Listen Up, Marines.
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Please note that this is for pubs. *
When that second hive gets up and you've failed your siege attempt and you know that you're going to lose.....you can still win.
For most games, if the aliens successfully gets the second hive up with a couple of RTs...you're probably going to end up losing.
<i>Relocate to the third and final hive.</i>
Okay, some hive spots might not be the most ideal place for a relocation, but say you're playing ns_nothing, and the aliens started in Via and took Powersilo....Cargo hive is a great place to relocate to. It's easy to defend, and lerks will have a hard time trying to spore your marines without risk.
Because if there's one thing we know....ninja PGs=teh win for marines. While the third hive=teh lose for us.
<i>You have to deny the third and final hive.</i>
If you can get the third hive heavily entrenched, you can always hope that you'll be able to push out, ninja one of their two hives...and they're back to square one. One hive onos are useless. One hive fades have an extremely tough time with even 3/3 LA LMG marines. Skulks are just....dead. Lerks can be an annoyance, but not so much.
Now, some of you might say that they'll just onos and kill us all with stomp spam....
You have to make 1 or 2 more command consoles near your armory. Marines just jump on the armory, and then proceed to be on top of the CC, this will make you immune to stomp (unless you're on a slope or something in the Onos' favor).
Try and ninja a hive. Save slowly for JP and HA, JPs will ninja, HA will provide the mainstay of your force.
But, whatever you do, always remember:
<i>Deny the third and final hive.</i>
When that second hive gets up and you've failed your siege attempt and you know that you're going to lose.....you can still win.
For most games, if the aliens successfully gets the second hive up with a couple of RTs...you're probably going to end up losing.
<i>Relocate to the third and final hive.</i>
Okay, some hive spots might not be the most ideal place for a relocation, but say you're playing ns_nothing, and the aliens started in Via and took Powersilo....Cargo hive is a great place to relocate to. It's easy to defend, and lerks will have a hard time trying to spore your marines without risk.
Because if there's one thing we know....ninja PGs=teh win for marines. While the third hive=teh lose for us.
<i>You have to deny the third and final hive.</i>
If you can get the third hive heavily entrenched, you can always hope that you'll be able to push out, ninja one of their two hives...and they're back to square one. One hive onos are useless. One hive fades have an extremely tough time with even 3/3 LA LMG marines. Skulks are just....dead. Lerks can be an annoyance, but not so much.
Now, some of you might say that they'll just onos and kill us all with stomp spam....
You have to make 1 or 2 more command consoles near your armory. Marines just jump on the armory, and then proceed to be on top of the CC, this will make you immune to stomp (unless you're on a slope or something in the Onos' favor).
Try and ninja a hive. Save slowly for JP and HA, JPs will ninja, HA will provide the mainstay of your force.
But, whatever you do, always remember:
<i>Deny the third and final hive.</i>
Comments
Umbra, bilebomb, leap, blink, resource domination. Considering that the marines couldn't hold out an attack on the second hive, chances are they won't hold the third hive. It is a last ditch attempt that almost always fails.
If they start in PS youve won trust me, just rush phase tech, rush via, take it, 2 hive lockdown, upgrade rush gg. It quite easy to hold via from PS aswell.
If they start in via its a little more difficult, you need a few half decent ninjas to go the long way to PS (via MS) capping all the res along the way. If they manage PS hive up, its reasonably easy to siege it from forboding side.
Actually come to think of it that map it pretty damn easy for marines, as long as they dont start in cargo, if they do go straight for via, the biggest mistake any commander does in to try and lockdown PS first. PS has no strategic value to either team on that map. It funny, because cargo hive back in 1.04 was like the place to relocate every game, and tbh nothing much has changed, it has one less res nozzle but is strategically important.
Ever tried the relocate to pressure hive on ayumi? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would get banned for doing that on my regular, reminds me of back in 1.04 when you could do it outside hera <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
omg we lost all our rt WTH??
Do yourself a favour.. accept that you've lost, end it, and play the next round a little wise.
By the way... lets not forget that in any 2 hive lockdown strat there will ALWAYS be a battle for hive 3, so its not like it never happens... and how many times have marines won in those sorts of situations versus aliens capable of breaking a 2 hive lock??
Anyhow, if you're locking hive 3, if you intend to WIN as opposed to drag the game out then you NEED to go for a ninja phase rush. You will not HA train out, you will not JP out, you will not siege out of that hive because OCs will be everywhere and the aliens will be packing the higher upgrades. If it becomes a turtle match then have the good grace to accept the loss rather than drag it out with the delusion of a possible win.
It's because you still have the possibility of ninjaing one of their hives, and one hive lifeforms are useless against fully teched marines.
The third hive spells out defeat, almost always.
Nobody ever said anything about two hive lockdowns. I said if they have two hives and you're hard pressed to get territory afterwards. TAKE THE THIRD AND FINAL HIVE.
Learn to read, Necrosis.
But hey, I'm not putting it down or anything. Its true, your best chance on a pub upon a failed second-hive seige is to relocate to the third hive. Its harder to break your turtle when they only have 2-hive abilities. But c'mon. You're thinking of teching up on one res node. Thats going to turn out to be a seriously long and tiring game that is definitely not worth it; win or, more likely, lose.
We took down one hive...set up a few more nodes, then went in for the kill.
If you're relocating to third hive because aliens have 2 hives on a pub server then the chances are its because they're just broken an attempt at a 2 hive lockdown.
Now, if the alien players have the wit to break a 2 hive lock with 1 hive then they're going to steamroll the third hive easily. Its only a matter of time.
Smacktards can drag this out by laming up the third hive with a bucketload of turrets and IPs and sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly saving res for some sort of push. Which generally doesn't work because most aliens are watching for PGs.
Essentially the marines turn a 10 minute game into an upwards of 30 minute game purely because they've spent altogether far too much res on laming up a hive. They've little to no chance of winning, but the delusion keeps them going on and on and on and on. A problem sure to get worse when turrets finally get access to weapon upgrades.
What usually happens, and I speak from experience because I've seen this sort of thing done, is that most of the alien team will QUIT the server, resulting either in unbalanced teams, stack win, or the new alien players coming in with NO res and being unable to counter a tfarm with bare basic skulks. The problem gets exponentially greater on bigger servers where res comes in at a crawl.
Personally I find any tactic that relies on the enemy getting bored and leaving to be pretty sad and depressing waste of a game. Its the sort of stuff server admins and regular players don't like to see, and it won't make you popular with the players who have to sit an extra 30 mins doing repetitive things purely because you don't have the sportsmanship to accept you've lost.
As boring as it sounds...it was actually a very fun game. I was out on the feild and it was even fun...go figure. I guess it was because we knew we had a chance to win, and hey, if the aliens don't do something about it, the marines will.
The aliens could have ended it dozens of times...I blame them for not ending it. Everyone on their team was either <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->, <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo-->, or <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
PS: I think the actual game time was somewhere into an hour.
but i neither approve people who say "2 hives gg we lost, nextmap". thats not true. you can still win, but it's hard. and a hive-reloc is your best option. i cannot see why a marine comeback against 2 hives and res superiority could make a comm's reputation worse.
an example here: 10 vs 10 pub game, ns_tanith, marines have 2 bases: ms and satcomm hive. both are nearly impossible to take with anything less than a massive alien rush. ive seen dozens of games like that. too many. its not fun. it could be fun if alien teamwork existed on pubs. but it doesnt. and if i see a game like that i disconnect regardless of the team im on. because thats not what this game is supposed for.
you tell thats an epic game? one-hive lockdown/reloc with hahmg vs solo aliens is hardly epic.
btw rapier doesnt lock down. at least he didnt last time i saw him comming.
Do yourself a favour.. accept that you've lost, end it, and play the next round a little wise.
By the way... lets not forget that in any 2 hive lockdown strat there will ALWAYS be a battle for hive 3, so its not like it never happens... and how many times have marines won in those sorts of situations versus aliens capable of breaking a 2 hive lock??
Anyhow, if you're locking hive 3, if you intend to WIN as opposed to drag the game out then you NEED to go for a ninja phase rush. You will not HA train out, you will not JP out, you will not siege out of that hive because OCs will be everywhere and the aliens will be packing the higher upgrades. If it becomes a turtle match then have the good grace to accept the loss rather than drag it out with the delusion of a possible win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
erhm
That delusion can be reality...
Ive had it happen after "turtling" in a hive for 1+ hours finally coming back to win...
No we werent lame... relocated beginning off base rush, and aliens gorged us into satocmm (dropped a wall of 8 o chambers in chem transport or whatever, sat behind healspraying... we had no choice....
~Jason
thats what ya got to hope for... and you command and do your best to fight till the bitter end no matter what
I said a two hive lock degenerating to a one hive lock. What you had was an early game one hive relocate, not a two hive lockdown.