Some Random Questions

Risiko · August 2004

Though I've been playing for quite a while now, I still have some basic questions that would fit into this forum. I almost always play marines so I have no questions there, but here are some basic ones about Kharaa and other stuff:

1) Can Gorges heal friendly units with Health Spray? It only seems to work on hives.

2) What, ultimately, is the main purpose of gorges? I know it's to make resource towers and other towers, but which is considered the priority? Should resource towers ALWAYS be focused on and the other towers only when I have excess resources? Or should other towers be focused on quite a bit too?

3) What are good places to put OT and other towers?

4) Which towers are the best to put down?

5) When is a good time to put the second hive up? ASAP? And do OT and other towers need to be put in place for defense of the hive(s)?

6) As for skulks, which are the best upgrades to get from each category? What's the general consensus on that?

7) As a marine soldier, if I happen to be without commands and no one seems to need backup, should I just go try finding empty resource areas/kill their resource towers? That's what I've been doing.

Thanks. Detailed responses are appreciated. If these answers are in a manual of some sort, I'd like to take a look at that too.

titanium · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1) Can Gorges heal friendly units with Health Spray? It only seems to work on hives.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

gorges can heal anything friendly, both structure and player. it takes a long time to heal larger units like fades/onos though. also, heal spray will hurt marines, but not very much.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>2) What, ultimately, is the main purpose of gorges? I know it's to make resource towers and other towers, but which is considered the priority? Should resource towers ALWAYS be focused on and the other towers only when I have excess resources? Or should other towers be focused on quite a bit too?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

press "C" by default to see your map. if your team has a lot of resource towers (4+) you should drop chambers. if your team has no upgrade chambers, start by dropping defense chambers. if your team already has some sort of chamber, make sure that there are at least three so that anyone getting an upgrade of that type can get the highest level (level 3).

if your team is low on resource towers (such as if you only have one or two), or there are open resource spots very close to your hive(s), then get resource towers.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>3) What are good places to put OT and other towers?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

offense chambers should be placed so that they cover the largest area possible. putting them in the corner of a room is a bad spot, because then marines can stay along the opposite wall and not get hit. spread offense chambers out so that they get in the way of marines as much as possible, and maximize how much they can see a marine in a room. for example, in a short hallway, put the offense chamber in the center. a marine running down the hallway will get shot as he enters the hallway, as he passes the oc, and as he's leaving.

defense chambers should be placed either in hives, in safe places (such as vents marines cannot get to without jetpacks), or near offense chambers to keep them healed.

movement chambers generally should go in hives so that if you spawn in one hive, you can take the movement to the other hive easily.

sensory chambers should be placed all over the map to form a sensory "network" which ensures you are cloaked no matter where you go.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>4) Which towers are the best to put down?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

in public servers (that is, in games which are not organized like clan play or pick up games) defense is generally the best upgrade to get first as it provides the most useful starting upgrades. while movement and sensory are both good chambers, they require far more coordination and teamwork to use effectively.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>5) When is a good time to put the second hive up? ASAP? And do OT and other towers need to be put in place for defense of the hive(s)?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

immediately. the sooner you get a second hive, the better (and to a lesser extent, the sooner the third hive, the better as well). chambers/towers do not <b>need</b> to be put in hive rooms, but it is a good idea if there are marines attempting to push in on the hive and take it out or take control of the room with a phase gate.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>6) As for skulks, which are the best upgrades to get from each category? What's the general consensus on that?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

it depends on your playing style really, but i suppose that in general,

defense: if you are fighting marines, carapace. if you are going around taking down resource towers, regeneration. redemption is not worth the resources for skulks, don't bother with it.

movement: silence is extremely good for taking down marines early in the game when they do not have armor upgrades, as you can generally get off 2 bites before they even notice they're being attacked. celerity is good later, as you move much quicker and can dodge easier. adrenaline is good if you have leap (as it allows you to leap much more frequently, making you harder to hit) or if you are concentrating on killing marine structures like resource towers.

sensory: if you are playing defensively and staying near sensory chambers (and therefore have cloaking from them), focus is a good upgrade to get, since you will already be cloaked and it will double the amount of damage each bite does. if you are playing offensively and are not near sensory chambers, cloaking is probably the best upgrade to get. you probably shouldn't bother with scent of fear as a skulk unless you are guarding a hive which is still building, or something similar.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>7) As a marine soldier, if I happen to be without commands and no one seems to need backup, should I just go try finding empty resource areas/kill their resource towers? That's what I've been doing.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

yes. the second most important thing in NS is resources, and the first most important is time. if you can take out alien resource towers while your team has them busy elsewhere, you are doing a <b>lot</b> for your team. and even if you don't actually destroy resource towers and are killed while knifing/shooting them, you made a skulk or two waste their time to come get you, getting them away from the rest of your team.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thanks. Detailed responses are appreciated. If these answers are in a manual of some sort, I'd like to take a look at that too.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

the manual is fairly outdated in many places and is not very reliable

Rue · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1) Can Gorges heal friendly units with Health Spray? It only seems to work on hives.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yep, they can heal hives/ towers / friendly units and can hurt marines

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>2) What, ultimately, is the main purpose of gorges? I know it's to make resource towers and other towers, but which is considered the priority? Should resource towers ALWAYS be focused on and the other towers only when I have excess resources? Or should other towers be focused on quite a bit too?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

They are there to build mainly, then i would say as suport class to heal aliens or towers. The main goal of a gorge changes during a match. At the start you want to get alot of resource towers(RT). This helps the gorge as well as the rest of the team. Once the team has got as many RT's as possible then the gorge should think about getting the upgrade towers and after that the hive.
Its not normal for one gorge to get more than one of the above, normaly one gorge saves for the upgrades and another for the hive. At the start of the game the people who gorge normaly go back to skulk.

Offence towers can come in handy in some maps and if the team has alot of res free then you will find it can be a huge advantage to get some OT's around the map. This leads onto your next question

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
3) What are good places to put OT and other towers?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

OT's are best placed in places where the marines cant just hide behind a corner and kill them, and they shouldnt be used in area where they can just be run past. There is a huge post in the beta descution forums that you can find <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75872' target='_blank'>here</a> that will tell you alot about what they are good for in the current versions of NS.

As for the other towers, Defence is normaly best either on top of the hive or in a vent the marines cant get to. Movement should be placed in each hive location or near where a lerk can spore a marine position. Sensory should be palced around the map. there is no point making them next to each other as they still provide the same area to cloak in.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>4) Which towers are the best to put down?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
This question has caused alot of flame wars in the past. basicly its up to you. There are plenty of threads that talk about this in the main forum , do a search from DMS (Defence , Movement , Sensory) and you will get alot of information.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>5) When is a good time to put the second hive up? ASAP? And do OT and other towers need to be put in place for defense of the hive(s)?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Yes getting the 2nd hive ASAP is the best idea, it gives the aliens the biggest leap(no pun intended) in useful upgrades. For example it allows fades to heal them selfs and skulks to use leap. If there is a movement tower in each of the hives them it reduces the need for OT's. However its up to the gorge how the wants to spend the res, if you feel more OT's make the hive safe the put them up.
Quick note on OT's dont make them in the hive, make them outside the hive area where the marines can siege from or if they get a siege up you OT's where a waste of res.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>6) As for skulks, which are the best upgrades to get from each category? What's the general consensus on that?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

My upgades of choice are , Regen , Silence and Sent of Fear. Its what NS is about sneaking about and being able to ambush and hunt loan marines.
Again i would sugest to try them all a few times and see what you like, if you go gorge alot get redemption.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>7) As a marine soldier, if I happen to be without commands and no one seems to need backup, should I just go try finding empty resource areas/kill their resource towers? That's what I've been doing.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Yes, if you dont have any orders you can do two things. One is what you said, use your own brain and kill there stuff or find RTs for the team. Two is ask for orders, if you have a mic use this because its the fastest way or bind a button to ask for orders. You can also use the ingame menu by right clicking and ask for an order that way. (Right click, the left to the orders menu then up)

Hope this helps, any other questions or if you want any more info on the above just ask.

Edit: Looks like titanium beat me to it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Apocalypsecow · August 2004

Hello, and welcome to the community! (The following applies to the NS game mode of Natural Selection):

1) Gorges can heal all structures and players on their team. This includes hives, players, and chambers (defense, movement, sensory and offense).

2) This part usually is a matter of preference. Usually It's a good idea for every gorge to build at least 1 resource tower and then concentrate on building at least one upgrade chamber. If there is more than one gorge on a team then you'll typically only have to build one while the other gorges build one as well and as long as you have three you'll be fine.

3) OTs (More commonly known as Offense chambers, or OCs) work well at choke points, that is to say where combat takes place often. An example of this would be a place where marines commonly set us shop to siege a hive or an area with double res nodes. Remember, the purpose of OCs are not to kill marines, but rather to slow down marine expansion, and provide an idea of where marines are heading. As soon as marines get better armor and weapons, the effectiveness of the damage they dole out and their life expectancy will dwindle, so it's its not a good idea to invest in and OC farm.

4) By towers I'm assuming you mean upgrade chambers. There are three types pf upgrade chambers, Defense, Movement and Sensory. For each hive that your team has built you may build one and <i>only</i> one type upgrade chamber, which will give each member of your team, a choice of three upgrades for that one chamber. For example, building a defense chamber will let you choose either: Regeneration; which allows you to gradually regain your health. Redemption; when low on health and near death, will transport you back to the hive farthest away from where you were attacked (this doesn't work very well anymore and isn't recommended). And finally Carapace, which will give you extra armor, which will reduce the damage you take over all.

It is very important that you consult with your team which chamber you build first. Generally the the build order for chambers most people agree with is: defense, then at the second hive movement, followed by sensory when the third hive is built. <i>Never</i> build sensory first unless your team okays it first.

5) Its a good idea to have three upgrade chambers built by the time the second hive built. If you have higher lifeforms, at hive one however, it is crucial that you have three upgrade chambers, for them before the 2nd hive is built.

6) Most people don't bother upgrading skulks, as they cost no res and are pretty easy to kill. If you must upgrade as a skulk I'd say the best upgrades would be: Carapace, Celerity which will make you faster and harder to hit, as well as Focus which will add a little oomph to your bites.

7) If you have no orders, or the comm doesn't give you orders after asking for some, it is a good idea to find empy resource nodes/areas and destroying alien resource towers. Destroying alien res nodes is <i>very effective</i> as it is much easier for marines to build and rebuild res nodes than it is for aliens, as aliens must first go gorge and get an additional 15 res. Slash and burn tactics like that are a great strategy.

Finally check out the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_version_2/Natural_Selection_Manual_Framed.html' target='_blank'>manual which unfortunately isn't completed yet.</a>

And that's it! Remember, no plan survives the first encounter with the enemy so learn to adapt your strategies and be flexible. Good luck!

Risiko · August 2004

Ok, thanks a lot guys.

One more thing: How do I check how many of, say, defense chambers my team has? Also, is there a quicker way to check how many Resource Chambers we have (other than counting from the map)?

mirrodin · August 2004

There are plugins that display numbers of chambers. For example when you drop a dc, and build it. It has the dc icon on the middle right like always, but now has a 1 beside it. Or a 2 or 3 or 22 ^_^

As for OCs and RTs I haven't seen a plugin that lets you see the number of those, but I'm sure it's possible. I'm no programmer though.

stingavandal · August 2004

1. count on the minimap

2. get an upgrade for that chamber. it will have 1 upgrade symbol if there is only 1 chamber. 2 upgrade symbols adjacent to each other if there are 2 chambers etc. (ex : regen has 1 plus sign for 1 chamber, 2 plus signs for 2 chambers, 3 for 3 chambers...the counter stops at 3)

3. some servers have a plugin that displays the number of each chamber on the right of the screen. it would be nice if this became part of the game and not a plugin.

X_Stickman · August 2004

I've always tried to place OCs so that marines can't shoot at them without getting shot at by the OC in question. If it's not possible, i try and make it so the two OCs cover each other's blind spots. Marines are generally wimps and don't like taking fire while they take down an OC (unless the comm is med spamming them which is good for you because the comm is distracted).

I usually stick them behind a box or something so the marine runs past and the OC gets one or two shots into the marines back before he even finds the OC, and then he has to stand directly in it's line of fire to shoot at it.

Another thing is to remember the range of OCs. It's all well and good plonking a line of 5 OCs in the middle of a corridoor, making it so marines can't get past, but if they can stand at one end of the corridoor and shoot them without the OCs shooting back, it's pointless.

Anyway, [/useless pointers] <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

AvengerX · August 2004

about the question on chambers.... listen whatever you do do NOT put down a sensory chamber as the first chamber, if your looking for something diffrent then DC go with movement why?

sensory is worthless for the most part, cloak is countered real quick once the marines get MT and becomes worthless, focus is ok as a lone abilitie but not that great, and SOF is a good skill, but not that usefull at very beggining of game. and when you get your second hive what are you going to drop MC? nope your going to need to get DCs, and then how do you get from one hive to the other? you have to walk, thas a major pain in the but when one hive is under attack.

why get MCs? with celerity its a lot easier to hunt down more marines faster without dying, and with more kills that means more r4k ( res for kills) and that means quick 2cd hive. and once you get the second hive you'll already have MCs to move from one hive to the other to increase hive deffense, its the only way to go.

so just remember that when you drop the first chamber

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