Fades Is Combat
keep_it_Gangsta
Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17632Members
Whenever I play combat as alien I always save my first 3 points and go fade straight away, then it is easy to build up levels fast.
sometimes I can get through combat round without dying.
To sum up this post
Fades are so overpowered now in combat its not even funny.
Solution, I dont know, how about making it so that you cant go fade untill lvl 5 or above.
(please not this is a completely combat orientated post only)
sometimes I can get through combat round without dying.
To sum up this post
Fades are so overpowered now in combat its not even funny.
Solution, I dont know, how about making it so that you cant go fade untill lvl 5 or above.
(please not this is a completely combat orientated post only)
Comments
I think most of those marines will disagree with you.
But anyway it doesnt matter how good you are, you wont easily kill a fade that knows what he/she is doing. Only way is if you accidentally run into someone during your retreat, get stuck on a ladder etc, and even then <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
of course fades are overpowered in co but thats why we have these people insisting not to go higher lifeform. i think that balances pretty nicely. (EDIT: personally i am against locking lifeforms/anything else for until a certain level.)
if you want to put a min level for fade (and onos) then do so for shotty too and hmg. and perhaps jp/ha altho i have no problems with people who rush proto upgrades.
In classic, fades are fine imo. The problem is that fades can become a lot more powerful in combat with their extra upgrades (particularly in servers with the 21-level plugin) than they can in classic, while marines can only tech up to the same level that is possible in classic. Also, the fade is supposed to be a powerful unit in classic mode as it is, a cara fade can take on lvl 3 ha's and thats the way it should be.
I'm not sure what exactly needs changing.. maybe limiting to fades to 1 defence upgrade.. but that kind of goes against what combat is about. I just hope if there are balance changes made, they are only for combat.
i do the same thing when i plan on going fade. by that time a few already have sg.
you will get kills here and there but you are not god like.
if you can kill the marine team with a no up-grade fade (or even with all the up-grades) you need to go to a server with better marines.
***************skulk***************
****************||*****************
**************gorge(1)*************
****************||*****************
****Fade(3)****lerk(1)****Onos(3)****
And in addition, limit the Fade to one defensive upgrade. Problem solved, no more uber Fade.
For the marine side, marines can't get the shotgun before level 4 or maybe 5, and HMG/GL can't show up until level 6.
***************skulk***************
****************||*****************
**************gorge(1)*************
****************||*****************
****Fade(3)****lerk(1)****Onos(3)**** <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if marine's tree went
*****Armor 1
.............|
*****Armor 2
.............|
*****Armor 3
.............|
JP (2).<--->.HA (2)
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
when u have a fade who knows what they'r doing, then hopefully u have a rine who knows what they'r doing, they do balance out.
Amazing how reluctent you are to accepting a mirror image of your idea implimented for the marine team...
EDIT: Nevermind. I counted wrong.
Marine weapons need a nerfing. Especially the 220 damage shotty.
The sheer number of higher lifeforms is the problem. Most of the time a few good players stay skulk/lerk even though they know they will not get 100-3 stats. This makes the game kind of balanced. I will not take those 20 minute timelimit games into account. Aliens win 99% of those long games because marines are able to get more tech and aliens NEED some higher lifeforms which results in marines being overrun (if aliens don't get enough higher lifeforms marines sometimes manage to win).
This being said Fades only need a slight decrease in armor or health but something has to be done about the timelimit (eg. hard code it to 10 minutes)... or re-think the whole combat lifeform concept.
Mind however that if they didn't swarm, then it would be completely impossible to take the marines down...rines can win in CO as well, pretty easily...if they push forward with a mix of HA's and JP's then they can lay siege to the hive with relative ease...it's kinda the natural reaction of staying in base instead of pushing forward as a group which makes the marine team lose in the end...
realy if you are getting more than 50 kills in a 25 min game you realy need to find another server.
realy the fade is not the problem. one marine can kill a fade. ive seen it happen and ive done it my self. all it takes is a little luck and jumping and ducking all over the place.
the real counter to fade is team work. it dose not matter how many fades they have. all you need is good aim, resupply and someone welding you. you would be amazed at how far resupply and a welder can take you.
the best part is not only are you 100% nearly all the time but a friend with a welder on you makes it so you cannt be webed
its just too bad that most people are selfish and it ends up hurting the team.
also the problem is so many people get a jp. a jp is only good if they cannt kill a jp'er. if they can you are nothing more than a flying la marine. they can be good when you get to the hive but how are you going to get there through fades, learks and skulks?
you need armor (more is better). with a jp you have fire power but not the staying power to use it.
by the time there are lots of fades learks and onos, what your team has to work with should not be a lot of jp's. you should have ha hmg/sg (and dont forget a welder ffs)
Co is the devil... took my lovely team work away <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
that would be level 5?
@ little toe: You are talking about armor and welder and weapons, but how will u get them when u dont level because the fades are always killing u?
the best part is not only are you 100% nearly all the time but a friend with a welder on you makes it so you cannt be webed
its just too bad that most people are selfish and it ends up hurting the team.
you should have ha hmg/sg (and dont forget a welder ffs)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree with you, however (sorry Im talking public servers here only) there is no such thing as teamwork on combat, or at least very little.
The reason Im saying fade is overpowered, here Ill go through the whole process.
<b><u>1. Start -></u></b> This is the most difficult period for alien in combat, I wont go into skulk tactics in depth, but I use sneak/ambush tactics to make kills with as little deaths as possible - so not to give levels away to the marines, preventing them from getting SG's (hopefully) before you can reach fade. <i>(this period you can be forgiven for getting a killed a few times)</i>
<u><b>2. Get fade -></b></u> Use you first 3 levels to get fade. There might be one or two marines popping up with SG's now, this is a difficult time for your early fade, must be carful to target solo or paired marines only and blink out early, but you can usually make a couple of kills quickly due to lack of marine armour levels.<i> (If you keep an aye on your health and blink out in time you should get through this stage dying only a few times if at all)</i>
<b><u>3. Get carapace -></u></b> You are now able to survive alot longer in combat giving you the ability to take on slightly larger groups. SG's will not be so much of a threat. You still have to be careful not to get ambushed on your retreat. <i>(You should easily make enough kills for the next levels without many deaths from now on)</i>
<b><u>4. Clerety -></u></b> Gives you the ability to move quickly in combat, making you harder to hit and able to stay in combat longer. Blink improved.
<u><b>5. Regen -> </b></u> Now your even safer during retreat as your health is always increasing. Makes healing time at hive much shorter allowing you to blink back in to combat more frequently.
<u><b>6. Adrenaline -></b></u> Now you are able to blink back and forth from the hive very quickly. This makes it easier to takle marines with HA/HMG as they may need several runs to kill. Any marine without either a JP or HA by now will be very easy pray.
<u><b>7+ </b></u> From here on in your more or less unstoppable, so your last 2 levels are pretty trivial as to what you use them for.
And fade isnt overpowered?
Maybe if the marines have ultra teamwork and all go in one single HA train with welders and HMG, then maybe it might become difficult, but I have <u><b>never </b></u> seen marines do that in combat on a public.
Next upgrades would be hive 2 ability-regen-silence, then focus to finish it off. Celerity does make it harder to get hit, but I think it also makes you more prone to making mistakes when you're playing fade.. all you need to do is clip the edge of a coridoor or roof and you'll get mauled by a hmg/shotty.
Looking at the situation in combat, where aliens are able to "out-tech" the marines (at level 10), it almost seems as if it should be marines defending and aliens attacking, though of course this would make the start game extra hard for skulks. I get the impression the devs want combat to be short games, with not many players reaching level 10, in order to keep this balance.. but imo, combat is a lot more enjoyable in servers with a large mp_combattime (30 minutes or more) and wave respawns where you get some pretty epic battles and a lot of fragging <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I would rather see some minor alien nerfs, and bring back big games of combat than limiting it to short games where not everyone gets to tech up.
btw, to the people saying I should "play on better servers", <a href='http://www.mercior.com/images/hmmm.jpg' target='_blank'>i got the 100-3 score</a> on the YO-Combat server which is probably the most popular combat server in europe.
That said, more people need to use HA trains (with welders) in combat. Of course, that would mean teamwork and we all know that's a bad thing.
p.s. lerk>fade
Why is that? It's because in regular NS, if you kill a fade, it stays dead. In combat, it comes back very soon and you are halfway done reloading your HMG and it spawns in your face.
GG!
How to fix combat:
o Aliens respawn as skulk always
o You can only evolve once from skulk
o Dying with a larger lifeform gives you back their upgrades
oo Going gorge costs 1 point
oo Going lerk costs 2 points
oo Going fade costs 3 points
oo Going onos costs 4 points
o Evolution times are increased to 1/2 of what they are in regular NS
oo Gorge = 8 seconds
oo Lerk = 10 seconds
oo Fade = 12 seconds
oo Onos = 20 seconds
o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack
o Mirror damage = on (to discourage GL spam)
o One wave spawn occurs every 10 seconds
Marines will spawn in 1/3 at a whack too, but their punishment for dying is that they must hike it back to the hive, whereas aliens must only defend it.
Cut out blink for a little while longer, which bassically cuts out fades for a little while longer.
Whos gonna fade without blink?
Just a random idea...