Will Marines Ever Be Nerfed And Aliens Boosted?
Skyrage
Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
Here are the things that I'd want to see changed so that classic NS would be somewhat bearable for the alien team...basically it's a summary of a bunch of ideas from here and there:
1. The most recent one...shotgun random spread....just a minor thing compared to the rest below...
2. OC's dealing full damage to HA's...they dealt full damage before, but that was when the khaara was way too powerful, which today, they are not so change it back. With the marine turrets dealing full damage to everything and generally being 10 times better than an OC, I think that this is a minor request to say the least.
3. Major nerfing of the MT...khaara are supposed to ambush, which is one of their strong points...MT, which has been mentioned a million times before, removes this strength altogether...and for the love of god, make it so that you are allowed to look around when standing still WITHOUT activating the darn thing...
4. Removal of the RFK for the rines...obvious reasons...with their res being a collective pool, I don't see any reason for why marines should be walking resource towers...the ability to survive on 0 restowers while the khaara can't survive without having at least 3-4 is...ludicrous...
5. Preferably, nerfing the siege some more...I don't see any reason for why the marines should be able to come back to full strength in any situation while it's nearly impossible to do so for the khaara...and once khaara are in the disadvantage (skulks and gorges only ingame VS HA's), then siege tactics are completely impossible to stop. The marine equivalent of disadvantage is nothing compared to this. Thus, nerf the siege or better, remove it altogether...rines have SG's and HA's and grenades already...
And finally, 6. Make the onos and fades what they are supposed to be...fearsome...
Remove the stomp from onos and replace it with something else which doesn't paralyze or stun marines, but double the armor and HP at least...as for the fade, if it can't match up against one rambo HA+HMG in close combat then it's not worth it...and right now it doesn't match up...
Whew...I'm done with the rant now I guess...
1. The most recent one...shotgun random spread....just a minor thing compared to the rest below...
2. OC's dealing full damage to HA's...they dealt full damage before, but that was when the khaara was way too powerful, which today, they are not so change it back. With the marine turrets dealing full damage to everything and generally being 10 times better than an OC, I think that this is a minor request to say the least.
3. Major nerfing of the MT...khaara are supposed to ambush, which is one of their strong points...MT, which has been mentioned a million times before, removes this strength altogether...and for the love of god, make it so that you are allowed to look around when standing still WITHOUT activating the darn thing...
4. Removal of the RFK for the rines...obvious reasons...with their res being a collective pool, I don't see any reason for why marines should be walking resource towers...the ability to survive on 0 restowers while the khaara can't survive without having at least 3-4 is...ludicrous...
5. Preferably, nerfing the siege some more...I don't see any reason for why the marines should be able to come back to full strength in any situation while it's nearly impossible to do so for the khaara...and once khaara are in the disadvantage (skulks and gorges only ingame VS HA's), then siege tactics are completely impossible to stop. The marine equivalent of disadvantage is nothing compared to this. Thus, nerf the siege or better, remove it altogether...rines have SG's and HA's and grenades already...
And finally, 6. Make the onos and fades what they are supposed to be...fearsome...
Remove the stomp from onos and replace it with something else which doesn't paralyze or stun marines, but double the armor and HP at least...as for the fade, if it can't match up against one rambo HA+HMG in close combat then it's not worth it...and right now it doesn't match up...
Whew...I'm done with the rant now I guess...
Comments
2. A minor point: turrets deal half damage to oni. However in the next patch they're going to benefit from wpn upgrades *shudder*. OCs should deal full dmg to HA; never have I seen an OC kill a HA.
3. MT doesn't need a nerf; the alien counter, SC, needs to be viable. Unchaining the chambers will accomplish that, plus give the aliens much needed ambush capabilities.
4. Agreed.
5. No. The seige is a balanced part of the game. The inbalanced part is the marine's massive res flow, cheap RTs, the alien's expensive ones and the uselessness of OCs.
6. Fades are already fearsome. For the Onos I suggested making charge a passive ability but it vanished in the morass of I&S pretty quickly.
Fades are early game dominancy. Why they should compleatly own the late game too would be beyond me.
Seriously folks, I don't understand your mentality on the aliens- they shouldn't be "OMG A SKULK WE NEED 6 MARINES TO KILL IT OHNO" and "ROFFLE MAYO I R BIG ALIEN IT IS FUN TO KILL AN ENTIRE TEAM KNOWING THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH SKILL THEY HAVE THEY CANNOT WIN LORF"
Think balence. Not "omg that's cool."
Siege is fine- why'd you let them get into position to siege in the first place? Think about it.
The aliens need a few minor boosts. They don't need to be turned into tanks.
Which thread are you reading?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You got half your post right. Marines dont need nerfing... aliens need buffing in a few areas. once thats done everything will be alllllll good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
1 HA + HMG cost in all around 30-35 res, fades cost 50 - 56 res, i Do think a fade should be able to win against 1 HA if theyre both at equal skill but of course it would take time and a pretty cool fight, if 1 HA could own a fade alone, that only encourages MORE RAMOGING on marine side, which ruins gameplay, which ruins teamwork, which ruins FUN. thats what games are supposed to be right? fun. not frustrating, which as we can all see is the direction NS is heading <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It wouldn't take much to put balance back on track like that. The players have to handle their new advantages and disadvantages to revamp strategies, and then the balance will slowly kick into place. That's why in some of the earlier versions, aliens started more powerful until the marines slowly turned the advantage to their side when they picked up on what worked and what didn't.
1 HA + HMG cost in all around 30-35 res, fades cost 50 - 56 res, i Do think a fade should be able to win against 1 HA if theyre both at equal skill but of course it would take time and a pretty cool fight, if 1 HA could own a fade alone, that only encourages MORE RAMOGING on marine side, which ruins gameplay, which ruins teamwork, which ruins FUN. thats what games are supposed to be right? fun. not frustrating, which as we can all see is the direction NS is heading <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HA + HMG requires 7+ minutes of teching up and several buildings, that cost is around what... close to 150 res?
Really bad comparison there buddy.
Also, if a fade could beat an HA in the first run it would suck horribly, and be very unfun. A fade would be able to just walk over a marine. Not cool. Teched up sides (providing both sides are teched) should not be able to just 'win'. That's never fun.
1 HA + HMG cost in all around 30-35 res, fades cost 50 - 56 res, i Do think a fade should be able to win against 1 HA if theyre both at equal skill but of course it would take time and a pretty cool fight, if 1 HA could own a fade alone, that only encourages MORE RAMOGING on marine side, which ruins gameplay, which ruins teamwork, which ruins FUN. thats what games are supposed to be right? fun. not frustrating, which as we can all see is the direction NS is heading <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HA + HMG requires 7+ minutes of teching up and several buildings, that cost is around what... close to 150 res?
Really bad comparison there buddy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why don't you compare how much faster the marines will get 150 res then the aliens will? I think it's a fair comparison.
Well, MT getting a slight nerf is good thing I think. Nerf it, and reduce its cost.
Onos needs to have a faster base speed.
Skulks needs to have armor boosted.
Seiges are fine. They're not affected by damage upgrades,and if you only have gorges and skulks, then you're not supposed to be able to stop HA. You've lost.
Skulks need an armor increase. That should be the only alien improvement in one patch, and after that we should see how the balance works out. Like psychotic said, skulks being boosted so that they're stronger than a single LA/LMG will change the whole game; it forces marines to group up, thus significantly hindering their early game map control which gives them the cash to do everything else. If aliens are still suffering after that then we can look at more changes.
It wouldn't take much to put balance back on track like that. The players have to handle their new advantages and disadvantages to revamp strategies, and then the balance will slowly kick into place. That's why in some of the earlier versions, aliens started more powerful until the marines slowly turned the advantage to their side when they picked up on what worked and what didn't. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wonderful <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> the light of reson.
makeing lots of changes is not the way to go. remember K.I.S.S.? Keep It Simple Stupid. that works most of the time but you must still think of what the change will mean as a whole.
Why should RFK being removed for marines, and holded in game for aliens? It makes IMO no sense. Keep it for both or remove it for <b>both</b>! Or is it a special alien ability to obtain ress out of a dead body?
At least (if it cant be removed) dont make it random! Whats random? Another special ability of the aliens/marines to be lucky and get 3 ress for a kill?
Ok, I landed at the "random" point, please remove the "random-medpack-drop" from the armory. Sometimes it takes 10 "uses" to get 1 medpack. Just change the "uses" to seconds and let the armory drop a medpack for 1 marine in range every 10 seconds. (Someone in the old-vet-forum mentioned the removal of random things before.)
1 HA + HMG cost in all around 30-35 res, fades cost 50 - 56 res, i Do think a fade should be able to win against 1 HA if theyre both at equal skill but of course it would take time and a pretty cool fight, if 1 HA could own a fade alone, that only encourages MORE RAMOGING on marine side, which ruins gameplay, which ruins teamwork, which ruins FUN. thats what games are supposed to be right? fun. not frustrating, which as we can all see is the direction NS is heading <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The most expensive marine unit is welder+mines+weapon+armour suit = at most 50 res, most expensive alien unit = 75 res, aliens must always win! OR you are just an idiot.
And besides umbraed cara fades vs ha hmg is at least comparable, the official counter to a ha is an onos :/
Yes - bacteria.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->At least (if it cant be removed) dont make it random! Whats random? Another special ability of the aliens/marines to be lucky and get 3 ress for a kill?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's down to bacteria/nanites.
It suits the skulks to not have their deaths count against them. They're not meant to care much about self-preservation, whereas marines are.
1 HA + HMG cost in all around 30-35 res, fades cost 50 - 56 res, i Do think a fade should be able to win against 1 HA if theyre both at equal skill but of course it would take time and a pretty cool fight, if 1 HA could own a fade alone, that only encourages MORE RAMOGING on marine side, which ruins gameplay, which ruins teamwork, which ruins FUN. thats what games are supposed to be right? fun. not frustrating, which as we can all see is the direction NS is heading <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This depends on the level of hives though. On one hive, the fade wouldn't really be able to kill him on his own, because assuming he's halfdecent, the marine will run away for help. The fade would take a lot of time to heal.
At two hives, the fade can heal very fast with Meta as well as absorb more damage, in which case a single HA marine is almost certainly toast, assuming the fade isn't a nublet either.
Also, stop using arguements such as "Well, an onos costs 75 res, so he should never be able to get killed by a team of LMG marines, which cost 0 res". It doesn't work that way, come on. Stop being blunt.
id dig :edit: UP :/edit: some quotes to prove it, but im eating and lazy <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
or healing... if your healing you show up on MT.
or healing... if your healing you show up on MT. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're kidding me right? Holy cow MT should not be able to do that in my opinion lol.
2. Skulks armor should be boosted to 20.
3. MT only works on running, jumping aliens.
4. Charge is fine, but make sometimes I have to press it twice to work.
5. Give spores an alternative use to heavies. Maybe it makes them walk slower? Lerks at hive 1 are completely useless against heavies.
6. Make armory medpack a timed thing as someone suggested.
7. Make catpacks like grenades, you research them once and they will be with marines forever. They are held in slot 4 and can be activated. This will help it to be researched and not neglected in 99% of games.
8. I don't know but maybe this idea might be interesting, when marines get upgrades like level 1 armor, to recieve it you need to walk and touch the arms lab to get it if you are in another area. If you died in the field however and you didn't touch the arms lab, you spawn with level 1 armor. I don't know, it might help make it a bit more realistic and have a short period of relief for aliens.
9. Gorge cost to 5, starting res to 20, lerk cost to 25.
(Spikes make a single lerk be able to take down buildings if positioned far away. Therefore, keep it removed.)
My 2 cents :O
I am assuming you are directing this against my idea of spores slowing down heavies... I KNOW heavies own hive 1. I KNOW by then the game is over. BUT the fact is heavies erase a weapon from the kharaa. All I ask is spores to maybe slow down movement from heavies. This way when your second hive falls, lerks won't just watch the action or die wastefully. They are a support class and I'm asking that they do their job.
Someone commented on why the RFK shouldn't be removed for the marines? Well, imagine the marines being turteled down, and having 0 restowers, but they also have a bunch of heavies, with welders, shotguns and HMG's...when they rack up kills, they get res, and they pro-long the siege...heck, with some luck they can get back to the game altogether...either the khaara should have the same chance to be able to do the same thing (which they don't), or the marines shouldn't be able to survive like that...I don't care which, as long as both teams have either an equal chance in getting back in the game or losing once a certain point is reached.