Replacing Regeneration
SmoodCroozn
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The Answer to Unchainers and Chainers...</div> I am seriously thinking this idea can work. It is simple to apply, but will encourage people to go other ways then DMS. It uses the chained idea but can satisfy unchainers.
Okay, I understand there are 2 groups. Those who opt for chained and those who are with unchained. I will briefly explain both ideas:
1) Chained chambers: when only 1 chamber can be built per hive, it is usually the defense chamber since larger life forms can survive longer without returning to the hive.
2) Unchained chambers: when all 3 chambers can be built at the same time. All 9 upgrades are available if each of the 3 chambers are built. However you can choose as many upgrrades as hives (1 Hive means 1 upgrade can be chosen from the 9)
Why did Ryo-Oki suggest unchained chambers? Because he was tired of the DMS structured style of alien play. Now let's look further into the problem...
Skulks gorges and lerks are okay with defense chambers because later they have fades and onos they can fall back on... these larger creatures have to rely on a key upgrade... REGENERATION!
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Regeneration is the problem here, because of it DMS HAS to stay. Regen allows aliens to stay in battle fields longer which in turn makes them stronger. It has turned from a helpful upgrade to an essential one.</span></span>
My idea is this:
Make regeneration a passive trait that you automatically have as you start the game. This way aliens can start using movements or sensory chambers. This standard regen will have to be nerfed or the stats of aliens will have to since it's like giving a free upgrade.
Next, you maybe wondering what skill will replace the o-powerful regen?
An idea I had is an upgrade is called "rejuvenate". What it does is when you upgrade it, it makes regen work stronger, but ONLY when you are not using the a, s, d or w keys.
Therefore, you can still receive regular healing from regen as always, get shot, whatever, you still heal. But when you get this upgrade, you will heal faster when you stand still.
But is there really a better upgrade?
Though many of you may dismiss my "rejuvenate" idea, I really do not care. The real problem is regeneration, and the fact that aliens are literally bound to it. If regeneration becomes a passive trait, it could solve many problems. If you have any ideas of replacing regeneration, please post in this thread.
Chambers are not the enemy, it is actually regen.
EDIT: Took out Absorb added it later, Regen works whenever, whatever situation you are in
Okay, I understand there are 2 groups. Those who opt for chained and those who are with unchained. I will briefly explain both ideas:
1) Chained chambers: when only 1 chamber can be built per hive, it is usually the defense chamber since larger life forms can survive longer without returning to the hive.
2) Unchained chambers: when all 3 chambers can be built at the same time. All 9 upgrades are available if each of the 3 chambers are built. However you can choose as many upgrrades as hives (1 Hive means 1 upgrade can be chosen from the 9)
Why did Ryo-Oki suggest unchained chambers? Because he was tired of the DMS structured style of alien play. Now let's look further into the problem...
Skulks gorges and lerks are okay with defense chambers because later they have fades and onos they can fall back on... these larger creatures have to rely on a key upgrade... REGENERATION!
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Regeneration is the problem here, because of it DMS HAS to stay. Regen allows aliens to stay in battle fields longer which in turn makes them stronger. It has turned from a helpful upgrade to an essential one.</span></span>
My idea is this:
Make regeneration a passive trait that you automatically have as you start the game. This way aliens can start using movements or sensory chambers. This standard regen will have to be nerfed or the stats of aliens will have to since it's like giving a free upgrade.
Next, you maybe wondering what skill will replace the o-powerful regen?
An idea I had is an upgrade is called "rejuvenate". What it does is when you upgrade it, it makes regen work stronger, but ONLY when you are not using the a, s, d or w keys.
Therefore, you can still receive regular healing from regen as always, get shot, whatever, you still heal. But when you get this upgrade, you will heal faster when you stand still.
But is there really a better upgrade?
Though many of you may dismiss my "rejuvenate" idea, I really do not care. The real problem is regeneration, and the fact that aliens are literally bound to it. If regeneration becomes a passive trait, it could solve many problems. If you have any ideas of replacing regeneration, please post in this thread.
Chambers are not the enemy, it is actually regen.
EDIT: Took out Absorb added it later, Regen works whenever, whatever situation you are in
Comments
The only lifeforms i think need regen are lerks and onos, lerks can get back to a hive really quickly though. Onos use regeneration because carapace currently hardly does anything for them.
The reason people use regen is because after u retreat, being low health, a single marine just wandering around the map can take u down.
Therefore:
if you have cara u still need regen or redemption.
if you have redemption u aren't in battle for as long.
if you have regeneration you have to run away.
Redemption and regen are both effective and have their disadvantages but carapace just means u can fight for a little longer before you run away and if you encounter any enemies on your way back you are stuffed.
So i reckon carapace needs improving or changing for the higher lifeforms which cost too much res to be lost because of a single marine u encounter while travelling half-way across the map back to your hive.
Of course I'm thinking regen only works when you don't move and you are not getting shot. So if a fade is attacking your base, he wouldn't be regenerating, and would actually be weaker.
If he is weak, you can actually chase him down, and since he won't be regenerating while running, you can kill him.
(wats wrong with the word hover?)
Maybe this nerf AND an improved heal spray (increase range and especially healing rate at onos) would decrease the amount of DMS-rounds and encourage perma/support-gorges!
What you say is true. Fades need regen in order to function at their maximum potential when they are not in a hive area. I would only take cara as a fade if most of the fighting is taking place next to the hives, and never with less than 2 hives. Onii simply need regen, period. So yes, regen is the 'uber' upgrade.
I might trade regen for a vampirism upgrade as long as it actually healed 80+ HP a swipe. That's 8 rounds of lvl 0 LMG damage healed per hit; nowhere close to keeping you alive against multiple marines by simply attacking, but in the hands of a decent fade who can blink-swipe properly, it would be very useful.
As for your suggestion that regen passively heals on standstill, I have to disagree. Aliens cannot afford to stand still long enough to regenerate. The alien game is based on mobility, and having to stand still is too much of a handicap. Think about this in terms of the fade, who has to respond to every marine breakout and entrenchment as quickly as possible. Are you going to stand still for 45 seconds waiting to regen? Hell no.
the fade may need a little nerf like -50ap (but maybe not if the hit box is fixed)
but i think it would have to be on all the time/same healing rate as the upgrade is now to be worth the change.
it just might be the death of D.M.S.
Though the vampiric attack may sound cool, I'm not sure how the gorges will um heal. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You have to see both sides to this idea, marines might get scared of it like Hydralisk, while Zek and Florp think it is too weak.
Keep in mind I am open to other suggestions for another "defense" upgrade.
How about this:
Regen works just like beta4a where you can run around get shot, whatever and it will heal. As I said in my first post, if comes standard when you start the game. Life forms will each be nerfed accordingly or regen will have to be weakened.
Now this upgrade is called "rejuvenate" and what it does is when you upgrade it, it makes regen work stronger, but ONLY when you are motionless and not getting shot. I am thinking you can attack, so you can have "rejuvenate" work with metabolize, but you can't move your legs (can't use a,s,d or w).
Therefore, you can still receive regular healing from regen as always, get shot, whatever, you still heal. But when you get this upgrade, you will heal faster when you stand still and not get shot.
Do you guys like my ideas?
Current List:
- Absorb (Gives HP based on damage done)
- Rejuvenate (Gives HP based on time, works while stationary and not attacked)
Anyway, I love the concept. "Absorb" sounds like a dangerous concept though, like WC3 CS Vampire which could result in crazy melee powers because of the "I'm killing you and gaining HP" dynamic.
I still don't see too much reason to live chambers chained even with these changes though - chained chambers add an element of supreme predictability atm, degrading gameplay to a simple rush-for-the-obvious where clever deception, speed and even teamplay can be secondary to the raw amount of firepower brought around to stop the aliens main objective.
But to replace regen... I don't know... I like the absorb idea, but I think it would become too overpowered. You could possibly make it only work with melee/slot1 attacks, but it would really make the fades harder to kill since their main weapon is Swipe anyways.
Seems like a good idea, but it should not go any higher after a certain amount of players are in an area... or maybe it should to help with the fact that 12v12 is not very fair to the aliens. With all 12 aliens in one room fighting to protect their last hive with their last res all helping each other survive would be pretty intense.
EDIT: Or horribly unbalanced (aka invincible aliens)...
- <b>natural defense</b> (you will spawn a spore cloud when hit)
- <b>healing aura</b> (when you are on full health you can heal nearby lifeforms)
- <b>petrify</b> (when you dont move for 5 - 10 seconds your skin hardens and you take only 1/5 damage)
- <b>phagocytize</b> (after you damaged an enemy your natural-regen rate increases by 1/3 or higher, adjustable)
- <b>reincarnation</b> (you die and after 5 seconds you respawn at the location where you died with only 1/2 of your HP)
I thought this ideas fit to the topic of this thread, so don´t flame me like "this isn´t I&S bla bla.... "
However, the perma-regen must still be active when moving - otherwise, it would frustrating and boring. Enemy fire stopping regen sounds good, but like others said, the onos would need some sort of buffing up. Perhaps making charge useful will do the trick.
- healing aura (when you are on full health you can heal nearby lifeforms)
- petrify (when you dont move for 5 - 10 seconds your skin hardens and you take only 1/5 damage)
- phagocytize (after you damaged an enemy your natural-regen rate increases by 1/3 or higher, adjustable)
- reincarnation (you die and after 5 seconds you respawn at the location where you died with only 1/2 of your HP)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh wow, those are actually really, balanced good ideas(except reincarnation and natural defense). Very good indeed <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Post those in the S&I if you can
vote me for becoming a playtester <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, if you made DCs only heal structures you wouldn't get idiots hiding in vents at the end of the game as no hives would mean no regen.
If DCs won´t heal lifeforms at all, they would completely suck.
- <b>petrify</b> (when you dont move for 5 - 10 seconds your skin hardens and you take only 1/5 damage)
- <b>phagocytize</b> (after you damaged an enemy your natural-regen rate increases by 1/3 or higher, adjustable) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like these 3.
Healing aura should also stack when more than 1 alien with the upgrade comes into range (max of 3 aura's working on 1 alien). Each level increases range and only has the power of a lvl1 regen (thusly 3 aliens will give lvl3 regen, stacking with the "perma-regen")
Petrify should work just like cloaking in the sense that you can still move slowly and be "hardened". Each level determines how much damage is recieved.
Phagocytize is good, but should only last 5 seconds or so and either the number of seconds it lasts or how much is healed should depend on the level.
Just my extra .02$ on your .02$ <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comm, I'm in I&S. Drop me a CC. Let's relocate, quick!
Just curious, when would Petrify be useful? As soon as you start moving during the fight, it goes away, right?
- You have a regen just like beta4a that works ALL the time (getting shot at, running, etc.). It would have to be weaker than level 3 regen on beta4a, since you are literally getting regen for free.
- My suggestion is that an upgrade called "rejuvenation" increases the rate of regen, BUT you must be standing still to use it.
Sorry for the mixup, I am all for regen working when you get shot, run around and stuff. The upgrade however only works when you are not moving your a, s, d, and w keys.
Nice ideas!
Well Bob, I just wanted to clarify to people who are intelligent and DON'T browse through S&I (it has a bad reputation you know), since everyone is so caught up with Unchaining chambers. I am trying to find a medium for people who are unchainers and chainers, and I believe this thread makes a solution in that part. I COULD have posted this in S&I, but I really don't my hard thought idea that analyzes the truth about Unchaining to be thrown away for some "Mahrinez shud git som snipa rifleds!!" sort of idea.
I know that maybe this isn't the best forum to post this, but I want my idea taken seriously.
Just curious, when would Petrify be useful? As soon as you start moving during the fight, it goes away, right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can currently only think of three reasons of why it would be useful. #1 would be to protect your butt from being insta-killed while cloaked. #2 If you need to go AFK for a sec, it will be harder to get that free kill. #3 Building killer... just stand there and tank the damage while killing that building. And if it goes away when attacking, just tank the damage and draw fire for the other aliens.
Rejuvenation - increases the rate of regen, BUT you can't use w. a. s. or d keys, or get attacked
Absorb - gives health based on damage inflicted on marines (slot 1 attacks only)
Petrify - increases armor when not moving
Healing Aura - heal others nearby when you are at 100% health
Phagocytize - regen is improved after damaging enemy
Natural Defense - fires a spore cloud at your location when you are attacked
Reincarnation - respawns you with 50% health/armor in the same spot you died after waiting 5-10 seconds
*Please write WHY an upgrade is bad rather than saying "it's a no-no", thank you.*
*I am going to make a poll after 10 submissions are in.*