Whats Lame And Whats Not?

OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
edited July 2004 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">opinions and onions about short games.</div> Its almost funny, you see a game ending in less than 5 minutes and at least 2 ppl claim that "this was lame" or that he "knows that the game is unballanced" just because of a complete lack of defense of one team, wich is the simple reason for such short games most times, apart from F4ing or stacking.
But "zerg rushes" and "tower rushes", simply very offensive games with a little risk are just part of good real time strategy game and part of ballancing them.

so this is my opinion about what is "lame" and what not:

Loosing a game - no (essential for lame whining)
F4 to surrender - no (its not fun but fair)
Shotgun rush or any rush on the first hive - no (just get lerks)
Skulk rush - no (just get mines)
2 hive lockdown and a lot of electrifiing - no (just get mc and healing gorges)
Spawncamping - no (valid offensive strategy for both sides)
Relocating to double or infront of the first hive - no (just get anything but dc first)
Killing with doors and elevators - no (killed a chargng 3 hive onos in a door once)
Phasegate and ip fragging - yes (unneccessary kills on both sides)
Any kinds of exploits, bunnyhopping and unrealistic fast shooting / behavior - yes (ns is no realism mod but keep it fair!)
Build huge walls of lame in a lost game - yes (most times no need to extend that game)
Friendly fire on - yes (ns doesnt fit to friendly fire)
Stacking of experienced players in one team - yes (not fair)
having powersilo or maintenance as starting hive - oooh yes (not ballanced)

Stop the lame whining anyways.
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Comments

  • The_IRSThe_IRS Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23798Members
    edited July 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any kinds of exploits, bunnyhopping and unrealistic fast shooting / behavior - yes (ns is no realism mod but keep it fair!)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your saying bhopping is an exploit? <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
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  • Jared101Jared101 Join Date: 2004-02-22 Member: 26804Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    F4 to surrender - no (its not fun but fair)
    Friendly fire on - yes (ns doesnt fit to friendly fire)
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    f4 is just annoying,most servers kick f4ers

    ff on ns is fine
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  • OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
    edited July 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-The_IRS+Jul 24 2004, 01:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_IRS @ Jul 24 2004, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any kinds of exploits, bunnyhopping and unrealistic fast shooting / behavior - yes (ns is no realism mod but keep it fair!)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your saying bhopping is an exploit?<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, just unrealistic.
    And its not fair moving 1,5 times as fast just because you can and others dont.
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  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    edited July 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Jul 24 2004, 01:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Jul 24 2004, 01:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-The_IRS+Jul 24 2004, 01:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_IRS @ Jul 24 2004, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Jul 24 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any kinds of exploits, bunnyhopping and unrealistic fast shooting / behavior - yes (ns is no realism mod but keep it fair!)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your saying bhopping is an exploit? <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, just unrealistic.
    And its not fair moving 1,5 times as fast just because you can and others dont. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It isn't that others can't they just won't
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  • The_IRSThe_IRS Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23798Members
    edited July 2004
    <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
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  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    edited July 2004
    There should be an official manual instructing all players how to bhop, with a thumbs-up from the dev team that bhoping is completely legal. Only then will it be fair and <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
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  • God_KillerGod_Killer Join Date: 2004-02-16 Member: 26592Members
    edited July 2004
    <span style='color:white'>Let's don't go there.</span>

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Phasegate and ip fragging - yes (unneccessary kills on both sides)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed!

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Build huge walls of lame in a lost game - yes (most times no need to extend that game)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah cos these guys are the reason they lost! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <span style='color:white'>Related post nuked.</span>
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  • ArawnArawn Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12954Members
    edited July 2004
    Well, I agree with Ollj in the case of scripters <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> I don't care if you can already do it; I respect the people that can, but I also think you should -ONLY- do it using normal controls...I don't care how tedious it is or if lag is messing it up. I just switched to a bad **** computer from my old 500 mhz with a 4 mb onboard video card. I got 10 fps regularly on a good day but it was usually around 4 in addition to normal lag. If you can't bunny hop by yourself with everyday lag either your connection is sad or <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
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  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    edited July 2004
    <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
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  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    edited July 2004
    There is no lame. What you consider lame is just a part of the game that is used to gain an advantage/disadvantage over the other team.

    With that said, I find phase rushes pretty lame....but it's there XD

    And about bunnyhopping....

    Flayra removed it for the marines and left them in for aliens. Nuff' said. It's staying in the game until it's decided to be removed.
    EDIT : Don't get me wrong though, I can't bunnyhop at all so meh.
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  • Lone_IsleLone_Isle Join Date: 2003-11-24 Member: 23484Members, Constellation
    edited July 2004
    <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>

    I agree with the OP that stacking of skilled players on one side is cheap and ruins the game on many occassions.
    What is more annoying are the people who constantly <span style='color:white'>Dodge this.</span> about noobs even when most of the players on the team have tried their hardest.

    Instead of saying: "gj guys, we tried, we should of done this and this prolly for teh win"
    they go: "OMG you f**king nubs p**s me off"

    And then, there are these people with the gall to actually tell you to uninstall NS.

    I rank these people alongside the lamers who presume they can tell others how to play, and what is l337 and what is lame, just because they top the kill list.

    Get a life.
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  • AlkillerAlkiller Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28847Members
    I agree with you on the most part. I hate bunny hopping because I can't do it. Never have been able to... meh I live with it.
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  • LittleToeLittleToe Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19163Members
    edited July 2004
    bh is part of the game

    i hate spawn camping for the win but only if they do it untill they get jp's

    wol is a nessisary part of winning a game. you need to pin them in. if you dont you may find yourself out af a hive and a new marine base in its place. from there they move quickly to the second hive and if you cannt save it in time your in deep. this is unlikely but i have seen the three hive loss many times before (leaves you saying how in the hell did that happen). even if you have them pined in inside 5 min you still need to make sure they cannt get out. you will only have a few fades at most by the 5 min mark and hive one fades are no match against 10 marines.
    you need healing stations around MS to quikly hit and run untill you have killed enough of them to finaly crush them. marines do not get weaker dispite the fact they are loseing. by the 5 min mark they have armor 1 and wepons 2 maybe even hmg's (rfk = no need for rt's).

    edit...

    or did you mean wol at the end for the kharra? if so yes that is lame.
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  • MrMojoMrMojo Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9882Members, Constellation
    Google search for "bhop"

    Second result <a href='http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/' target='_blank'>http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/</a>
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  • PogoPPogoP Environment Artist Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25827Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation
    Kind of easy to stop bunny hopping anyways, just learnt he pattern and shoot away.
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  • Red_SquirrelRed_Squirrel Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24414Members
    Early rushes are not lame and is a valid tacic <i>but</i> I do not find them very fun on the receiving end. If you die then it's game over and you'll probably go the same side again because you don't feel you had a very good 'turn' with it and so will a lot of other people so they're pointless. If you survive you usually are quite badly set back and sometimes never really recover and end up losing in the end.
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  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-PogoP+Jul 24 2004, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PogoP @ Jul 24 2004, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Kind of easy to stop bunny hopping anyways, just learnt he pattern and shoot away. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Agreed.
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  • MumuMumu Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5463Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    imho ending a nearly endless game with f4 isn't lame
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  • KaMiKaZe1KaMiKaZe1 Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9196Members
    I've always felt spawncamping to be a perfectly valid strategy. If a skilled marine can ninja into the alien hive and buy his team some time to control the map, why not? If the aliens don't want to defend their hive, they can die.
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  • cortexcortex Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23707Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the aliens don't want to defend their hive, they can die.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    its usually not a case of not wanting to defend the hive its more of a cant.
    and in the case of what is and what isnt lame i find Kamikaze's sig extremely lame.
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  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    Heh, I sometimes REALLY miss a "surrender" button, but I'm afraid that if the devs add one, it will be abused...



    Most of the players lack uhm..discipline
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  • Al_KaholicAl_Kaholic Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25821Members, Constellation
    What annoys me is when a team perfectly capable of winning the game simply <i>refuses</i> to; 1-hive Skulks or Marines supressed inside their base by OCs alone have very little chance to turn the tides and are at the mercy of the oncoming onsluaght. However, there's no mercy from the wicked, and they'd much rather play fun games with the enemy living on borrowed time. And so, 10 minutes of this torment passes...20 minutes...

    I honestly cannot stand this, no matter what team I'm on. If you're on the verge of victory, you deserve it as well as the benefits of it. But if you want to drag it on and rub it in your opponent's face, could your victory truly be relished? Perhaps by you, but you're not going to hear much "GG" from people.

    As for F4ing, I simply don't. I'd much rather go down fighting than to notice at the last second the rest of my team has abandoned me.
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  • VampMasterVampMaster Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14585Members
    Bhop is not something lame, if you can do it, then grats to you. If you can't do it... you can learn THEN grats to you.

    F4ing may not be lame, but it is dishonorable... which is just as bad if not worse.
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  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Google search for "bhop"

    Second result <a href='http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/' target='_blank'>http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.planetfortress.com/misanthropy/bunnyhopping.asp' target='_blank'>Here</a>'s another one for ya. I can't seem to find the TFC guide I originally used (I saw it on IRC one fine morning, but I forgot to add it to my favorites and I haven't seen it since), but I'll keep looking.
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  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Narfwak+Jul 24 2004, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Jul 24 2004, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Google search for "bhop"

    Second result <a href='http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/' target='_blank'>http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.planetfortress.com/misanthropy/bunnyhopping.asp' target='_blank'>Here</a>'s another one for ya. I can't seem to find the TFC guide I originally used (I saw it on IRC one fine morning, but I forgot to add it to my favorites and I haven't seen it since), but I'll keep looking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And yet another <a href='http://www.si-central.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=119' target='_blank'>one</a> for scrubs who dont' want to admit learning to bhop is easier than they think
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  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    I once heard about something that can be build in by devs, that makes bhopping as easy as tapping you spacebar, like you can in Painkiller.
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  • CypherCypher Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14579Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 24 2004, 12:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 24 2004, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Narfwak+Jul 24 2004, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Jul 24 2004, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jul 24 2004, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Google search for "bhop"

    Second result <a href='http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/' target='_blank'>http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.planetfortress.com/misanthropy/bunnyhopping.asp' target='_blank'>Here</a>'s another one for ya. I can't seem to find the TFC guide I originally used (I saw it on IRC one fine morning, but I forgot to add it to my favorites and I haven't seen it since), but I'll keep looking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And yet another <a href='http://www.si-central.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=119' target='_blank'>one</a> for scrubs who dont' want to admit learning to bhop is easier than they think <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    oh oh! i've got one too!

    <a href='http://bhop.othell.com/' target='_blank'>http://bhop.othell.com/</a>
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  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cypher-+Jul 24 2004, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cypher- @ Jul 24 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh oh! i've got one too!

    <a href='http://bhop.othell.com/' target='_blank'>http://bhop.othell.com/</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's the one I saw on IRC! Many thanks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • CypherCypher Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14579Members
    I was gonna say it was probably the TFC one you were talking about but i thought it would destroy the mood.
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  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mumu+Jul 24 2004, 03:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mumu @ Jul 24 2004, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> imho ending a nearly endless game with f4 isn't lame <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Also agreed.
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