Layout Question

the_bERtthe_bERt Join Date: 2004-06-21 Member: 29436Members
edited August 2004 in Mapping Forum
<div class="IPBDescription">give some advice plz</div> well im working on my first ns map and i thought about such a layout:
<img src='http://www.8ung.at/tolle-homepage/disonberg.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Rines start in doubleres, 1 rt must be welded to build for 1 min
What do you think about the placement of the 2 hives (big red dots) and rine access to choke points?
green lines indicate vents where rines must crawl
ps: yeah i like red dots on black ground <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2004
    Many have tried this weld to use resnode idea. The problem is even if you block it so the comm or a gorge even shouldn't be able to build on it, he can still build the rt. Also letting the marines start in a doubleres makes it really hard for the aliens to win as the rines can just turtle in their save ms

    The placement of the two left hives and only one corridor connecting them makes it even harder for the aliens since the rines can block of the only corridor between the hive with ease due to the close proximaty to the MS. An easy way to fix this is the use of a ventilation system, but i'd add at least one more corridor.

    The top left hive has only one entrance, this is normally a <i>no no</i> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    The other side of the map looks fine to me btw. Just keep the things I mentioned in mind about the suggested layout on the left.
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  • the_bERtthe_bERt Join Date: 2004-06-21 Member: 29436Members
    edited August 2004
    k thanks for your reply, ill keep that with the corridors in mind, it will anyway look completly different from those red boxes <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
    The rt works, i have tested it... My trick is to make a func breakable over the rt (the resnode is inside the breakable) and the weldable triggers the breakable.
    That way its impossible to build a rt no matter where you try to build it
    edit: you must set the health of the breakable to somewhat over 10000 so its no option to attack the breakable - making it trigger killable only doesnt work in ns afaik
    my idia was to balance the time to weld so, that the fact, the rines have one guy less in early game to get the 2nd rt equals the doubleres advantage.
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  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    The map looks interesting. I'm not sure how placing the hives on three corners of a map will work out. I'd guess that either one corner would be hardly played on, or that if it did have res nodes or some sort of advantage then the hive furthest away would be in a weaker position. Also if aliens started in either of the left-side Hives I know that as a commander I would pretty much have a Hive and half the map's res nodes. If you do want the marines to start in the middle of the map, it may be better to give yourself an equilateral triangle template, and have the hives roughly on each corner. This way it's easier to plan out the res and the interconnecting corridors beforehand. It is possible to make an even map the other way, you'd just have to make the 'shorter' corridors 'longer' by twisting them round ****loads!

    You have to remember not only to make it fairly even in terms of distance and structure from MarineStart to each Hive, but also between each Hive. By structure I mean that you need a balance between zones of alien advantage (lerk-ledges, high ceilings, onos-friendly corridors, connecting vents) and zones of marine advantage (long corridors, open spaces, JP navigable areas). In your picture it seems that the initial planning shows a route practically through MarineStart to get from the bottom-left Hive to the top-right Hive.

    Just as a sidenote plan the hives well so as not to imbalance them. No-one wants to start in the Hive-of-Doom <i>my eg</i> (and you may not agree) Biodome in ns_origin because of the ease that marines can rush the nearest res node and its proximity to the res node they may well go for. Another example: Pressure Control in ns_ayumi (damn I hate how the res node isn't in the Hive proper [Pressure Control], but what I HATE even more is that it only has <b>one</b> Onos friendly exit and two vents exits! Yet another example: AE35 and Pressure Control in ns_ayumi as they both can be shot from <i>extreme</i> distance by marines. In short the way I prefer Hives is to have entrances that don't look straight onto a Hive, and to have 2 Onos-friendly exits. (NB you can disadvantage Onoses elsewhere in the map by making large areas and smaller non-negotiable corridors, forcing them to take another route.

    However, having gone on about keeping it even, I thoroughly enjoy a challenge (especially ns_ayumi) so ultimately it is up to you how disadvantaged a Hive is, or whether Marines can lock-down half the map. If you like it, keep it, but there are limits as to how much of a disadvantage the average Frontiersman or Alien will tolerate.

    I hope I'm not disheartening you by writing this, it's just that the planning stage is where you can make the rest of the mapping a lot easier by ironing out problems before they arise.

    I also suggest you check out these two links as they will give you a lot to think about.

    <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html' target='_blank'>NS Official Mapping Guidelines</a>

    <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/MappingGuide.php' target='_blank'>ChromeAngel's Quick Start Guide to Mapping</a>

    Hope I've been of help!

    ns_tbc@20%
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  • the_bERtthe_bERt Join Date: 2004-06-21 Member: 29436Members
    hmmm i agree with you about the hive placement, i think i could change the existing part of the map that way to place the hive there (i updated the pic)
    I left that rooms away, the lines should just describe the connection of the areas
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I just remembered the sticky at the top <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70657' target='_blank'>Mapping & Competitive Play, Methodology</a>

    Its a good read on layouts for ns and the do's and dont's...
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