Guide To Mine Placement
SpaceJesus
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">Mine placement (buildings)</div> Recently I've seen a lot of people asking about how mines should be placed around the IP's etc.
The first thing you have to realise about mines is that they are not there to defend the base, that's the marine's job. Mines are there to protect spawning marines and give them a half decent chance of killing a skulk in the base on their own.
With no mines, a skulk will be thinking 100% about where the marine is, where he's looking and how to kill him.
With a relatively well placed mine pack, the skulk is thinking about where the 4 mines are, how not to hit them, and has 5 things to worry about killing him instead of 1.
That is the reason mines are there, so that base rushers will mess up and land on a mine when a marine is shooting at them. They are definitively NOT there to defend the base on their own.
Here is an example of how to place mines on an IP.
<img src='http://img15.exs.cx/img15/5780/IP1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Notice that the mines are not placed on the IP itself, but are placed in close proximity to it, this is so that the skulk less room around the IP which isn't close to a mine.
Now I'll give some examples of other useful places to put mines.
<u> Phase Gates </u>
<img src='http://img63.exs.cx/img63/3779/PG1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Any good com will prefer to mine a PG than TFac it, and its usually best to place the mines in the same way as the IP examples.
However, as the picture shows it is possible to hide most of the visible mine model inside the PG. It is quite possible to hide the entire mine inside the PG, I left it half out to show you where to place them.
<u> Resource Towers </u>
<img src='http://img63.exs.cx/img63/9492/RT1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img62.exs.cx/img62/7356/RT2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This is a little known trick, but you can place the mines so that they are hidden under the legs of the RT model. This makes them almost impossible to see if you are moving any faster than a walk. Place 2 mines in the back legs of any RT and I can guarantee that you will score at least a few kills.
<img src='http://img25.exs.cx/img25/5828/RT3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
You can also place a mine or 2 on the central nozzle part of the RT, which could be kind of problematic for any skulks hoping to much it.
<u> Aggressive Mine Placement </u>
Sometimes on a pub you'll find yourself with a few spare mines, or being told to place mines to harass the other team. These are a few pointers as to how to place mines aggressively.
<img src='http://img17.exs.cx/img17/8361/door1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Placing mines in front of doors like this means that any skulk running blindly into the room will hit the mine before they even see it.
Another good place to put mines is around blind corners so that skulks who don't strafe check around will simply run into the mine before they have time to react, again a few examples.
<img src='http://img17.exs.cx/img17/6861/blind2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img15.exs.cx/img15/8961/Blind1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>5 Top tips from Windelkron</b>
1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like
these, enemies will <b>not</b> be careful.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though)
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive...
right into this mine.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u> Mine Ladders </u>
Placed mines can be stood on, this allows you to place a diagonal row of mines like a set of stairs, which in turn allows you to reach vents etc which are normally unaccessible to the LA marine.
<img src='http://img56.exs.cx/img56/288/mineladder1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img56.exs.cx/img56/8726/mineladder2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img61.exs.cx/img61/6278/mineladder3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Well, that's my Mine Placement guide so far, comments and suggestions please and I'll try to update it to reflect what I missed/got wrong.
(sticky?)
Credits:
SpaceJesus (meh)
Windelkron (for some neat aggressive mining examples)
The first thing you have to realise about mines is that they are not there to defend the base, that's the marine's job. Mines are there to protect spawning marines and give them a half decent chance of killing a skulk in the base on their own.
With no mines, a skulk will be thinking 100% about where the marine is, where he's looking and how to kill him.
With a relatively well placed mine pack, the skulk is thinking about where the 4 mines are, how not to hit them, and has 5 things to worry about killing him instead of 1.
That is the reason mines are there, so that base rushers will mess up and land on a mine when a marine is shooting at them. They are definitively NOT there to defend the base on their own.
Here is an example of how to place mines on an IP.
<img src='http://img15.exs.cx/img15/5780/IP1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Notice that the mines are not placed on the IP itself, but are placed in close proximity to it, this is so that the skulk less room around the IP which isn't close to a mine.
Now I'll give some examples of other useful places to put mines.
<u> Phase Gates </u>
<img src='http://img63.exs.cx/img63/3779/PG1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Any good com will prefer to mine a PG than TFac it, and its usually best to place the mines in the same way as the IP examples.
However, as the picture shows it is possible to hide most of the visible mine model inside the PG. It is quite possible to hide the entire mine inside the PG, I left it half out to show you where to place them.
<u> Resource Towers </u>
<img src='http://img63.exs.cx/img63/9492/RT1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img62.exs.cx/img62/7356/RT2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This is a little known trick, but you can place the mines so that they are hidden under the legs of the RT model. This makes them almost impossible to see if you are moving any faster than a walk. Place 2 mines in the back legs of any RT and I can guarantee that you will score at least a few kills.
<img src='http://img25.exs.cx/img25/5828/RT3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
You can also place a mine or 2 on the central nozzle part of the RT, which could be kind of problematic for any skulks hoping to much it.
<u> Aggressive Mine Placement </u>
Sometimes on a pub you'll find yourself with a few spare mines, or being told to place mines to harass the other team. These are a few pointers as to how to place mines aggressively.
<img src='http://img17.exs.cx/img17/8361/door1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Placing mines in front of doors like this means that any skulk running blindly into the room will hit the mine before they even see it.
Another good place to put mines is around blind corners so that skulks who don't strafe check around will simply run into the mine before they have time to react, again a few examples.
<img src='http://img17.exs.cx/img17/6861/blind2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img15.exs.cx/img15/8961/Blind1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>5 Top tips from Windelkron</b>
1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like
these, enemies will <b>not</b> be careful.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though)
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive...
right into this mine.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/windelkron/ex3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u> Mine Ladders </u>
Placed mines can be stood on, this allows you to place a diagonal row of mines like a set of stairs, which in turn allows you to reach vents etc which are normally unaccessible to the LA marine.
<img src='http://img56.exs.cx/img56/288/mineladder1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img56.exs.cx/img56/8726/mineladder2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img61.exs.cx/img61/6278/mineladder3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Well, that's my Mine Placement guide so far, comments and suggestions please and I'll try to update it to reflect what I missed/got wrong.
(sticky?)
Credits:
SpaceJesus (meh)
Windelkron (for some neat aggressive mining examples)
Comments
Commanders should use mines more regularly, this will help nub marines on placing them,
and also dont forget u can place mines "in" the res nozzel and the are half hidden as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If they were simply planted on the IP itself the skulk would jump, bite the marine, the marine would move away from the IP, and the marine would then have next to no help to kill the skulk.
The point is to give the skulk more things to worry about killing him than just the marine. The idea is that the skulk tries to dodge the marines fire, and lands on a mine, which is extremely unlikely if the mines are only placed on the IP itself.
and to quote my original post:
"The first thing you have to realise about mines is that they are not there to defend the base, that's the marine's job."
any chance of a sticky?
Yeah your right, you american?
Yeah your right, you american? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is that supposed to mean?
You should show detailed pictures for newbies who don't know how to use mines as a ladder to reach vents / make floating forts for onos attacks.
Well, why lay them on the IP? The sure the skulk could stand on top of the IP, but when the 'rine spawns you're going to have a telefragged skulk..
When i looked at the pg picture, i didnt even see the mines first <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't know you can hide mines inside of structures. That's pretty neato.
Anyone think this is sticky-worthy?
but the first picture with the three mines around the ip...that's kind of strange. (I think if you place the mines closer it might work a little better?).
If the ip is far away from the com chair and lets say skulk comes to chew on it, the com can jump out of the chair causing the skulk to freak out or something and hit the mine.
O and the picture of the opening to teh hallway where the mine is on the right side...hmm...placing the mine in the center might fare better. Really dependent on what is coming around the corner. If its a skulk, he might hit the mine if its on the side. A fade might not since they usually blink either towards the center of the doorway or the ove the mine. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Onos will probably just hit everything..
Aside from that this is great advice about mines, I think every new player (and some old ones) would do well to learn about mines being the second line of defense.
Another useful fact regarding mines is that alien spawn point locations are written into the map so round to round in a given hive the spawn points are always in exactly the same spots. If you learn these spots you can put a mine there and a new skulk will explode before he even knows he is alive.
Frags, Res and Skulk! i mean dead skulk <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I agree that IP's need to be placed in a wide open area away from walls etc, but what I am trying to show is how to best employ mines once the commander has given them to you.
I know I'd much rather have an IP mined if I'm going to be spawning there with a skulk or 2 trying to munch me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The location of that ip has no serious influence on how the skulks will need/want to approach it so it can't really be efficiently defended.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be missing the point sir. The entire point of mine placement in this manner is NOT to defend the IP. Guarding buildings is the marine's job. Guarding marines however, is the mine's job.
Although C&C is always appreciated, I'll try to get that mine ladder section up a bit later.
To mine an IP you should place them on or as close to the ip as possible. You can cover it with two or three and leave no spot for the skulk to munch, whereas that ip has four spots a skulk can munch on. I know you're going to say he can't dodge a marine because if he moves he will blow up, but in that case why place the mines any way? A skulk can't hide behind an ip.
That leads neatly to my next point, which is that you need to take into account the sight lines in a room. A single pack of mines and a single spawning marine should be able to instantly kill any single skulk in the room. The commander should be able to cover the ip. Place the ip where you will be aiming right at it when you hop out of the chair. Place the armory in the middle of the room. Place the upgrade structures against walls and within sight of the ip. Place mines against the back side of every building (backside respective to the spawning marine).
As far as mining rts, I like to place two mines on opposite sides of the rt directly on the nozzle model. If you place it far enough from the gas but still within the model you can hide the entire mine in the model and it will explode if a skulk tries to munch it.
Mines can be used to kill fades. It's pretty rare that mines will finish the fade but frequently they'll allow you to nail him in the back as he's fleeing. To do it, think about where on the map you <i>always</i> touch ground when blinking. In ns_eclipse, right inside the doors is great since you have to stop blinking while the doors open (usually I won't place these until after the fade is in the room, so they explode when he leaves). On ns_origin, I place mines on the vertical section of the stairs leading out of marine start. Also on origin I place mines right at the bottom of the small elevator in cargo.
I always shoot for a 3 kill average with a pack of four mines. I do count kill assists since hey thats fair right? Think like an alien and you'll get lots of mine kills.
Although I agree with some of your points.
No.
The first reaction of any marine (with skill) is to run/jump to try and dodge the attack.
This is the best fact I've read in a while.
Next time would you consider resizing the shots down to 800x600?
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--Scythe--
Also I'm gonna start work on a pub commander's guide to ns_veil sometime soon.
from then on marines just can't get up it!! or am i missing something here? (assuming it's a server where there's no friendly fire)
from then on marines just can't get up it!! or am i missing something here? (assuming it's a server where there's no friendly fire) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By mine ladder he doesn't mean that.
If you place a mine on a wall, you can then jump on it, then once you're on that mine you place another a little bit higher, simulating a ladder effect.
If you didn't understand that which i highly doubt you did, subscribe to this thread, and read his guide once he's wrote it. (Grammar?)
or "read his guide when it has been written"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Stamping down on the scum of the universe ....... bad grammar and the misuse of apostrophies.