Some Concerns I've Noticed In Playing

ArcanuxArcanux Join Date: 2004-07-31 Member: 30270Members
edited July 2004 in NS General Discussion
I am rather new to NS but after playing it for only a short while, some initial concerns came to mind. First is the layout. I like the idea of NS, but putting the main bojectives and the spawn area together is not the best idea. One of the largest complaints i've noticed for a FPS is "Spawn Camping". This layout practically promotes one of the most annoying problems in a FPS. Second is respawn time. If the lower level aliens are to at times adequately compete against Marines then the spawn time for them should be decreased. That one is just a suggestion, not necessarily a concern. Finally i've noticed that at times its very hard to compete against the rapid firing Marines with the lesser alien forms, making some of them almost useless. Sorry if this offends anyone, as it did when pointing these out during gameplay. Some people seem to have lost the idea that these games are for fun and not to be taken 100% serious. Anyhow, that just my two cents.


One final thing i forgot. In the lowest alien form, when you bite you lose site of your target....i found this to be very irritating and not truly necessary.

Comments

  • BigMadSteveBigMadSteve Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13472Members
    To play well as the low level alien (skulk) you need to ambush the marines. Marines advantage is range, aliens is melee and surprise. If you hide above a doorway and he walks by without checking you kill him in two bites. Even if he does start firing you are a fast moving, small target at close range so you are hard to it. Takes some getting used to.
  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
    Firstly, I'd like to welcome you to the forums. New players are always welcome.

    I'm glad you already recognized that one or more of the things you mentioned is a "suggestion" more than a "concern." For this reason, you may want to check the FAQ in our <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=5' target='_blank'>Ideas and Suggestions forum</a>, which lists many guidelines of how to present such suggestions. Once you've read that and done a search or few to see if your concepts have been mentioned before, you may want to post in there with your own contributions.

    As for the spawn area being so near objectives: this is regularly something debated internally during playtests, particularly for our CO_ gameplay mode, where there is no alternative hive locations or choice of where Infantry Portals can be placed. We do what we can to keep players playing rather than staying frustrated, which is why we've had fairly regular changes between 3.0 betas 1-4.

    Several of the things you've noticed about aliens, particularly the basic lifeform (the skulk), are things that you learn to handle through a combination of practice, teamwork, and perhaps a little luck. Yes, it's true that while biting your view is obscured for a time, and you're not the first to notice. Running a search will return numerous threads from other people with the same concerns, and for this reason the 1st-person bite animation was sped up to take an even smaller fraction of a second. Killing marines as a skulk can be difficult, but if you find yourself getting mowed down by machinegun fire constantly, simply outsmart them: use vents to your advantage, avoid long hallways and instead ambush marines where they don't have their range advantage, or go in packs with your buddy skulks. Our <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=21' target='_blank'>Kharaa strategy</a> forums probably have even more ideas for you to try out.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    In other words, dump all of your suggestions in the Ideas and Suggestions Forum, where it will get burried with the trash that dominates that section. As for the Skulk's view being obscurred by it's jaws - this lifeform has somehow survived (along with the Lerk) through the trials of Natural Selection with its eyesight in its mouth. No matter how many suggestions have been made to (re)move the teeth or make them transparent, nothing has ever been done.
  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
    edited July 2004
    [edit]Self-nuke for being condescending towards Sarisel's above post
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    edited July 2004
    <span style='color:orange'>Related post nuked</span>
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2004
    Considering that you can <span style='color:orange'>sorry I had to edit this out Daxx22, but the developers consider this to be cheating. Can't go around telling everyone it's possible, much less easy.</span>
  • RedfordRedford Monorailcatfjord Join Date: 2002-04-28 Member: 528Members, NS1 Playtester
    Ironically, the main objective IS the spawn area, so you can stop spawning. Considering this fact, if an enemy has enough manpower to kill your spawn devcies, then he has enough manpower to spawncamp regardless. I never saw this as a real problem.
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    [Heh, mod delt with Daxx, nm...]
    A hint: Bite once, and then line up your next shot quickly, then bite again. THAT is the PROPER way to eat a marine's ankle. If you bite and hold it down, you blind yourself into not seeing the target.

    Be assured that the marine will get a immediate crack-rabit response, though.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    edited August 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Hobojoe+Jul 31 2004, 11:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobojoe @ Jul 31 2004, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> assuming i know what daxx is talking about, that method sucks because <span style='color:orange'>*snip*</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <span style='color:orange'>edited for same reason as above quote</span>
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2004
    The biggest mistake new skulks make is that they hold down the attack button. Bite once and re-adjust. Don't hold down the button, at least until you're fast enough to line up another bite in time for the second one. Spamming bite just makes you lose track of your target, as you described.
  • PvtBonesPvtBones Join Date: 2004-04-25 Member: 28187Members
    celerity(sp?) is a skulks best friend, but yes skulks are not shock troops their ambushers (is that even a word?)
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    The only time you hold the bite button is when you have the rine pinned into a wall or corner so they aren't gonna run away while you are blinded by your attack. Most of the time marines will jump when you hit them, so they get thrown a good distance away when you hit them, thus holding bite will just throw off your timeing the next time you go to hit your target.
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members
    Most of these topics have been disscussed for awhile now, and many would agree with your suggestions. But I fairly doubt any of them will be implamented soon, if at all. New spawns mean we need to revamp every single map, the bite animation was enforced since 1.04 and I doubt will ever change, and finally the spawn timing may be the only possible suggestion here although I see no need for it (Assuming a 6v6).
  • surprisesurprise Join Date: 2003-01-16 Member: 12382Members, Constellation
    i dont know why people complain about skulk teeth

    i mean, i managed to get used to them (i hardly notice them anymore), so why would you not be able to do the same?

    its just a matter or practice and i think the teeth provide a big part of athmosphere and a challenging aspect of the game you have to master

    id say the teeth have to stay as they are
  • wallerwaller Join Date: 2004-04-28 Member: 28281Members
    Personaly i've never ever had a problem with skulk teeth, not even on day one.
    Whenever i'm near a marine i can practicly hold mouse2 down (My +attack button) And navigate fine.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    Holding the attack button WILL make you lose a fraction of a second during fights if you miss a bite due to distance. That fraction of a second sometimes means kill or death. Also to the topic starter. Hiding above doorways might work, but most of the time don't. So try some unexpected hiding places, and don't get suprised if you get gunned down by a marine while at a spot you think is good.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-surprise+Aug 1 2004, 05:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (surprise @ Aug 1 2004, 05:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont know why people complain about skulk teeth

    i mean, i managed to get used to them (i hardly notice them anymore), so why would you not be able to do the same?

    its just a matter or practice and i think the teeth provide a big part of athmosphere and a challenging aspect of the game you have to master

    id say the teeth have to stay as they are <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    i dont know why people complain about carrying a ton of bricks on their backs

    i mean, i managed to get used to them (i hardly notice them anymore0, so why would you not be able to do the same?

    its just a matter of practice and i think the bricks provide a big part of athmosphere and a challenging aspect of life you have to master

    id say the bricks have to stay as they are


    But then again, why carry them in the first place? Teeth can easily remain in the game as they are, except they could be made transparent enough so that you can see through them when you bite. Right now, however, teeth serve as an annoying, frustrating, and quite ridiculous obstacle for new players to overcome.

    As for my bricks analogy - in life, there may be many things that you may think you have to bear. However, do you ever stop and ask why they are there in the first place?
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Aug 1 2004, 08:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Aug 1 2004, 08:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-surprise+Aug 1 2004, 05:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (surprise @ Aug 1 2004, 05:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont know why people complain about skulk teeth

    i mean, i managed to get used to them (i hardly notice them anymore), so why would you not be able to do the same?

    its just a matter or practice and i think the teeth provide a big part of athmosphere and a challenging aspect of the game you have to master

    id say the teeth have to stay as they are <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    i dont know why people complain about carrying a ton of bricks on their backs

    i mean, i managed to get used to them (i hardly notice them anymore0, so why would you not be able to do the same?

    its just a matter of practice and i think the bricks provide a big part of athmosphere and a challenging aspect of life you have to master

    id say the bricks have to stay as they are


    But then again, why carry them in the first place? Teeth can easily remain in the game as they are, except they could be made transparent enough so that you can see through them when you bite. Right now, however, teeth serve as an annoying, frustrating, and quite ridiculous obstacle for new players to overcome.

    As for my bricks analogy - in life, there may be many things that you may think you have to bear. However, do you ever stop and ask why they are there in the first place? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know why, but every once in a while the animations for all my attacks just cut out in-game. That means if I'm a marine there's no sound and no muzzleflash, and if I'm an alien the bite animation doesn't play. And you know what? The skulk is too frickin accurate with no bite animation. It's not like the developers don't know that the animation is annoying or distracting; it's there for balance. If you could run around spamming bite without hindrance, then there'd be no reason to learn to time your bites.
    Finding the right balance between being new player-friendly and having a good learning curve so the best players can show their skill is difficult, and often frustrating for the new players. Then again, once you get used to it you don't want it removed, because that will level the playing field with people you had originally been better than.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    Solution: Find a more suitable way to create a learning curve.

    A killing machine that goes blind in the middle of battle for a split second at a time doesn't seem likely to survive in combat, does it? No, it does not if the marine has half a brain.
  • jumpingjodajumpingjoda Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24367Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I <span style='color:red'><3</span> skulk teeth, can't imagine the game without. It makes the bite looking more powerfull (from the skulk wiev).
  • wallerwaller Join Date: 2004-04-28 Member: 28281Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Aug 1 2004, 05:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Aug 1 2004, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Holding the attack button WILL make you lose a fraction of a second during fights if you miss a bite due to distance. That fraction of a second sometimes means kill or death. Also to the topic starter. Hiding above doorways might work, but most of the time don't. So try some unexpected hiding places, and don't get suprised if you get gunned down by a marine while at a spot you think is good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I said i CAN, not that i do <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    When 1.0* was released this was discussed to death. People were really upset of why the skulk had its eyes inside the mouth as opposed to what the model shows. However then someone suggested that the "tooth" are actually eyelids of some kind... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • mirrodinmirrodin Join Date: 2004-06-29 Member: 29621Members
    I don't really mind the mouth view. Eyes in it's mouth are cool...

    I'm all for making the view transparent, so you can still see what's going on and still have the bite view.

    Same thing with the lork. I've never been fragged by a marine because of my teeth in the way.

    (Off topic: Usher's song is no longer the #1 song in America!!! I <3 the radio)
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