Kharaa Scientific Documents: How Xenocide Works

the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
edited October 2004 in Fan-Fiction Forum
<div class="IPBDescription">part of a continuing series</div> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Courier'>DIRECTORY: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29447&st=91' target='_blank'>click to view links others in this series</a></span>

I am now up to the part where I am building the scientific background behind my fan-fic <i>The Hivemind</i> of which the boring teaser log containing much useful information is located here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80201' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=80201</a>
(the story is told entirely from the hivemind's perspective and is "quite engaging" after I had a friend read though it) After reading though the story you should be quite inspired to go alien and motivated to kill the humans. But first, thing first. Now onto the background. I am working extensively on the science behind the functions trying to make the chemistry, anatomy, physiology, and physics as realisitic as I can. I would greatly appreciate officialization as I continue but I doubt anyone is taking the fan fiction with much seriousness which is disappointing.
Anyways onto the interesting stuff:</span>
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<span style='color:yellow'>What is xenocide?</span>

It is a large scale energy suicide attack carried out by the expendable motile diploid units of the Kharaa collective known as "skulks". It requires a triple overlay in the aerial energy network provided from a minimum of three of the sessile "hive" structures (also dipoid). The skulk explodes with a violent force when the xenocide is stimulated and the shock wave is enough to kill or seriously injure a person. The claw like limbs can somewhat have the effect of shapnel capable of piercing armor.

<span style='color:yellow'>What causes the explosion?</span>

The chemical responsible for this explosion is <a href='http://www.reciprocalnet.org/recipnet/showsample.jsp?sampleId=27344327' target='_blank'>octanitrocubane</a>. (besure to play with the 3D java applet)
~details~<ul><li>molecular formula: C8N8O16</li><li>density: 2 g/cm3</li><li>molecular weight: 464.132(1) g/mol.</li><li>it is impact insensitive</li></ul>It is a primary storage chemical for all of the Kharaa functioning much like glycogen in earth lifeforms. Kharaa store this energy in the distorted carbon bonds in special vacuoles in the fat cells. When there are three hives or more the skulks are finally able to synthesize enough of the compound and get activated though a hormone sequence activated by three seperate hives (each hive makes it's own hormone tracer). A complete set activates the release of a secondary hormone from the skulk's "pituitary gland" which then increases conversion of all storage chemicals such as fatty acids into this compound and readies growth of "detonation" organelles which will provide the sudden electrical charge necessary to start a rapid chain reaction. It is presumed that early methods of xenocide simply lit the skulk on fire as the octanitrocubane was not detonated fast enough to make an instantneous expolsion. Obviously skulks have evolve such that they can now detonate all of their explosive chemical in under .06 seconds. This usually also involve a massive screaching noise as the skulk is inhailing air directly into it's tissues, (as extra oxygen helps the explosion be faster) but really this short charge-up is to litterally electrically charge-up the detonation organelles like capacitors and then the charge jumps. THe system is aided in synchonization from neuromuscular junctions and a clever electrical link system with delay neurons to help keep the synchonized detonation as perfect as possible.

<span style='color:yellow'>So can there be a way to prevent a skulk from developing xenocide capabilities?</span>

Unfortunately no sample of Kharaa skulk tissue in the three hive activation stage has been isolated in the lab so certain mysteries remain, such as why skulks would loose this ability as soon as there are less than three hives. Obviously such information would prove vital to the TSA in hopes of preventing aliens from gaining the new abilites from multiple hives. But it is reasonable to assume that even if a counter measure was developed, the rapid adapation rate of the Kharaa would find a way arround it.
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Comments

  • Mad_ivansMad_ivans Join Date: 2004-08-24 Member: 30849Members
    Good Work i enjoy it's creativity
  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Meh, I don't make science, I mimic it. Kudos for doing the research though.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    Thank you. I did do a lot of thinking and applying science to science fiction is a particular apsected passion of mine.

    ~edit~ adding resource for next section: how offense chambers work

    <a href='http://www.umassgreeninfo.org/fact_sheets/diseases/spore_shooters.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.umassgreeninfo.org/fact_sheets/...re_shooters.pdf</a>

    Note: Remember, the Kharaa is a unique multicelluar colony organism which is a descendant of thermophilic archaea and exhibits traits of both a fungi and an animal. (explained in one of my earlier posts) The Kharaa used to use the offense chamber as a means of reproduction disperal but it has since evolved away from reproduction and the spores have become large spikes and the compression chamber is much stonger. (the lerk make this obsolete) Anyways I want to let you all see where the next idea is comming from and a little bit into how I'm using scientific fact (and proven successful naturally selected biological techniques) to expand depth of the NS universe and help explain how things work. Not to mention it is totally bad-****. I mean, jeeze octanitrocubane is deadly stuff. Now you really know why you should fear the three hive skulk! Imho! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    Besides, what's a <i>Science</i> Fiction mod without the <i>Science</i>. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    I like the part how no tissues samples of 3 hive aliens have been recoved <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    and in the manual it states that the ribs actually are designed to break apart upon xenocide to create more shrapenel
  • Vash_Fourty_Five_LcVash_Fourty_Five_Lc Join Date: 2003-06-01 Member: 16913Members
    Very very nice. Hope you all are compiling this to present to the Devs, would make for a great updated manual..
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Vash TS .45L.C.+Sep 15 2004, 01:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vash TS .45L.C. @ Sep 15 2004, 01:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Very very nice.  Hope you all are compiling this to present to the Devs, would make for a great updated manual.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know how to do that. I would love to be a "science officer" for the NS dev team, but I don't know how to get thier attention. (without comming off as annoying)

    PS: Still waiting for someone to answer my dilemma question: I want to donate and become part of the constellation but due to extenuating circumstances I don't know if I can get them my SteamID. (unless there's someway to retrieve it offline or though a different computer, I don't know how)
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-That Annoying Kid+Sep 14 2004, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Sep 14 2004, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like the part how no tissues samples of 3 hive aliens have been recoved <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    and in the manual it states that the ribs actually are designed to break apart upon xenocide to create more shrapenel <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know this. Marrow has I high concentration of fat cells, thus making the individual ribs like nini explosive sticks of their own. Technically I think the animation should be edited a little so that the skulk explodes and then the ribs explode a split second after.

    ~edit~

    Idea:

    there cold be a method using NS in the HL2 engine where you can drag an enemy skulk's body to the protolab and then you can do research on a countermeasure. If the aliens have sufficent res they can then also make a counter-counter measure to get their abilities back.
  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just realized the question I wanted to ask: where do you get this kind of info?
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    School mostly. I keep my class notes.
  • RiotingNerdRiotingNerd Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20896Members
    I hate bumping this topic, but i've set it once, and I'll say it again. Meatloaf and paperclips. How can you possibly make up science? They're aliens, you can't possibly have facts, because there is no way to know that they aren't made up of meatloaf and paperclips.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    Especially since it's fiction... I hate trying to break down the science of something that you can have no possible idea how things work..

    Attempting to apply earth sciences to alien life is impossible at best..

    Part of the reasons I hate hollywoods attempts at aliens for the most part..

    They all have eyes, nose and mouth (pretty much)..

    I just find it arrogant when we try to put our knowledge (which is incredibly limited) against what there is to know..
  • StavesacreStavesacre Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20816Members, Constellation
    There is a large difference in Science and Science Fiction.

    You cant tell me that an author could make a convincing Sci Fi novel if he didnt have some sort of theory or explanation behind some of the things he/she was writing about.

    Rioting Nerd: You can't make up science but you can definately apply scientific theory to Fictinal things. Thats what makes Sci Fi.

    I for one applaude x5's little write ups. They are most definately entertaining, just like the 1.0 manual was, with its field journals and all. It gave the game a much deeper atmosphere for me and my wife when we started playing. And it helped turn on alot of my Marine buddies when we were on deployment. As a result it got more people interested in playing.

    A game with a good backstory is hard to find these days anyway.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    All of the most entertaining Sci-fi, I've read is where they didn't explain how things worked (and let's face it 99.9999% of authors don't), except to say they just did..

    For example in the Rama Series Arthur C. Clarke. Did he explain how the avians flew with their leather like wings?? No.. It's just an accpeted fact they did.

    George Orwell, War of the Worlds, do you know why Oxygen killed the aliens? No, of course not.. It was just accepted that it did..

    Take a look back at Sci-fi.. They don't usually explain why things are the way they are, but rather have the reader suspend disbelief. This also makes all things possible, and prevents a writer from boxing themselves in a corner by eliminating the possibility of eliminating something they may need later.

    One of the reasons the words Nanites and Bacterium are used so much is because the general player doesn't care about the incredible specifics, they just suspend belief and believe..

    How does a lerk fly? I certainly doesn't beat it's wings fast enough to create lift....

    How does an onos climb a ladder?

    How can a fade crouch with those knees?

    And since the skulks feet are bladed, how does it build any propulsion to leap (it doesn't crouch or have any muscles to produce force)?

    See what I mean, and there are many more.. Gorges can't climb ladders..

    Explain how the jetpacks use auto-refillable fuel with no containment?

    Suspend disbelief is the only way.
  • NegativityNegativity Join Date: 2004-08-08 Member: 30463Members
    edited October 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Oct 22 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Oct 22 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> George Orwell, War of the Worlds, do you know why Oxygen killed the aliens? No, of course not.. It was just accepted that it did..
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ermmm...H. G. Wells wrote that book and bacteria killed the aliens... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • RiotingNerdRiotingNerd Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20896Members
    I agree that there is definately a science element to every piece of sci fi, but as zunni pointed out, it is (almost) never explained. and if it is, it is only used to prove other things within the novel. the problem is when you start trying to pass it off as fact. almost every topic x5 posts in the I&S forum is linked to one of his "scientific fact" topics as a reason for why his idea should be introduced (read: oc's need water to shoot idea). You cant make something up, and then use it to legitimize something else.

    "Hey guys elephants have tusks therefore onos have tusks theyre just INSIDE THEIR BODY! I mean come on it must be true!!11~!~!`1~!"

    "hey if you can milk a cow then onos definately are milkable but oh i forgot goats also exists so i guess you milk onos like a cow but you get goat milk I SWEAR ITS SCIENCE!"

    "on earth we have water so therefore kharaa are made of water. the hive is actually a glass of water projecting a hologram of a hive and when you run into it its actually a force field of ice thats at -100000 degrees celcius. i mean seriously when was the last time you felt a hive and it was WARM? theres cold things on earth so hives must be cold"

    i could type up a million more of these, but i feel myself getting dumber by the second
  • MichaelMichael Join Date: 2004-10-22 Member: 32400Members
    I was just thinking (a dangerous thing at best) and with this kind of fiction you can't take everything ad-verbatim.
    If you have read fiction made from games the author can't take everything that happens in the game and put in it in his story and you can't take everything in his story and apply it in the game. You said onos can't climb ladders, ok so they can't. But that doesn't mean they have to in your book.
    I like what x5 is doing because it'll help other authors construct action sequnces and it gives a feeling of immersion into the game as well. I'd like to hear what he says next about alien abilities <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .

    Oh and roitingnerd calm down IT IS JUST FICTION

    keep up the good work x5
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Oct 22 2004, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Oct 22 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> George Orwell, War of the Worlds, do you know why Oxygen killed the aliens? No, of course not.. It was just accepted that it did..
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ermmm...H. G. Wells wrote that book and bacteria killed the aliens... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Aaargh!!! you are right of course.. (This is what happens when I make random statements without checking with Google)

    We learn it's human bacteria but not that it infiltrates the 3 ventricle on the left causing a minor hemmorage in the casing of it's Brain..

    The detail is left to teh reader to imagine..
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    My fear isn't using some scientific explanation in a fictional story.. it's when there is talk about trying to get this into a manual... That makes it fact...

    And that's what I'm mostly worried about..

    I don't want there to be a scientific explanation for something as wonderful as how lerks fly..
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    That is you opinion Zunni and I respect that, but I strongly disagree.

    /me points to "Star Wars universe"
    /me points to "Star Trek universe"
    /me points to "Star Gate universe"
    /me points to "Andromeda universe"
    /me points to "Far Scape universe"
    /me get tired ot pointing

    Fact: NS is Flayra's Sci-Fi mod

    SciFi fans love detail in the backstory. Some sort of science to help them uderstand it better and get more into it.

    Now that list I was point to is in descending order of how much fan fiction created backstory exists but I must say I love reading all those technical books about the Star Wars and Star Trek stuff.

    I know it's your job on the NS team to filter and stiffle creativity, but if you are opposed... I'll ask Charlie what he thinks of this, as it is his mod after all.

    Since this revision of mine is beginning to start some misgivings I will now open my little project up to an open team colloboration. Perhaps if I have multiple people working with me on this it will yield a more thorough final product. Expect a thread to appear in the colloborations forum with Charlie's response in a few days. If this is an officially approved project you can expect a deadline.

    PS: This is an interesting arguement about artistic integrity. I think Nemesis Zero would enjoy to be included in this discussion.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited October 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-x5+Oct 25 2004, 07:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (x5 @ Oct 25 2004, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I know it's your job on the NS team to filter and stiffle creativity, but if you are opposed... I'll ask Charlie what he thinks of this, as it is his mod after all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Burncycle could identify this as being one of those situation where I'm not reading the social cues and unintentionally insults some one. <span style='color:orange'>*smacks forehead* Arg! Damnit x5... </span><!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni. normally wouldn't post this but I'm making a public apology for hurting your feelings+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni. normally wouldn't post this but I'm making a public apology for hurting your feelings)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My job is certainly not to stifle creativity, I actively promote the creation of maps, sounds, models in fact.. the whole gambit of customization. (I'm wokring on a fan-fic story atm) I also promote fan sites some of which include other pieces of "fan fiction" or 3rd party creative works.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ah yes I saw that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I feel I speak for myself and others when I say I'm glad to see you participating in that area of creativity.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would certainly not be opposed to the creation of a fan based, scientific manual, provided that's where it stays. Having technical descriptions for things severly limits the future applications of tehnology. Putting rules/boundries (laws) on sci-fi paints the creators into a corner. It's very difficult to explain a new alien ability, or a significant change in one when there is documentation to support a previous version of something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This was why I suggested it was up to Flayra. I'm not going to be and arrogant **** and demand this little project of mine is made official, especially with out community collaboration. I do see why you say it's painting the developers into a corner but not to the degree that you do. For every door that closes, another opens. So you wouldn't be able to turn skulks into fire mages and give marines the ability to turn into pink bunnies and teleport though walls and place mini nukes around the map. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> In other ways I can see how a whole bunch more ideas can be pulled from this source material. Regardless there is only one person who can make that call, and his name is Charlie.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for your example, none of the examples given were created at the request of the original creator of the series and therefore can be taken with a grain of salt when creating new material for the franchise. I see this as where your work also fits in, an entertaining read, but certainly not the basis on which the game is developed in the future. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're absolutely right.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Threatening me, by effectively stating "I'm gonna go tell Flayra!!" is not an appropriate stance to take and actually hurts my feelings. For you to come across as so arrogant in your stance to me also hurts my feelings.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ah crap. <_< Now I feel like a jerk. My whole point was to involve Flayra not to jump over you and insult you. I feel bad that I hurt your feelings or insulted you. Pehaps the worst was by me saying you were filtering&stiffling creativity. Make no mistake, your handling of the I&S is impeciable and I only wish if I were in your shoes I could do just as well at that hard job. I really do appreciate your work, this is a case of me "putting my foot in my mouth."

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->TBH, your constant referalls to how you are "working" with the dev team, is starting to wear a little thin on me, you offered your help concerning coding, I politely refused and suggested you get more involved in the community. Your opinion has no more influence over any of the development staff than anyone elses and to state something to the contrary is incorrect. You don't have this "secret" relationship with the development staff, stop dropping hints and suggestions to the contrary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Point taken. Will be followed immediately.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you develop some excellent technical documentation, I'd be happy to highlight it as an account of the technology in the game. I explained previously what my reservation about this is and I stand by that.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thank you.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are entitled to "go to Flayra" with this, and perhaps his opinion will differ from mine. I simply give my opinion and when asked for feedback (because the chances that the dev team will be asked for feedback is good) I'll simply restate my issues. My opinion is not any more important than anyone elses. I was not speaking on behalf of Flayra, but rather sharing with you my opinion concerning the information provided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Understood. Please let my reiterate why reasoning by point to the above

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you spoken to Nem about this? I'd be curious as to what he thinks?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not yet but I'd be happy to right after writing this. One priority at a time.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't take this as a flamatory post, but your response was not appropriate in my opinion, it legitimatelly hurt my feelings..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No flamatory-ness at all m8. I think if I were in your postion I would have done the same.

    Again I'm sorry that I offended you and much more so that I hurt your feelings. I hope my occasional stupid antics will not ruin my ability to call you friend.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    OK now you are gonna make me get all emotional.. ..

    /me grabs X5 puts him in a headlock and gives him a noogie..

    Apology accepted..

    No harm no foul.. I appreciate you expounding on your original thoughts....

    BTW, I am interested to see what you come up with the questions I posed.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Oct 25 2004, 09:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Oct 25 2004, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me grabs X5 puts him in a headlock and gives him a noogie.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Too kind. I deserve to get a whooping slap across the face. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    *sigh* Unfortunately I have to leave on this note but it will be interesting what Flayra and Nem0 will have to say about all this. I also think you should talk to burncycle as he knows more of why I sometimes do stupid stuff like this. (tell him it's ok to to tell you, I really wasn't going to want him to tell anyone else but after this you need to be made an exception)
  • StavesacreStavesacre Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20816Members, Constellation
    Can you feel the love?

    Hey isn't Nightowl working on updating the manual for the official 3.0 release?
    Would it be applicable to stick in bits of "journal" or even some "inconclusive scientific findings" into it, similar in scope to the way the 1.0 manual was laid out?
    I really enjoyed the old manual, some of those field records about alien abilities were really awesome.
  • krimsonkrimson Join Date: 2002-07-04 Member: 881Members
    wow. this is a pretty serious thread all of a sudden.

    i feel akward even posting hah.

    i, for one, was very interested in the little back story. for all i know of ... science... stuff, it seemed to make sense to me.

    i guess its one of those things that needs to go on the "its all in good fun" board.

    i think that by the way the quoting and stuff is in this thread, there are posts missing, and i really dont care to comment on them, or get into business i know nothing about, but im glad that the both of you could reach an understanding, because you two (regarldless of official statuses on this board/project) are both big contributers to the scene, and it would be a shame to have some sort of akward unpleasantness mingleing about.

    anyways. i liked the story. the end.
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    I tried to get here as soon as my early morning appointment was finished so I could post the following. (I'm skipping reading my inbox messages until after I post this)

    to Charlie (Flayra), Florian (Nemesis Zero), and all other interested people here is my pledge to you should this scientific data part of guide be made official:
    <span style='color:00EE00'><ul><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Impact'></li><li>Collaboration</li><li>Deadline</li><li>Detail</li><li>Integration</span></span></span></li></ul>In otherwords, teamwork (communication with devs and NSGuides, maybe combining NightOwls gameplay guide project with my different project on the background, working with fan fiction authors, open edit, etc.), the project will have a clear deadline which I will discuss probably with Nemesis Zero and will have to hold to, detail means I will actually put in all my free time not hanging out but rather in the library and text books looking for links to explain the various phenomina (end result being you have more detail than you can shake a stick at, a whole bunch of quantifier numbers and specific ganetic sequences, my goal on this one is to make it close enough that you should feel you have enough data make a Kharaa collective yourself), and intergation means connecting the backstory to the game better (kinda ties in with collaboration).

    The primary goal will be <i>quality first</i> and I will place creation of this guide as my main priority until it's finished.

    The secondary goal is to have a final product which you all can be proud of. If you can't boast it off to you parents or teachers as proof that you do learn things from gamming then I have not served you well enough. Science is fun, allow me the chance to prove it to you all.


    signed,

    <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <span style='color:red'><b>x5</b></span> <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    (now I'm off to read those two PMs in my inbox)
  • BulletHeadBulletHead Join Date: 2004-07-22 Member: 30049Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Oct 22 2004, 01:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Oct 22 2004, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All of the most entertaining Sci-fi, I've read is where they didn't explain how things worked (and let's face it 99.9999% of authors don't), except to say they just did..

    For example in the Rama Series Arthur C. Clarke. Did he explain how the avians flew with their leather like wings?? No.. It's just an accpeted fact they did.

    George Orwell, War of the Worlds, do you know why Oxygen killed the aliens? No, of course not.. It was just accepted that it did..

    Take a look back at Sci-fi.. They don't usually explain why things are the way they are, but rather have the reader suspend disbelief. This also makes all things possible, and prevents a writer from boxing themselves in a corner by eliminating the possibility of eliminating something they may need later.

    One of the reasons the words Nanites and Bacterium are used so much is because the general player doesn't care about the incredible specifics, they just suspend belief and believe..

    How does a lerk fly? I certainly doesn't beat it's wings fast enough to create lift....

    How does an onos climb a ladder?

    How can a fade crouch with those knees?

    And since the skulks feet are bladed, how does it build any propulsion to leap (it doesn't crouch or have any muscles to produce force)?

    See what I mean, and there are many more.. Gorges can't climb ladders..

    Explain how the jetpacks use auto-refillable fuel with no containment?

    Suspend disbelief is the only way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But Gene Roddenberry, in Star Trek, made one of the worlds BEST KNOWN sci-fi movies AND series ever... using science FACT.

    Antimatter- we got it. All we do is take som deutirum (hydrodgen 2 atoms) and put it thru a particle accelorator, forming something simply called anti-hydrogen. Then, we freeze the anti-hydrogen, and boom, anti-matter. we can only keep a few molecules in statis tho (they must be supported in an electromagnetic field lest they touch so much as a speck of DUST... or else BOOM)

    Impulse Drive- simply put... it's a rocket.... or more advanced, like today's Ionic Propulsion Engines (still being tested, but found to be VERY effective)

    Warp Drive- theoretically possibly, but not with todays technology (you see, according to Einsteins theory of Relativity, you can NOT go faster than the speed of ilght. As you know, the faster you go towards the speed of light, the slower time moves for you... well... at the speed of light, time STOPS.... a warp core would create a bubble in which it is essentially an alternate universe... and thus would allow FTL travel... all a warp bubble is is simply an electromagnetic field containing special particles the name of which I can't remember... I think it's neutrinos... that reduce the apparent mass of the vessel... since speed is directltly proportionate to mass x energy applied, that would mean you can get past the statis point of light speed before the universe "realizes" you're really going that fast)

    Photon / Quantum torpedo- really simple... it's what happens when anti-matter and matter touch... a Quantum torpedo streatches these 2 componantes in a 6 dimensional 0 point clean vaccume, thus allowing a much fuller detonation

    Cloaking Device- a feasable, and already in use, possibility. In Star Trek it's done using a high power electromagnetic field to "bend" light around the ship... which wouild happen given enough power. Today we use Fiber Optic tubes instead <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Teleporter- ah yes... the famous teleporter... BEAM ME UP, SCOTTY! this is now a reality... several US, British, Japanese, German, and Australian scientists working in a lab in Germany have managed to teleport beams of light, composed of ONLY photons mind you, from one room, thru a solid wall, and into another room nearby. They also managed to "teleport" a beam of light from one building into another. The teleport pads are still classified, but I presume they work on a basis of transmutation from organic to electric and back... the problem is, due to the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principal, we cannot both monitor the direction of sub atomic particles AND monitor their speed... as such, we can only move photons as of now. We would need to devise a way to get around this small isssue... or else Janeway would go into the teleporter as Janeway... and come out as Janeway Goo...
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    edited October 2004
    I love you BulletHead. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Wonderful information and right on with your point.

    SciFi = <i>Science</i> + Fiction

    And actually I believe that all fiction imagined is happening in some continium somewhere. The is an inifinite number of paralle universes and I'd imagine that there can even be completely different universal laws of physics in some. Infinite possibilities means that anything you can imagine is happening. (so next time bad things happen to you get angry at the person who imagined it in another continium)

    But anyway I totally agree with what BulletHead said and want to add that I'm researching the creme de la creme of naturally selected superior biological systems to relate to what would clearly be the most superior biological organism humanity has encountered, the Kharaa.

    The Kharaa just pwn. Their cells and tissues are insanely fast growing and adaptable. They share a collective mind, something individualistic creatures like us pathetic huamns can't even fully comprehend. Everything about the Kharaa is dazling. To study them would be a biologist's greatest dream (or nightmare).

    <!--QuoteBegin-RiotingNerd+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RiotingNerd)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...-100000 degrees celcius ... i could type up a million more of these, but i feel myself getting dumber by the second<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, you are getting dumber. Look up "absolute zero". Maybe in another bizzare continium with totally different physics and fluffy bunnies where you can play with the Teletubbies and trip acid all day you can, but in this one you can't. I'm beginning to wish I had gone off on you instead of Zunni yesterday as you are the one who keeps trashing me with stupid flames and comments like that. I'm beginning to feel irritation at you.
  • Gecko_God_Of_DooomGecko_God_Of_Dooom Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26353Members
    I think this should be pointed out. Not all players need to read into X5s science facts of NS stuff. He brought up the point of the StarWars universe going into explination but they dont realy go into explination in the movies. If a person (or player) wants more information and to delve thier mind deeper.

    For example I was basicly reading all the info in the manual. then an hour later was playing on a random pub and some guys ask.

    "I love ns, but I just dont understand how the marine go up to a building and buld it"
    I started to explain the nanaites and everything else over the voice comm, then explained a little bit of the history. Then I explianed I have no life. heh heh.

    Immursain is what got me to love NS so much orignialy and I think by including some of the cool info x5 has made it will help add to it.

    Is it needed? No not realy.
    But like the TSA history and the Manual and the little cool stories behind some of the stuff. its kinda nice, and is there for anyone who wants to look deeper within the NS univierse. Just like the books for starwars and startech. etc.
  • ZunniZunni The best thing to happen to I&amp;S in a long while Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10016Members
    edited October 2004
    Exactly my opinion.. have it as an addendum to the manual, that's AOK with me..

    I'm just <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> that we are taking the guess work out of why something works the way it does.. Now in my fictional story I can't talk about a USA or Canada or anything else in the future, because my hands have been tied by a history already written...

    The same thing is going to happen here, instead of allowing an author to be creative and create something unique and wonderful, his hands will be tied by the scientific explanations of fictional things..

    Now I have to re-work my story to work it into someone else's "future" not my vision..

    Is that fair?
  • AlkillerAlkiller Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28847Members
    x5, we all know it's nice to have science fiction background but it's also a problem sometimes. I mean, let's say the fade is all of a sudden changed and acid rocket is replaced by a new ability, chunnel, that makes the fade go invisible for 4 seconds (just an example, don't go crazy Zunni <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). They decide to remove the acid rocket... firing... thingy... from the fade's model. All of a sudden, your manual is wrong, and if it was official, now you have gone and contradicted yourself and what was once fact about the fade is now gibberish.

    What I'm trying to say is, as long as NS keeps changing, no technical document can be certified officially. It's a nice read though, and none of us would mind if people based more fan fiction off this, but it just can't be made official.

    Good read, though.
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