Do You Think Apm Is An Important Factor?
jammno
Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25832Members
Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25832Members
<div class="IPBDescription">An APM mini-guide for you.</div> APM = Actions Per Minute.
It's a term used by many RTS players to determine skill level (Usually a mix of base macro and unit micro.)
Do you think APM is an important factor when playing NS? I think it is.
Lets compare APM's of two marines.
Marine one is the basic marine. He shoots at the enemy and runs around like a normal person. Occasionally he'll jump about to evade attacks. He's an OK marine in a comm's eye. He holds the attack key down and tries to keep the cursor on the enemy.
Marine two is the advanced marine. He shoots at the enemy and strafe runs. (It's where you press your strafe keys as you run forward for more speed. Don't believe me? Try it. Spam left and right strafe as you run forward and watch as you pass up other marines that are running the same direction.) When he goes downhill, he jump/crouches/strafes to increase speed then lets off of crouch before he lands to make it silent. He is constantly evading attacks and ab(using) knockback whenever he can. Instead of holding the attack key, he clicks it when he needs it for more accurate shots. He can empty a pistol clip much faster than the normal marine because he has higher APM. He's a hero marine in the comm's eye and always gets the first shotty. He kills himself before an alien life form gets the killing blow so they don't get the resources. He tosses his gun/welder/etc before death to ally players if they're fully loaded.
Clearly the marine with the higher APM is better. Now lets look at APM differences with the aliens.
Skulk one is a basic skulk. He will run at the enemy, strafe to dodge bullets. Jump at the marine and bite until death. He may ambush at times. He's an average skulk. He holds down the attack key and hopes his attacks hit.
Skulk two is an advanced skulk. He will bunny hop constantly around the map and has enough speed built up at all times to devastate a lone marine. He doesn't hold the attack key, instead he spams the attack key when he knows he can get a hit in. If he can't survive the marines due to med spam or underestimation of the marines weapons/armor, he parasites as many as he can then kills himself so the marines don't get resources. If hive three he xenosides. He is a master at leap biting and making sure they don't get the kill.
Lets do one with a fade.
Fade one is a sub-par fade. He will blink in, then swipe and follow a marine until it dies. He then blinks away and heals up before repeating. He jumps sometimes when he blinks to speed up a little, but it's rare.
Fade two is an advanced fade. He will crouch/jump/blink in and swipe, then, crouch/jump/blink away and metabolize as he's doing it. He repeats this until the marine squad is dead. He doesn't crouch/jump/blink/metabolize the same every time. Sometimes he will boomerang in, other times he'll overhead swipe then swipe as they turn around. He always jumps to increase speed when traveling around the map. Blink bunny hopping I guess it's called.
Lets compare commanders:
Commander one is a silent one. He rarely talks or types to his marines. He gives waypoints and plays like a sub-par comm. He techs and researches normally, but he fails to aid his marines with med spams and ammo. He sieges hives, makes turret factories, all that stuff.
Commander two is a talkative one. He is always talking or typing to his marines. He gives waypoints constantly(Pubs) and plays like a veteran RTS player. He pays attention to what's going on and techs and researches based on the enemy teams actions. He is always with his marines giving them meds when it's a good time to do so. He gives ammo to those who are low when it's needed(Not wanted.). He hotkeys his marines _AND_ his research buildings / observatory and is constantly spending resources. He sieges hives, but does a little extra, like scans for incoming enemies and drops an armory and mines. He has very good building placement and is always in control of his marines. He informs the marines what is going on and is always doing somthing and not sitting idle.
Clearly marine two, skulk two, fade two, and commander two have higher Actions Per Minute (APM). And they are clearly better than the others with lower APM. Remember, this isn't Counter-Strike where APM would kill your aim.
If you want, I can give you RTS examples of high APM. A few FPS's rely on high APM too. Like UT and Quake games.
Increasing your APM is the way to become a better player. I know it may tire your hands, but if you want to be a good player, you'll need to do more things. Always try to be doing somthing. Don't sit idle. But at the same time don't get yourself killed.
Here are some generic ways to increase your APM or help you increase it:
1) Before a game starts, make sure hud_fastswitch 1 is active. And as marines, spam your 1, 2, 3 keys. Try to switch your weapons as fast as possible. This is called pumping up before the game starts. It's the equivilant of spamming rally points on buildings on RTS games. (Like Warcraft III)
2) As marines, as soon as the game starts, run to your destination while spamming left and right strafe. If you're going down hill, do a crouch jump while strafing left and right. Let go of crouch before you land for a stealth landing. As aliens, get a good bunny hop going. If you can't bunny hop, then practice t_t. As a commander, start talking immediately. Tell your marines what you plan to do, how you're going to do it, and order them what you want done.
3) Always try to use all your weapons/skills in every encounter you get in. Always parasite/leap when you can while making sure to attack the enemy. Always use your pistol/grenade/mines as well as your main weapon. The knife is a viable weapon to use also. Learn to time knife attacks with the enemy. Don't hold down the attack key and hope you score a hit. Always jump when it's needed.
4) In NS(Or CO if you're a GL) make sure to deprive the enemy of resources if you have no hope of killing a few before you die. Bind a key to kill yourself and give yourself at least three seconds to die. Or jump into lava/a pit. Spam nades around you if it's all over in CO to kill yourself and possibly any enemies around you. This is equivilant to Warcraft III in that you kill your near death units to deprive the enemy hero of experience.
5) As a commander, always talk to your marines. Spend resources, scan places. Open/close doors. Move elevators. Build structures. Try not to sit idle. Always look and listen around the map.
6) As a lerk, always use your adrenaline to spore enemies or umbra allies. Primal scream when you can to give allies a boost in attack speed. Try to keep your adrenaline bar as low as possible to keep your actions as high as possible. This is the equivilant of using your Warcraft III heroes mana up as much as you can in battle.
7) The walk key is an action. Use it when you know you can sneak up on a skulk/marines building an RT/other situations. Just because you're moving slow doesn't mean that you're doing bad.
Keep those APM's up and make sure you're always doing somthing. If you follow this "philosohpy" of high APM = Good player then you'll be plowing through opposition in no time.
On a side note: (If this topic becomes popular.) Anyone have a high FPS non-laggy phase gate model? Or a fix for flashlight = massive FPS drop? PM me please.
It's a term used by many RTS players to determine skill level (Usually a mix of base macro and unit micro.)
Do you think APM is an important factor when playing NS? I think it is.
Lets compare APM's of two marines.
Marine one is the basic marine. He shoots at the enemy and runs around like a normal person. Occasionally he'll jump about to evade attacks. He's an OK marine in a comm's eye. He holds the attack key down and tries to keep the cursor on the enemy.
Marine two is the advanced marine. He shoots at the enemy and strafe runs. (It's where you press your strafe keys as you run forward for more speed. Don't believe me? Try it. Spam left and right strafe as you run forward and watch as you pass up other marines that are running the same direction.) When he goes downhill, he jump/crouches/strafes to increase speed then lets off of crouch before he lands to make it silent. He is constantly evading attacks and ab(using) knockback whenever he can. Instead of holding the attack key, he clicks it when he needs it for more accurate shots. He can empty a pistol clip much faster than the normal marine because he has higher APM. He's a hero marine in the comm's eye and always gets the first shotty. He kills himself before an alien life form gets the killing blow so they don't get the resources. He tosses his gun/welder/etc before death to ally players if they're fully loaded.
Clearly the marine with the higher APM is better. Now lets look at APM differences with the aliens.
Skulk one is a basic skulk. He will run at the enemy, strafe to dodge bullets. Jump at the marine and bite until death. He may ambush at times. He's an average skulk. He holds down the attack key and hopes his attacks hit.
Skulk two is an advanced skulk. He will bunny hop constantly around the map and has enough speed built up at all times to devastate a lone marine. He doesn't hold the attack key, instead he spams the attack key when he knows he can get a hit in. If he can't survive the marines due to med spam or underestimation of the marines weapons/armor, he parasites as many as he can then kills himself so the marines don't get resources. If hive three he xenosides. He is a master at leap biting and making sure they don't get the kill.
Lets do one with a fade.
Fade one is a sub-par fade. He will blink in, then swipe and follow a marine until it dies. He then blinks away and heals up before repeating. He jumps sometimes when he blinks to speed up a little, but it's rare.
Fade two is an advanced fade. He will crouch/jump/blink in and swipe, then, crouch/jump/blink away and metabolize as he's doing it. He repeats this until the marine squad is dead. He doesn't crouch/jump/blink/metabolize the same every time. Sometimes he will boomerang in, other times he'll overhead swipe then swipe as they turn around. He always jumps to increase speed when traveling around the map. Blink bunny hopping I guess it's called.
Lets compare commanders:
Commander one is a silent one. He rarely talks or types to his marines. He gives waypoints and plays like a sub-par comm. He techs and researches normally, but he fails to aid his marines with med spams and ammo. He sieges hives, makes turret factories, all that stuff.
Commander two is a talkative one. He is always talking or typing to his marines. He gives waypoints constantly(Pubs) and plays like a veteran RTS player. He pays attention to what's going on and techs and researches based on the enemy teams actions. He is always with his marines giving them meds when it's a good time to do so. He gives ammo to those who are low when it's needed(Not wanted.). He hotkeys his marines _AND_ his research buildings / observatory and is constantly spending resources. He sieges hives, but does a little extra, like scans for incoming enemies and drops an armory and mines. He has very good building placement and is always in control of his marines. He informs the marines what is going on and is always doing somthing and not sitting idle.
Clearly marine two, skulk two, fade two, and commander two have higher Actions Per Minute (APM). And they are clearly better than the others with lower APM. Remember, this isn't Counter-Strike where APM would kill your aim.
If you want, I can give you RTS examples of high APM. A few FPS's rely on high APM too. Like UT and Quake games.
Increasing your APM is the way to become a better player. I know it may tire your hands, but if you want to be a good player, you'll need to do more things. Always try to be doing somthing. Don't sit idle. But at the same time don't get yourself killed.
Here are some generic ways to increase your APM or help you increase it:
1) Before a game starts, make sure hud_fastswitch 1 is active. And as marines, spam your 1, 2, 3 keys. Try to switch your weapons as fast as possible. This is called pumping up before the game starts. It's the equivilant of spamming rally points on buildings on RTS games. (Like Warcraft III)
2) As marines, as soon as the game starts, run to your destination while spamming left and right strafe. If you're going down hill, do a crouch jump while strafing left and right. Let go of crouch before you land for a stealth landing. As aliens, get a good bunny hop going. If you can't bunny hop, then practice t_t. As a commander, start talking immediately. Tell your marines what you plan to do, how you're going to do it, and order them what you want done.
3) Always try to use all your weapons/skills in every encounter you get in. Always parasite/leap when you can while making sure to attack the enemy. Always use your pistol/grenade/mines as well as your main weapon. The knife is a viable weapon to use also. Learn to time knife attacks with the enemy. Don't hold down the attack key and hope you score a hit. Always jump when it's needed.
4) In NS(Or CO if you're a GL) make sure to deprive the enemy of resources if you have no hope of killing a few before you die. Bind a key to kill yourself and give yourself at least three seconds to die. Or jump into lava/a pit. Spam nades around you if it's all over in CO to kill yourself and possibly any enemies around you. This is equivilant to Warcraft III in that you kill your near death units to deprive the enemy hero of experience.
5) As a commander, always talk to your marines. Spend resources, scan places. Open/close doors. Move elevators. Build structures. Try not to sit idle. Always look and listen around the map.
6) As a lerk, always use your adrenaline to spore enemies or umbra allies. Primal scream when you can to give allies a boost in attack speed. Try to keep your adrenaline bar as low as possible to keep your actions as high as possible. This is the equivilant of using your Warcraft III heroes mana up as much as you can in battle.
7) The walk key is an action. Use it when you know you can sneak up on a skulk/marines building an RT/other situations. Just because you're moving slow doesn't mean that you're doing bad.
Keep those APM's up and make sure you're always doing somthing. If you follow this "philosohpy" of high APM = Good player then you'll be plowing through opposition in no time.
On a side note: (If this topic becomes popular.) Anyone have a high FPS non-laggy phase gate model? Or a fix for flashlight = massive FPS drop? PM me please.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The better player is the one that wins. Clicking alot may, or may not, be a result of being good, dependant upon the game in question. These are all obvious statements, hardly worth a 4,000 word essay.
Sorry to say this, but that was just one big waste of time.
It was also a waste of 5 minutes of my life.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
All that about the Commander being constantly active has very little to do with APM, too. APM is more concerned with how quickly you can perform a series of actions that ideally should be performed at the same time, rather than simply how active you decide to be in a variety of situations, and what you remember to do. Of course, these things come into it, but not as much as you seem to imply, so again, be careful.
One fine example is Starcraft. Suffice to say that your average SC player has around say....70 APM. Whereas a professional SC player will have around....say, 200-400 APM?
Of course, in NS it's a different story. APM does not pertain to NS because marines are also players whom you cannot control directly, whereas in Starcraft and other RTS, they are willing to listen to all of your commands, from building that Hydralisk Den to running a zergling up into a Battlecruiser fleet.
So, APM does not really belong in NS, because it requires both the commanders and the marines to forcefully cooperate. Hence, APM cannot be measured in NS.
Comparing 2 players of equal skill and having 1 have a higher APM would be a better comparison.. however the only place I can see having a higher APM being overly beneficial (besides the comm of course) is when leap-biting/blink-swiping. Those types of actions would benefit from someone who can switch between blink and swipe and metabolize quickly.
Most of the things you attribute to APM are really attributable to skill..
-Zunni
Personally, I prefer to be the cagier type of Skulk who might not rack up as many outright kills, but plays just as vital a part of the game.. taking out the most important targets, or flanking with Silence and killing off the stragglers from a group to weaken their numbers from any final push point to which they may be headed.
Which is better... a Skulk who dives in with leap/bite and kills two marines out of six before being forced to /kill (an action with a delay on most servers to prevent such a dishonorable action), or being shot down... or a Skulk perched behind, radioing to the waiting ambush ahead 'six marines, south waste management hall, two HMG center and front, one GL back'... then scooting up Silenced as the trap is sprung to quickly take out the GL-spammer.
APM only holds sway when no overall strategy is involved.
I'm not going to PM you about this, more people might be interested in the answer.
It's a bit off-topic so <b>don't answer this post please</b>.
If you use a Nvidia card I recommend you to try old drivers, i've noticed that if you use the latest ones you will have huge fps drops in base and mainly because of the phasegate (which is flashing strangley).
New drivers are good for new games (such as Doom 3, Farcry etc) but doesn't work well with the good ol' hl-engine, so you have to choose if you want good fps in newer games or in HL.
It was obvious for me that I wanted better FPS in HL (since im only playing half-life modifications: Natural Selection, Science & Industry).
I have a GeForce4 Ti 4200 on a p4 2.4GHz with 512MB DDR Ram, and I get 100 fps everywhere except in base (~80-90 fps) on 1024x768.
I'm using the 52.16 drivers which can be found <a href='http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k__52.16.html' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Good luck with your FPS.
THAT is an exploit. Don't do it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The better player is the one that wins. Clicking alot may, or may not, be a result of being good, dependant upon the game in question. These are all obvious statements, hardly worth a 4,000 word essay. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The higher APM player is more likely to win because he is the one that is doing more things than the low APM player. Strategy is a major factor. But I'm just discussing APM. A higher APM player will more than likely always kill a lower APM player unless strategy is a major factor in the situation at hand. They're pretty obvious, but a lot of players have low APM's. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree, that was alot of wasted time typing all that out. What exacly are you trying to prove, press more keys and you become a 1337 hax0r?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More actions = More kills = More wins? I guess. It's not a waste of time because I type pretty fast -_-;; (I've been called a hax0r before because I was running faster than another marine. See marine strafe-running..)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry to say this, but that was just one big waste of time.
It was also a waste of 5 minutes of my life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry :-/. But seriously, the more actions you do, the better you are. I mean I rarely see pubs strafe-run as marines. That is a "big time" advantage when rushing to that RT being chomped or rushing to wherever you want to go. I think every player should try to increase his/her APM's as much as they can but still have a strategy train of thought.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A lot of the skilful qualities exhibited by the Type 2 specimens are the result of general game knowledge more than APM.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but when you do learn this, you should do it, at all times. Don't be a lazy gamer because it's too many keys to press at once. It's a major benifit that you should always emplore. Only in scrims do I see marines strafe walk. Or that gosu 20/0 marine who's always in the front lines. (Which is rare in pubs.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All that about the Commander being constantly active has very little to do with APM, too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The comm being active, as in just talking is commiting an action. Sure if there was some sort of APM calculator it wouldn't pick it up as an action, but we're not talking about an APM calculator. I consider it an action. It's rare that comm's are always active with their marines. Since they are talking, which is an action, I consider it an action.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->APM is more concerned with how quickly you can perform a series of actions that ideally should be performed at the same time, rather than simply how active you decide to be in a variety of situations, and what you remember to do. Of course, these things come into it, but not as much as you seem to imply, so again, be careful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
APM is also how active you are throught the entire game. If you are constantly active, then when a tight situation arrives you will still be that active, if not more. Than if you were just sitting around, then tried to become "mega active". It doesn't work as well as if you were constantly active.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course, in NS it's a different story. APM does not pertain to NS because marines are also players whom you cannot control directly<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but if you are a really active, talkative comm. You will get your marines to do what you want them too. It's hard work to get pubs to follow your orders, but it can be done. There are plenty of guides around on how to bend your marines to your will. It just takes a microphone <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->from building that Hydralisk Den to running a zergling up into a Battlecruiser fleet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sort of like if you are respected enough as a comm, you can get that marine to build that phase reguardless of how many skulks are coming, or to get that marine to chase down that wounded fade/onos reguardless if he's going to die soon after he kills the fade/onos from the OC's or other hazards.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, APM does not really belong in NS, because it requires both the commanders and the marines to forcefully cooperate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's more so for your individual skills so you'll survive or at least kill more. Or at least be a better "unit" for your team. Gosu marines + okay commander = Dead aliens. Or Okay gosu commander + okay marines = Dead aliens. This is speaking if the teams are balanced mainly and the marines have higher APM than the aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hence, APM cannot be measured in NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It can't be measured, but it's a good idea to keep your APM's high to at least be above average.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With a skulk, camping is also a hardcore factor of skulking, and you don't exacly rack up a whole lot of APM doing that now do you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to keep yourself bumped. Check the scores menu or occasionally check the map. But don't do it enough where it can be fatal to you. When you ambush, put that APM into action. Don't just bite at the marines. Bite them, jump, leap, parasite, xenoside. Make sure you don't die, or if you can't make it out alive to kill yourself so they don't get res. This puts your team at more of an advantage.
On average I see skulks ambush then run at the other marine (Or marines) and bite. I hardly ever see the skulk leap at the next marine after they kill the first one or leap in a strategic way because they are too lazy to change to leap. Their mind is more focused about killing that marine, so they just run/jump at it and bite. Rather than leap and close the distance instantly. If your APM is high and pumped ready to go, you're more likely to leap/parasite/bite the marines than just run and bite them while they shoot you.
I even have team members ask me "why did u kill urself?". I tell them that if I was doomed anyway and that if I didn't they'd have an extra 2-3 resources.
High APM = You're more deadly and more supportive (Parasited three marines, killed two, and made sure they didn't get any resources from your death is a lot better than killing one and getting shot down before you could kill another or at least parasite them.)
Most often you'll see pros ambush. But you'll also see them constantly use leap/parasite/other skills. High APM = You're being "all you can be."
Try it. Boost your APM and watch your gaming prefomance soar. Also make sure to work on strategy, but that is for another day.
When I'm dead, I still keep APM rather high by switching observers and watching the score menu. If you've ever watched one of my demo's you'll see the score screen flicker on and off as I'm dead. >_>
Edit: More replies as I typed this. I shall not double post.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> was just about to bring that up... sometimes the best Skulk knows when not to attack, rather to parasite, or simply track the Marines and report locations so as not to alert a 'rine to his/her presence by the 'parasite detected' icon.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are actions. They may not be offensive, but it's a whole lot better than the skulk who just does nothing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which is better... a Skulk who dives in with leap/bite and kills two marines out of six before being forced to /kill (an action with a delay on most servers to prevent such a dishonorable action), or being shot down... or a Skulk perched behind, radioing to the waiting ambush ahead 'six marines, south waste management hall, two HMG center and front, one GL back'... then scooting up Silenced as the trap is sprung to quickly take out the GL-spammer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My examples were mainly offensive examples. Here's a non offensive example:
Skulk one says "omg hvy train headed 4 hive!!!"
Skulk two says "Heavy train at *location* headed for *location*. There are *this types of marines* and *this types of marines.* Get ready to ambush at *location* (Then add other actions that skulk one wouldn't do.)
Notice how skulk two has higher APM. As he's doing more things than skulk one, and therefore is a better skulk.
Zakio's post: It's not a graphics card problem, as the FPS drops didn't happen a few patches ago. It seems to have spread throught all Half Life games. So it could be somthing universal causing the fps problems. A lot of people have this problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comparing 2 players of equal skill and having 1 have a higher APM would be a better comparison..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were of equal skill, it's just marine/skulk/etc one was just too slow on the keyboard to do the other stuff, because they have very low APM / lazy playing style.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most of the things you attribute to APM are really attributable to skill..
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Skill is tied to APM. It takes high APM to switch through weapons / skills. (Like leap biting. Takes fast actions on the keyboard to do constantly.) Same with Bhopping.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->THAT is an exploit. Don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's not. It's totally legit. It's not a bug, glitch, or unfair advantage. It's a technique. I don't see developers telling how it will be changed. Sure it's dishonorable, but it's a valid strategy. Cheap? Yes. But effective. =P
Normally I respect your opinions, but that was out of line. Just because you are a priveledged member of the NS community (through your effort and work) does not mean you dictate what is right and not right in-game. Saying, "NO, its an exploit!" is an opinion. It is most certainly not a fact.
Perhaps I missed the update where Flayra defined it as such, but to my knowledge it is up to a server operator to determine whether it is an exploit or not. If they deem it as such they can change the kill wait time to 30 seconds. Making a broad generalization like that is just wrong.
Its like when I used to hop onto a server and have vets screaming about how great they were because they had a symbol next to there name. It means they are distinguished, but it does not mean their opinion or intelligence is worth more than anyone elses. This is a similar situation.
Indeed. APM just doesn't really cut it, since hiding in a spot doesn't really mean action.
But yes, DPM. Now that will be the cutting edge factor on your quality of comms. You can't have a good comm if they have a good APM but bad DPM, but that's rare.
Also directly affects how well your players are doing. Let's take the example of skulks, who will seemingly have excessively low APM, but a really high DPM.
Sees marine walk in. Tries to determine situation in one of the few ways by predicting what choice of action said marine will take, or other marines for that matter
- Just stand there, probably idling
- Standing by to build buildings
- Waiting for backup squad of marines to come in and help cover location
- Bait
And probably a few dozen more. Most likely ranging from determining health/armor, weapons, armor and weapon upgrades, and so on so forth.
Unfortunately, DPM is really hard to determine, because we can't simply plug our brains into our motherboards can we?
THAT is an exploit. Don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happens if you um.. *cough* "accidently" jump into lava/ off a high ledge/ under a crushing elevator just before a skulk is gonna kill you?
THAT is an exploit. Don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happens if you um.. *cough* "accidently" jump into lava/ off a high ledge/ under a crushing elevator just before a skulk is gonna kill you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've gotta love jumping into that sewage under MS on co_daimos, only to find the skulk followed you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Normally I respect your opinions, but that was out of line. Just because you are a priveledged member of the NS community (through your effort and work) does not mean you dictate what is right and not right in-game. Saying, "NO, its an exploit!" is an opinion. It is most certainly not a fact. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, and now you are hearing this from a dev, it <i>is</i> an exploit. The kill command has been reworked a number of times to make digest-suicide impossible, this goes along the same lines. Yes, it's a relatively tame one, but it's one of the factors that led to the general condemnation of console commands in the FAQ.
Typing commanders get a -1 speed to their stats, because instead of holding down a button, they are effectively immobilized while spreading info.
Many players in warcraft 3 discuss this often. While APM usually is very high for pr0 players, many newer players will think "HEY I SHOULD CLICK EVERYWHERE!" So they do it and just lose. APM while useful does not show everything, I could just click one think the whole game for uber apm.
Sure APM doesn't = win but it does = more deadly/more speed.
APM is a way some RTS'ers measure skill. So it's sort of like the same thing, but it isn't.
I rarely ever use the kill self method. To me, parasiting that last marine is worth the 2-3 res I'll be "giving" them.
Manny APM or DPM are useless if they are wrong.
btw: JacKnife, your sig is like fullscreen <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Many players in warcraft 3 discuss this often. While APM usually is very high for pr0 players, many newer players will think "HEY I SHOULD CLICK EVERYWHERE!" So they do it and just lose. APM while useful does not show everything, I could just click one think the whole game for uber apm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can't get faster if you don't try to get faster. clicking everywhere is going to make you lose at first, but as your clicks get more accurate and you're more able to make decisions despite your persistent clicking, not only will you be able to make faster decisions, but your micro gets better as well. </0.02$>
Fade one is a sub-par fade. He will blink in, then swipe and follow a marine until it dies. He then blinks away and heals up before repeating. He jumps sometimes when he blinks to speed up a little, but it's rare.
Fade two is an advanced fade. He will crouch/jump/blink in and swipe, then, crouch/jump/blink away and metabolize as he's doing it. He repeats this until the marine squad is dead. He doesn't crouch/jump/blink/metabolize the same every time. Sometimes he will boomerang in, other times he'll overhead swipe then swipe as they turn around. He always jumps to increase speed when traveling around the map. Blink bunny hopping I guess it's called. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, I see such a huge difference here, you clearly changed my mind about APM.
There's so much difference between a good fade and a bad fade, and APM is not a way to measure it. I would know, I follow the second method to the letter, and I'm still outfaded by <i>more experienced players</i> to an excess. Granted the experience doesn't have to do with actual play time as I've been playing since.. the beginning.. but time being fade. I almost never evolved to fade until the most recent release.
AKA, EXPLOITER!!!11oneoneone
Actions per minute won't mean much when your a marine, but it might mean something when your a commander.
And the stuff your talking about, it isn't APM, it's skill. A skilled fade will pancake, and a noob fade won't. Nothing to do with APM.