Yes, marine comebacks are very accessable, but aliens arent. Once its ha/hmg with 3/3 upgrades and they've got a train rolling around, you really cant do anything. How do you prevent this? Well crap, its hard, all the commander has to do is hoard res, from RFK (which IMHO should be removed) and res intake from RTs. Once the equipment is laid down barily anything can stop them, thats a big problem.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's because there are too many "this isn't fun, why am I playing" moments in NS right now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's because there are too many "this isn't fun, why am I playing" moments in NS right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Sep 3 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Sep 3 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, you want us to make the onos and fade horribly unbalanced again (and probally, by-proxy, the jetpack since you're allready on that train of thought) so the game is more fun? Or do you just enjoy the ability to abuse unbalanced things in order to kill other people rather then the game itself because it tricks you into thinking you are more skillful then you actually are?
Think about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A good start would not be balancing the game for crappy players. Their tears merely fuel me.
I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I'll never forget the first day I heard about it. I had just got out of a scrim for CS (it's ok, PLEASE flame me for that haha), and my friend had IMed me about this pretty cool new mod. So I went and downloaded it, and I'll always remember my first impression of the game.
The server I joined happened to be playing ns_tanith at the time, and I had joined rines (coming from CS, I figured I'd be good with a gun heh). I saw turrets, and thought "that's pretty cool." So I walked out (not heeding anythign anyone said... the idea of real teamwork eluded me), and headed off. Next thing I knew, I saw my first skulk, and nearly crapped my pants because it had hit me so fast and killed me so quick. My heart was racing haha, I won't lie. From that point on, I was hooked. NS had, and still has that incredibly unique gameplay that no other mod can match.
Surely, two years of the same mod will get boring. So then why doesn't CS lose players? Because people love death match and just killing with no reason. NS will get "boring" because people playing for so long are used to DMC alien games, and eavy trains. You never see new tactics unless you go pugging. To be honest, yes, I have lost some interest in NS, and I'll have to take a few weeks break from really playing it. But then I go and play CS for the heck of it, and realize what I truly miss out of NS, that I don't see enough of anymore. Teamwork, sportsmanship, you know what I mean.
I miss the games where BOTH teams would say GG and really mean it at the end, because they would be hour long or more epic battles that would be back and forth the whole game.
Now, games are quick, fast paced and monotonous (sp?). But of course, this can mean two things: one, sure the devs have screwed up big time and changed too much. But if you ask my opinion, it's because the NS community has matured and is growing. There will be a phase of great gameplay where EVERYONE and their mom think its great, and that's generally the first releases of the game. Then it gets "lame" and "old" and that's where we are now. CS did the same thing. Now, we have to look ahead and realize that NS will definitely grow and become one heck of a mod. What they (the dev team, Flayra) have done with an over six year old engine is incredible.
I can only wish the best of luck to UWE, and be proud that I helped a) test and play the first game/mod it ever made and b) helped fund it with $20 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Sep 3 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Sep 3 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's because there are too many "this isn't fun, why am I playing" moments in NS right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What server do you play on. I randomly join servers and have yet to find a decent pub experience that made me to really want to play on that server again. I would love to play a game that has a decent comm or decent alien team.
I definitely agree that the NS community has changed. I seriously think that is was combat that made the game...go down hill. Combat turned NS into a brainless killing spree like CS. When I first played NS 1.0, I was amazed at the amount of team play involved. I think that is what captivated most of the original players. Now, most of the servers that used to host just NS maps usually do a rotation of NS/combat. I know there are NS only servers around, but the game just doesnt seen the same with the people that play now because of combat. The strategy was great. I wish there was a way to seperate the two games, because they REALLY are two different games. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Warrior+Sep 3 2004, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Warrior @ Sep 3 2004, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Sep 3 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Sep 3 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-JimBowen+Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JimBowen @ Sep 3 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Sep 3 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's because there are too many "this isn't fun, why am I playing" moments in NS right now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What server do you play on. I randomly join servers and have yet to find a decent pub experience that made me to really want to play on that server again. I would love to play a game that has a decent comm or decent alien team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My server is the Lunixmonster server.
www.lunixmonster.org
69.93.5.186:27015
Tonite you can't play, its regs only(being its the b5 rel and all)
This is going to make me extremely unpopular but I'm not here to make friends,
<b>1.) Flayra is an <u>over-compensator</u>.</b>
If a recipe is a little bland you add a pinch of salt at a time, not a pound. Follow the change logs from v1, you'll see changes that swing drastically from one extreme to the other. Slight problems are fixed with massive changes before the root cause of the problem is discovered.
I wouldn't go to Flayras' dinner parties... a pound of salt too much add a pound of sugar. Not right yet? Another pound of salt and then another pound of sugar, pretty soon you don't even know what tasted like what and why you added everything to begin with.
<b>2.) Flayra has no <u>logical method</u>.</b>
You can't listen to everyones advice, but you can't listen to nobody either. By using a combination of methods (polls/feedback forums/playtesters/public playtests) to find a common concensus you can manage and organize feedback to maximize your ability to problem solve priority issues. Basic market research skills could help... a little basic logic would be good too.
Consulting with a few outspoken veterens one day (Good reflexes doesn't always equal good feedback), then forum/IRC regulars one day (Winners of a popularity contests doesn't equal good feedback) , then watching a few tournaments one day (A few tournament/public games do not represent the whole), and then getting your horoscope from CoCo the Psychic Monkey one day doesn't make for a logical way to balance something as complicated with as many factors as NS.
<i><b>And by far the worst flaw...</i></b>
<b>3.) <u>Flayra tries to do too much, too fast and ends up putting way too much on his plate, leaving everything half done all the while loading even more stuff on.</u></b>
Do I need to remark on this one. I've been here since 6 months before the mod was released and if I have to say one thing that characterizes the development of NS it is #3.
Look, this is not a flame, in fact much of this has been said time and time again from this thread to threads long past. To those who advice is to "Stop playing NS" I can tell you I have and a long time ago.
Why am I still here? Because I think, and always have thought, the basic concept behind NS is a great idea. Perhaps I'm just torturing myself by thinking maybe, just maybe, Flay wil get his act together and turn this idea into something fully realized and entertaining... but I'm quickly losing hope.
And this new project he's working on that is suppose to use NS as a springboard (how much momentum do you get from a busted springboard?)... I can say after witnessing the development of NS I would not go out and get it immediately... probably wouldn't even consider it for at least 6 months to a year.
Have I been harsh? No matter, I'm sure Flay is too busy mounding more stuff on his plate to notice this... or the trail of half executed ideas that follow him.
EDiT: I wanted to add one final little piece of advice: QUALITY OVER QUANTITY
<!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Sep 3 2004, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Sep 3 2004, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDiT: I wanted to add one final little piece of advice: QUALITY OVER QUANTITY <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the man some credit. He's brought some petty little game based off an EXTREMELY old engine up out of the ground. NS is ranked the 5th most played and popular mod via steam. The fact that he has made such an overthetop and incredible mod from NOTHING is a hell of an achievement.
I'm not flaming you, please do not get that impression. All I'm saying is that you have to give the man some credit... he's trying to make a game company to rival people like EA and Valve themselves. I've seen him on many a forum, posting and replying to people's gripes, complaints, and compliments. He's as active as any man can humanly be--who is building and managing an upcoming company.
<3 for Charlie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Im not finding NS as fun as i used to because of the completely dead European clan scene.
Combat has really taken away from ns too. Sure its fun and good for a quick blast but you get the hoards of co_ only players who think cloak is actually any use and drop 1 sens chamber half aminute into the game and then quit the server to go to a co_ server after ruining the game for the aliens.
NS 1.04 had a sense of magic. The current versions of NS do not.
oh btw: I still think NS is graphically and gameplay-wise the most impressive HL mod by far, just take one look at other mods and compare the Immersion and originality and how far half lifes been stretched, and credit is not only due to Flayra but also to the past and current developers who continuously ease more out of an archaic game engine.
<!--QuoteBegin-mishterhaz+Sep 3 2004, 10:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mishterhaz @ Sep 3 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Sep 3 2004, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Sep 3 2004, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDiT: I wanted to add one final little piece of advice: QUALITY OVER QUANTITY <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Give the man some credit. He's brought some petty little game based off an EXTREMELY old engine up out of the ground. NS is ranked the 5th most played and popular mod via steam. The fact that he has made such an overthetop and incredible mod from NOTHING is a hell of an achievement.
I'm not flaming you, please do not get that impression. All I'm saying is that you have to give the man some credit... he's trying to make a game company to rival people like EA and Valve themselves. I've seen him on many a forum, posting and replying to people's gripes, complaints, and compliments. He's as active as any man can humanly be--who is building and managing an upcoming company.
<3 for Charlie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know you aren't flaming me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My beef isn't what Flayra is trying to accomplish... my beef is <i><b>how</b></i> Flayra is trying to accomplish it.
Since as long as I can remember Flayra had the intention of eventually developing NS into a retail game. I always thought it was a great idea and supported it 100%. Since the gameplay concept was still highly experimental developing it on the HL engine (which is free) would be a <u><b>PROOF OF CONCEPT</b></u>.
Herein lies my beef.
Would you say that the PROOF OF CONCEPT has been realized?
Don't think I don't <3 Flay... maybe the proof of that is I never wasted his time by agreeing with everything he did but by presenting my observations as honest and forthright as possible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Sep 3 2004, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Sep 3 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't think I don't <3 Flay... maybe the proof of that is I never wasted his time by agreeing with everything he did but by presenting my observations as honest and forthright as possible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Point well taken <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I see where you are coming from, and it would have been SO hot to walk into Babbages or GameStop and see "Natural-Selection" next to CS and HL boxes. Heck, people even went so far as to make purty looking retail boxes. But much like any game company, there will always be those DELAYS **cough valve cough** and changes. But to be honest, I believe Flay knows what he's doin'. I mean come on, anyone who saw that picture from CPL or whatever... he doesn't LOOK stupid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>3.) <u>Flayra tries to do too much, too fast and ends up putting way too much on his plate, leaving everything half done all the while loading even more stuff on.</u></b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Finally someone courageous enough to say out loud what many of us hated to think. This criticism of Flayra (and the dev team in general) was necessary , because it's obvious NS has lost its appeal to many of its long time fans : the playtesting method has to be changed. Obvious things such as huge bile bombs and vents too small to let a skulk through shouldn't be left in what wants to be a professional looking release. As said so many times before , the dev team needs to set its priorities straight...
I think the ns.org forums have the most motivated , NS-loving players of the NS gaming community , so there's no good reason to ignore their feedback and suggestions. So far , the majority wants to give Unchained Chambers a go in official NS releases. Yet nothing shows that the playtesters even tried it , and we're being told it won't be in because "Flayra thinks it's a bad idea".
Sensory chambers weren't a bad idea , yet they had little use until worthwhile changes were implemented in 2.0 ... see where I'm going ? Flayra isn't Einstein , so his opinion shouldn't outweight a competent brainstorming group's. (my atheist ideology , I actually said it <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
It is both saddening and sobering to see repeats of the same threads with almost identical arguments and rebuttals, almost identical raving and raging, but with different/new participants. Why do you even continue to fuel this fire?
Same with Natural Selection - when you start to see the sequence repeat itself, you know you've been around just about long enough. People move on or get trapped in routine.
Comments
thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment.
thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.
Think about it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A good start would not be balancing the game for crappy players. Their tears merely fuel me.
The server I joined happened to be playing ns_tanith at the time, and I had joined rines (coming from CS, I figured I'd be good with a gun heh). I saw turrets, and thought "that's pretty cool." So I walked out (not heeding anythign anyone said... the idea of real teamwork eluded me), and headed off. Next thing I knew, I saw my first skulk, and nearly crapped my pants because it had hit me so fast and killed me so quick. My heart was racing haha, I won't lie. From that point on, I was hooked. NS had, and still has that incredibly unique gameplay that no other mod can match.
Surely, two years of the same mod will get boring. So then why doesn't CS lose players? Because people love death match and just killing with no reason. NS will get "boring" because people playing for so long are used to DMC alien games, and eavy trains. You never see new tactics unless you go pugging. To be honest, yes, I have lost some interest in NS, and I'll have to take a few weeks break from really playing it. But then I go and play CS for the heck of it, and realize what I truly miss out of NS, that I don't see enough of anymore. Teamwork, sportsmanship, you know what I mean.
I miss the games where BOTH teams would say GG and really mean it at the end, because they would be hour long or more epic battles that would be back and forth the whole game.
Now, games are quick, fast paced and monotonous (sp?). But of course, this can mean two things: one, sure the devs have screwed up big time and changed too much. But if you ask my opinion, it's because the NS community has matured and is growing. There will be a phase of great gameplay where EVERYONE and their mom think its great, and that's generally the first releases of the game. Then it gets "lame" and "old" and that's where we are now. CS did the same thing. Now, we have to look ahead and realize that NS will definitely grow and become one heck of a mod. What they (the dev team, Flayra) have done with an over six year old engine is incredible.
I can only wish the best of luck to UWE, and be proud that I helped a) test and play the first game/mod it ever made and b) helped fund it with $20 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
gg NS <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What server do you play on. I randomly join servers and have yet to find a decent pub experience that made me to really want to play on that server again. I would love to play a game that has a decent comm or decent alien team.
thoses words describe NS perfectly at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or maybe the server you play on just SUCKS.
I'm sorry, but I've been playing NS since 1.04, and I play almost exclusively with intelligent people(even if they ARE pubbers). I always end up with VERY fun games, having a great time. In fact, the only time I don't is sometimes near endgame when my marines(me comm) decide to stop listening to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What server do you play on. I randomly join servers and have yet to find a decent pub experience that made me to really want to play on that server again. I would love to play a game that has a decent comm or decent alien team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My server is the Lunixmonster server.
www.lunixmonster.org
69.93.5.186:27015
Tonite you can't play, its regs only(being its the b5 rel and all)
<b>1.) Flayra is an <u>over-compensator</u>.</b>
If a recipe is a little bland you add a pinch of salt at a time, not a pound. Follow the change logs from v1, you'll see changes that swing drastically from one extreme to the other. Slight problems are fixed with massive changes before the root cause of the problem is discovered.
I wouldn't go to Flayras' dinner parties... a pound of salt too much add a pound of sugar. Not right yet? Another pound of salt and then another pound of sugar, pretty soon you don't even know what tasted like what and why you added everything to begin with.
<b>2.) Flayra has no <u>logical method</u>.</b>
You can't listen to everyones advice, but you can't listen to nobody either. By using a combination of methods (polls/feedback forums/playtesters/public playtests) to find a common concensus you can manage and organize feedback to maximize your ability to problem solve priority issues. Basic market research skills could help... a little basic logic would be good too.
Consulting with a few outspoken veterens one day (Good reflexes doesn't always equal good feedback), then forum/IRC regulars one day (Winners of a popularity contests doesn't equal good feedback) , then watching a few tournaments one day (A few tournament/public games do not represent the whole), and then getting your horoscope from CoCo the Psychic Monkey one day doesn't make for a logical way to balance something as complicated with as many factors as NS.
<i><b>And by far the worst flaw...</i></b>
<b>3.) <u>Flayra tries to do too much, too fast and ends up putting way too much on his plate, leaving everything half done all the while loading even more stuff on.</u></b>
Do I need to remark on this one. I've been here since 6 months before the mod was released and if I have to say one thing that characterizes the development of NS it is #3.
Look, this is not a flame, in fact much of this has been said time and time again from this thread to threads long past. To those who advice is to "Stop playing NS" I can tell you I have and a long time ago.
Why am I still here? Because I think, and always have thought, the basic concept behind NS is a great idea. Perhaps I'm just torturing myself by thinking maybe, just maybe, Flay wil get his act together and turn this idea into something fully realized and entertaining... but I'm quickly losing hope.
And this new project he's working on that is suppose to use NS as a springboard (how much momentum do you get from a busted springboard?)... I can say after witnessing the development of NS I would not go out and get it immediately... probably wouldn't even consider it for at least 6 months to a year.
Have I been harsh? No matter, I'm sure Flay is too busy mounding more stuff on his plate to notice this... or the trail of half executed ideas that follow him.
EDiT: I wanted to add one final little piece of advice: QUALITY OVER QUANTITY
Give the man some credit. He's brought some petty little game based off an EXTREMELY old engine up out of the ground. NS is ranked the 5th most played and popular mod via steam. The fact that he has made such an overthetop and incredible mod from NOTHING is a hell of an achievement.
I'm not flaming you, please do not get that impression. All I'm saying is that you have to give the man some credit... he's trying to make a game company to rival people like EA and Valve themselves. I've seen him on many a forum, posting and replying to people's gripes, complaints, and compliments. He's as active as any man can humanly be--who is building and managing an upcoming company.
<3 for Charlie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Combat has really taken away from ns too. Sure its fun and good for a quick blast but you get the hoards of co_ only players who think cloak is actually any use and drop 1 sens chamber half aminute into the game and then quit the server to go to a co_ server after ruining the game for the aliens.
NS 1.04 had a sense of magic. The current versions of NS do not.
oh btw: I still think NS is graphically and gameplay-wise the most impressive HL mod by far, just take one look at other mods and compare the Immersion and originality and how far half lifes been stretched, and credit is not only due to Flayra but also to the past and current developers who continuously ease more out of an archaic game engine.
Give the man some credit. He's brought some petty little game based off an EXTREMELY old engine up out of the ground. NS is ranked the 5th most played and popular mod via steam. The fact that he has made such an overthetop and incredible mod from NOTHING is a hell of an achievement.
I'm not flaming you, please do not get that impression. All I'm saying is that you have to give the man some credit... he's trying to make a game company to rival people like EA and Valve themselves. I've seen him on many a forum, posting and replying to people's gripes, complaints, and compliments. He's as active as any man can humanly be--who is building and managing an upcoming company.
<3 for Charlie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you aren't flaming me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My beef isn't what Flayra is trying to accomplish... my beef is <i><b>how</b></i> Flayra is trying to accomplish it.
Since as long as I can remember Flayra had the intention of eventually developing NS into a retail game. I always thought it was a great idea and supported it 100%. Since the gameplay concept was still highly experimental developing it on the HL engine (which is free) would be a <u><b>PROOF OF CONCEPT</b></u>.
Herein lies my beef.
Would you say that the PROOF OF CONCEPT has been realized?
Don't think I don't <3 Flay... maybe the proof of that is I never wasted his time by agreeing with everything he did but by presenting my observations as honest and forthright as possible.
Point well taken <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I see where you are coming from, and it would have been SO hot to walk into Babbages or GameStop and see "Natural-Selection" next to CS and HL boxes. Heck, people even went so far as to make purty looking retail boxes. But much like any game company, there will always be those DELAYS **cough valve cough** and changes. But to be honest, I believe Flay knows what he's doin'. I mean come on, anyone who saw that picture from CPL or whatever... he doesn't LOOK stupid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>2.) Flayra has no <u>logical method</u>.</b>
<b>3.) <u>Flayra tries to do too much, too fast and ends up putting way too much on his plate, leaving everything half done all the while loading even more stuff on.</u></b>
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Finally someone courageous enough to say out loud what many of us hated to think. This criticism of Flayra (and the dev team in general) was necessary , because it's obvious NS has lost its appeal to many of its long time fans : the playtesting method has to be changed. Obvious things such as huge bile bombs and vents too small to let a skulk through shouldn't be left in what wants to be a professional looking release. As said so many times before , the dev team needs to set its priorities straight...
I think the ns.org forums have the most motivated , NS-loving players of the NS gaming community , so there's no good reason to ignore their feedback and suggestions. So far , the majority wants to give Unchained Chambers a go in official NS releases. Yet nothing shows that the playtesters even tried it , and we're being told it won't be in because "Flayra thinks it's a bad idea".
Sensory chambers weren't a bad idea , yet they had little use until worthwhile changes were implemented in 2.0 ... see where I'm going ? Flayra isn't Einstein , so his opinion shouldn't outweight a competent brainstorming group's. (my atheist ideology , I actually said it <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Same with Natural Selection - when you start to see the sequence repeat itself, you know you've been around just about long enough. People move on or get trapped in routine.