over the smallest mistake. When doctors pay almost half of their income to malpractice insurance, of course they are going to raise prices. Thusly, your premium will go up. The Bush ticket also wants to put caps on malpractice lawsuites. This would make doctor bill go down, and thusly healthcare. They just need watch that they dont limit pay outs for everything.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Sep 18 2004, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Sep 18 2004, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Obviously illuminex has 1) Never been in a hospital, and 2) Has no idea how much even basic healthcare costs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.wellmark.com/news/issue_brief_sd.pdf' target='_blank'>edify</a> <a href='http://peerspectives.org/index.peer?page=main&storyid=5400' target='_blank'>yourself.</a> <a href='http://www.towersperrin.com/tillinghast/press/2003_press/pr12102003.htm' target='_blank'>rising health care costs?</a> <a href='http://insurance.about.com/library/weekly/aahealthcosts070901.htm' target='_blank'>it's been happening for a while</a>
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
He does have a point that most of you that think that way is selfish and ego-centered.. No offense but that is the nature of some of the arguments you come up with..
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Sep 17 2004, 04:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Sep 17 2004, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just don't see how you can support a man that doesn't care much about education, that doesn't care much about retirement plans, doesn't support enforcing lowered prices of perscription drugs, doesn't think the government should provide some sort of healthcare for those that can't afford it, doesn't care enough to help out the average Joe to keep jobs in America, and creates laws based on pseudo-christian ****.
Anyway I'm just saying this. I find political debates on gaming forums to be stupid since the average poster 1) Knows nothing about politics, 2) Only cares about poliitcal issues to the extent of 'GUNZ R KOOL' and 3) Refuses to think about other people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I care such things, however I feel they are better covered by the states or the individual. I do not see why it is the job of the federal government to provide beyond basic healthcare.
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not just that, hes cutting funds to troops in Iraq. He's raising the price of health care, anybody with a job knows that. Education funding has been cut as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe you can help me find the name of the bill he signed that raised the cost of healthcare?
<!--QuoteBegin-relsan+Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well I could fax you my paycheck but I'd rather not. My health care was raised too. Like I said before, anybody with a job knows this! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have a job. My healthcare costs have not increased.
You have a real bad habit of making sweeping statements and then arguing that you do not need supporting evidence. That does not go far in an arguement.
I will cede points. I am not a fan of president Bush. If you provide evidence of why I should not support him then by all means do.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Sep 18 2004, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Sep 18 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am not a fan of president Bush. If you provide evidence of why I should not support him then by all means do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> USAPATRIOTACT? Of course, thats also a reason you shouldn't support Kerry...
EEK, so, where's your argument again? Where's your thought pattern? Ohh yeah, you could only offer a personal attack against me. Good job, All Hail EEK.
Remember, I'm shallow because I won't support the obese smoker with my paycheck.
Remember, I'm disgusting because I don't think I should be forced to pay for someone else's bad money decisions.
Remember, because I'm trying to point out why outsourcing is a problem, the fact that unions are not willing to try and work with companies to make their workers competitive, and the fact that American workers are too hand fed to use the system for what it is for, I'm cold and heartless.
I said nothing about "sacrificing benefits" or "losing half of their paycheck." Nice try, but you lose. I said more competitive, whatever that might mean. Unions are unwilling to make any compromise or to really work with a company on things like pay or benefits. Union bosses make tons of profit, and Union workers get politics. So, companies see that they have no way of getting any support from unions, and they leave. I would too.
EEK, sorry about your friend, but it isn't the government's job to pay for pills. Those Christians you love to attack have better and fairer charities that would help him out, and there are so many not-for-profit groups out there with similar causes, government healthcare is not needed.
Here's the reality: most of the major diseases in America are preventible. Wait, that sure does give a lot of weight to my side. Meanwhile, you cry about "short sided." Righto, go ahead.
So what is the deal here with you? My whole point is that people should think ahead, specifically with health and money. That's a dangerous point to make, since most people don't and don't like to be reminded that they are not.
Label me all you want, your method will never really help people, but mine forces people to help themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He does have a point that most of you that think that way is selfish and ego-centered.. No offense but that is the nature of some of the arguments you come up with.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This made me laugh. My point has all along been that people are, in 95 % of cases, able to take care of themselves just fine and if they aren't meeting that standard, it was their choice. The 5 % who seriously cannot take care of themselves can be taken care of by family, friends, local charities, etc. There is a wealth of people who do real good in the world. It is wrong that I should be forced to pay for Jimmy with a tumor. I'll give him some money on my own time, thanks. That's the point.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Remember.. You're only paying 0,00000000001% (or less) for Jimmy's tumor. The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them.. No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering..
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Sep 18 2004, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Sep 18 2004, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember.. You're only paying 0,00000000001% (or less) for Jimmy's tumor. The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them.. No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 20-50% in income (not including state, city, sales, and property) taxes is hardly "0.00001%".
and...by the way. the reason health care costs are rising is because hospitals are forced to treat people who don't have insurance, even if they can't pay. Many people go to the emergency rooms on false alarms, that costs a lot. I want to see someone refute the evidence i posted earlier. As you can clearly see, managed health-care costs started going up well before Clinton's second term in office.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Sep 19 2004, 08:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Sep 19 2004, 08:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember.. You're only paying 0,00000000001% (or less) for Jimmy's tumor. The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them.. No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats not really true Epidemic. You are paying .0000001% of his tumour operation, but you are also paying that .000001% for thousands of other operations that people have. As I said, in Australia we spend fully 1/5 of our GDP on the PBS scheme (medicine subsidation) and Medicare, the Goverment Medical Welfare organisation. That hurts at tax time.
Comments
Anyway I'm just saying this. I find political debates on gaming forums to be stupid since the average poster 1) Knows nothing about politics, 2) Only cares about poliitcal issues to the extent of 'GUNZ R KOOL' and 3) Refuses to think about other people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ohnoes, he insulted us! whatever shall we do, except to resort to awesome flame-countering flames!~~~one1
btw...are you serious?
you mean like orphans, and people with severe disabilities? references to where he cuts funding for that kind of stuff, please
Oh wait, I dont have any links or any proof that that is the case, maybe I should post some so people will take me seriously
Inspired relsan?
i'm interested in seeing how the president of the united states is "raising the price of health care." last i checked, it was the insurance companies who did that.
*edit* <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Care to post some to refute me?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH?!! The burden of proof is on you, my friend. You brought this up, it's up to you to support it. That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm.....
Anyone "with a job" knows that health care prices have nothing CLOSE to do with your president... but with your union/boss sorta crap
how about you place the blame where it belongs, and not on Bush.
Blame it on people who sue doctors for 10$mill when their son gets mild allergies from a medication. Don't blame it on Bush. All Kerry would do is subsidize health care to a greater extent, which doesn't even address the problem.
@Forlorn - or your company's collective bargaining power. Which is often why large companies can afford to give their employees health insurance benefits, whereas small companies cannot.
And please, name one example where someone is born truly unable to get ahead. Please. Do it. As long as your mental health is decent, you can still overcome obstacles in your life and be successful.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just don't see how you can support a man that doesn't care much about education, that doesn't care much about retirement plans, doesn't support enforcing lowered prices of perscription drugs, doesn't think the government should provide some sort of healthcare for those that can't afford it, doesn't care enough to help out the average Joe to keep jobs in America, and creates laws based on pseudo-christian ****.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He cares about all of these things, but he also understands that the private sector will always be cheaper and more efficient than the government. Also, drugs are a load of BS. If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives and lacking the resources to keep their health at livable levels. So, all is fair and good when money comes out of my paycheck to pay for their mistakes.
It's an interesting thing you talk about average Joe. See, the reality of outsourcing is that a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for. Efficiency and profit go up all around, and stockholder Ken gets more dividends. Now, if Joe had placed his eggs in a few baskets, Joe could be making money off of outsourcing.
Job competition is a hard thing in our over-unionized country, and unions, instead of backing off and making union works more competitive, starting pushing even harder on companies, making them want to outsource jobs that much more. Ironic, isn't it?
What Joe needs is to use his job as a resource to allow him to provide for his family and build a more diverse and profitable financial base. If Joe is smart, he'll save more than he spends on recreation for a few months and start investing.
Now, as for Bush wanting the Christian based laws, I'm for some of it, and against some of it. For me though, I'm more concerned with fiscal politics and foreign relations than domestic issues like abortion, homosexual marriage, etc. I'd like to see the government step away from issues like that, but once again, I'm more concerned with my rights going down the drain and my money being sucked away than if two guys want to tie the knot.
Summed up:
"WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"
"ROFL LOL I DONT CARE ABOUT RETIREMENT ITS THAT AVERAGE WORKERS FAULT FOR NOT WANTING TO SACRAFICE ALL OF HIS BENEFITS AND HALF HIS PAYCHECK"
"OMG LOL UR NOOB EDUCATION IS RETARDED LOL I GREW UP IN A RICH NEIGHBORHOOD INNER-CITY KIDS DESERVE TO BE DUM"
After reading those not only rediculous and short-sighted 'opinions' I can't even imagine you're old enough to vote Illuminex. Have you even held a full-time job? Saying that outsourcing is the fault of workers is just... SAD. What's even worse is that you first say that healthcare wouldn't be an issue if people would stop getting sick, then you say that workers should be willing to sacrafice benefits (LIKE HEALTHCARE YOU CHESTNUT) to keep their jobs.
You want to know why healthcare is such a big issue? BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE. I don't even really like Canada and I have to say that health should be something guarenteed by the government. Oh yes, privatized healthcare should exist, that creates competition, but what if I don't want to pay $25,000 to fix a collapsed lung? Tough luck! If I get run over by a truck and I have no money, I shouldn't be left to die or have to spend the rest of my life $78,000 in debt to some hospital.
Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from. Perscription drugs wouldn't be such an issue if we just put Hitler back in power and slaughtered all the 'genetically inferior' humans. That seems to be what you want to do. It's their fault for being black and being susceptible to sickle cell anemia. Kill them all. They're inferior to us rich white folks. A childhood friend of mine developed massive malignant brain tumors. They can't remove them completely. He has siezures and what can only easilly be described as advanced Down's Syndrome. He was born a perfectly normal baby. He has to take about 25 pills a day - they control his siezures, keep his organs working right, supress depression, all sorts of things.
And you're going to say it's his fault?
God damn your post makes me just want to... *ARRRRRRGH*
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78753&view=findpost&p=1209355' target='_blank'>Case in Point</a>
Still, those of us without evidence to back ourselves up have precious little other than emotion to rely on....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After reading those not only rediculous and short-sighted 'opinions' I can't even imagine you're old enough to vote Illuminex. Have you even held a full-time job? Saying that outsourcing is the fault of workers is just... SAD. What's even worse is that you first say that healthcare wouldn't be an issue if people would stop getting sick, then you say that workers should be willing to sacrafice benefits (LIKE HEALTHCARE YOU CHESTNUT) to keep their jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He said UNIONS, not workers, but who cares about piddly little details like that when ur firing up the discussion forum barbeque. Then you demonstrate intellectual agility that would make any cerelity leap skulk proud, you duck, weave, spin, leap, spin, leap and flip to avoid realising that illuminx is referring to things like heart transplants for that fat guy you see stuffing himself at maccas before going out side, and a new set of lungs for that guy on the corner lighting up. Make no mistake - you want a welfare system like Australia (and I like Australia's system), then you are going to spend a full 1/5, thats right, ONE FIFTH, of your GDP on it. Thats what Australia spends to keep everyone health - both on the deserving and the undeserving.
But all that isnt half as interesting as illuminex the brutal darwinian advocate, so please continue your delusional tirade, maybe it will release stress so you wont suffer from one of those breakdowns you tricked yourself into thinking illuminex wants for the poor people. Then go and check out <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80580' target='_blank'>this thread</a> and figure out exactly where you fit in the scheme of things.
Him: "If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. "
" The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives"
(Ironically enough he states outright that he has no idea what the hell is going on with retirement packages - it's not people retiring without 'ample' retirement - it's the companies they worked for that are stripping them away. You don't just quit your career and get a new one.)
Me: "WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"
Seems like an apt comparison.
Me: "OMG LOL UR NOOB EDUCATION IS RETARDED LOL I GREW UP IN A RICH NEIGHBORHOOD INNER-CITY KIDS DESERVE TO BE DUM"
Him: No. He didn't even talk about education. But first, let's look at his next nugget of well-thought-out empathatic joy.
Him: "a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for."
"Now, if Joe had..."
Me: "ROFL LOL I DONT CARE ABOUT RETIREMENT ITS THAT AVERAGE WORKERS FAULT FOR NOT WANTING TO SACRAFICE ALL OF HIS BENEFITS AND HALF HIS PAYCHECK"
Sacrafice benefits? How about this: "he also understands that the private sector will always be cheaper and more efficient than the government."
Obviously illuminex has 1) Never been in a hospital, and 2) Has no idea how much even basic healthcare costs.
Now going back, he's made TWO replies (and only two) to my post, BOTH of which blame the countries problems on the people that are having them. I don't see him saying he'd feel that inner-city kids in Chicago 't deserve better education. He certainly doesn't give a **** about anyone else.
All he said in his post was that "All of the worlds problems would be removed by killing the people complaining about them". He's not in favor of finding a solution to the problems. He's made that much abundently clear. He's in favor of not helping the people and instead making fun of them with trite phrases about topics he has zero experience with.
By the way, I enjoy your abstract method of flaming, Marine. You can claim I put words in people's mouths all the time, but don't you DARE try to complain about other people's 'emotional arguments', ESPECIALLY when the person you acuse of 'using emotions' REJECTED being force-fed a fantasy-land of religion, the same of which you accepted. At least my emotions are MINE ALONE, and not the same as what some dead guy told you to 1,900 years ago.
(Go ahead, complain about me 'offending your religion'. Because you can believe whatever you want in the bible you live by, I believe whatever I want, and I believe the bible was written by a powerful upper-class to keep the peasants in line. But that is not the point of this thread (I'm just covering my bases for your flamebait posts you like to make).) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please read my edit on the previous page, you would have been typing the above whilst I was typing it.
I do have an abstract method of flaming, and I must admit your post has kinda brought me out in arms. I have emotional arguments for religion - but I never, EVER go "OMG YOU HERETIC FOOLS JESUS LOVES U FFS YOU MUST BE THE STUPIDIST PEOPLE I'VE EVER MET YOUR ALL GOING TO BURN!!!111" which seems to fast becoming your staple post.
I pity you EEK, you believe something with the same zeal and feverency as any religious zealot, and like them you think you are right, absolutely right, and everyone else is stupid and without the truth. The same things you bash religious people for are your day to day actions. You've got the truth - everyone else is stupid. Good to see the spirit of the Middle Ages Catholic church is alive and well in our atheist population.
You cant "offend" my religion, because I take all assaults on it as challenges, instead of crying about how nasty people are being.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. He mentioned the Average Joe Worker <b>SPECIFICALLY</b>. There was a very short passing comment about how the problem could be the fault of unions, but that is just plain stupid. The people at Enron weren't part of a union. My father who works for Mitel isn't a union. My girlfriend's dad is a carpenter and he's not part of a union. My neighbor worked in a Pharmacy and she's not part of a union. In fact, the eight pharmacists I worked with weren't unionized. Why? Because Eckered will NOT allow unionized labor. Unions themselves I think are frivulous and silly. At a core, they are a good idea: The ensure basic rights and privledges for workers. In execution they're a joke. Unionized labor costs twice as much and is half as productive. They whine and complain a lot.
Secondly, I'd rather my tax money be spent on keeping humans alive and ensuring a good life to others then being spent on drafting constitutional amendments to preserve good christian ideals.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It's an interesting thing you talk about average Joe. See, the reality of outsourcing is that a company knows average Apu is going to do his job without an attitude to the best of his ability because Apu's work ethic is stronger than Joe's, plus Apu will work for half of what Joe will work for. Efficiency and profit go up all around, and stockholder Ken gets more dividends. Now, if Joe had placed his eggs in a few baskets, Joe could be making money off of outsourcing.
Job competition is a hard thing in our over-unionized country, and unions, instead of backing off and making union works more competitive, starting pushing even harder on companies, making them want to outsource jobs that much more. Ironic, isn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesnt sound like he's blaming Joe for outsourcing, just said he could have managed it better.
I dont follow your argument sorry, everyone you know isnt in a union, so obviously unions dont pressure anyone to outsource? I dont get it. You then go on to explain the background of why companies dont like unions, and when they deal with them feel pressured to outsource. Why is his idea stupid?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Secondly, I'd rather my tax money be spent on keeping humans alive and ensuring a good life to others then being spent on drafting constitutional amendments to preserve good christian ideals.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Democracy sucks eh?
Secondly, I don't know of any 'tech support union' that Dell had hired. Unless you can show me one.
Him: "If people would take care of themselves, things like prescription drugs would be such a rarer thing. "
" The people who retired without decent savings are paying the price of living unhealthy lives"
(Ironically enough he states outright that he has no idea what the hell is going on with retirement packages - it's not people retiring without 'ample' retirement - it's the companies they worked for that are stripping them away. You don't just quit your career and get a new one.)
Me: "WHO CARES ABOUT HEALTHCARE MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T GET CANCER NEXT TIME??? I AM HELTHY EVERYONE SHUD B 2!!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
Its
"I eat 2 times my wieght in potato chips, smoke 3 packs a day. and drink my self into a stooper evernight; despite every doctor telling me not to. Now take care of me!"
I have an idea, why not address the ideas and not try to make people look bad by warping what they say. We are all literate here and can read the posts for ourselves, we dont need you to do that for us.
As for the issue of healthcare, anything the government touches turns to crap (look at wellfare). I want them as far as way from my healthcare as possible. And before you try any insights into my life; yes, I pay for my own health care plan. The government never fixes its programs, its just throws more money at them. That said, Bush has a great idea for making healthcare cheaper for smaller businesses. Allowing small companies to pull together to get cheaper healthcare is great. As for the healthcare is getting more expensive. We cannot blame the government for this, rather our own greed. We have become a nation of trial lawyers, sue anyone over the smallest mistake. When doctors pay almost half of their income to malpractice insurance, of course they are going to raise prices. Thusly, your premium will go up. The Bush ticket also wants to put caps on malpractice lawsuites. This would make doctor bill go down, and thusly healthcare. They just need watch that they dont limit pay outs for everything.
Obviously illuminex has 1) Never been in a hospital, and 2) Has no idea how much even basic healthcare costs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.wellmark.com/news/issue_brief_sd.pdf' target='_blank'>edify</a> <a href='http://peerspectives.org/index.peer?page=main&storyid=5400' target='_blank'>yourself.</a>
<a href='http://www.towersperrin.com/tillinghast/press/2003_press/pr12102003.htm' target='_blank'>rising health care costs?</a>
<a href='http://insurance.about.com/library/weekly/aahealthcosts070901.htm' target='_blank'>it's been happening for a while</a>
<a href='http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4968&sequence=0' target='_blank'>more</a> <a href='http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03702.pdf' target='_blank'>stuff</a>
so anyone want to prove that Bush is the one who's causing it, and not just the target of misplaced leftist vitriol?
*edit* sorry, one of the links didn't work.
Anyway I'm just saying this. I find political debates on gaming forums to be stupid since the average poster 1) Knows nothing about politics, 2) Only cares about poliitcal issues to the extent of 'GUNZ R KOOL' and 3) Refuses to think about other people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I care such things, however I feel they are better covered by the states or the individual. I do not see why it is the job of the federal government to provide beyond basic healthcare.
Maybe you can help me find the name of the bill he signed that raised the cost of healthcare?
I have a job. My healthcare costs have not increased.
You have a real bad habit of making sweeping statements and then arguing that you do not need supporting evidence. That does not go far in an arguement.
I will cede points. I am not a fan of president Bush. If you provide evidence of why I should not support him then by all means do.
USAPATRIOTACT? Of course, thats also a reason you shouldn't support Kerry...
Remember, I'm shallow because I won't support the obese smoker with my paycheck.
Remember, I'm disgusting because I don't think I should be forced to pay for someone else's bad money decisions.
Remember, because I'm trying to point out why outsourcing is a problem, the fact that unions are not willing to try and work with companies to make their workers competitive, and the fact that American workers are too hand fed to use the system for what it is for, I'm cold and heartless.
I said nothing about "sacrificing benefits" or "losing half of their paycheck." Nice try, but you lose. I said more competitive, whatever that might mean. Unions are unwilling to make any compromise or to really work with a company on things like pay or benefits. Union bosses make tons of profit, and Union workers get politics. So, companies see that they have no way of getting any support from unions, and they leave. I would too.
EEK, sorry about your friend, but it isn't the government's job to pay for pills. Those Christians you love to attack have better and fairer charities that would help him out, and there are so many not-for-profit groups out there with similar causes, government healthcare is not needed.
Here's the reality: most of the major diseases in America are preventible. Wait, that sure does give a lot of weight to my side. Meanwhile, you cry about "short sided." Righto, go ahead.
So what is the deal here with you? My whole point is that people should think ahead, specifically with health and money. That's a dangerous point to make, since most people don't and don't like to be reminded that they are not.
Label me all you want, your method will never really help people, but mine forces people to help themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He does have a point that most of you that think that way is selfish and ego-centered.. No offense but that is the nature of some of the arguments you come up with.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This made me laugh. My point has all along been that people are, in 95 % of cases, able to take care of themselves just fine and if they aren't meeting that standard, it was their choice. The 5 % who seriously cannot take care of themselves can be taken care of by family, friends, local charities, etc. There is a wealth of people who do real good in the world. It is wrong that I should be forced to pay for Jimmy with a tumor. I'll give him some money on my own time, thanks. That's the point.
The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them..
No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering..
The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them..
No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
20-50% in income (not including state, city, sales, and property) taxes is hardly "0.00001%".
and...by the way. the reason health care costs are rising is because hospitals are forced to treat people who don't have insurance, even if they can't pay. Many people go to the emergency rooms on false alarms, that costs a lot.
I want to see someone refute the evidence i posted earlier. As you can clearly see, managed health-care costs started going up well before Clinton's second term in office.
The organisation that the state can provide while taking a small fraction of people's earning so that most can get a decent living is irreplaceable and I wouldnt count on people just going out and share the money to be as effective.. So if you care about other people's well-being you wouldnt be so quick to condemn them..
No, not all 100% gets help and can help themselves, sadly.. And quite frankly, I dont like other people's suffering.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not really true Epidemic. You are paying .0000001% of his tumour operation, but you are also paying that .000001% for thousands of other operations that people have. As I said, in Australia we spend fully 1/5 of our GDP on the PBS scheme (medicine subsidation) and Medicare, the Goverment Medical Welfare organisation. That hurts at tax time.