Question About Nanites

Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
Are they natural or man made?
Nanites are the universal be all and end all for anything you want to do in NS. They are used for res, are used in med pack to heal, used to make armour, bullets, guns, they do everything. The thing i want to know is are they a naturally occuring resource? that needs to be resupplied every time a ship docks, or are they man made, and just continously manufactured onboard a ship. The main thrust of this questioning is to find out, can a ship ever run out of nanites?
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Comments

  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester Posts: 2,604 Advanced user
    This is a good one! I'd have to say, realistically, no, it can't. I imagine most ships would manufacture their own, but at some point you would run out of raw material to do so.

    So on the order of 50-100 years... Mind you I'm pulling all of this out of my ****.

    Jeff could give you a real answer, but I don't know if you can reach him...
    -Rob
  • RealmerRealmer Join Date: 2004-03-12 Member: 27296Members Posts: 110 Advanced user
    ask the nanites nerd.gif
  • Mr_HeadcrabMr_Headcrab Squee!~ Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9392Members, Constellation Posts: 2,223
    I would assume that Nanites would work like gas does now, you store a large amount onboard for power and when you're low, you get refilled by a station.
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  • NolSinklerNolSinkler On the Clorf Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26560Members, Constellation Posts: 1,604
    You can't describe this one with nanites, can you?
    image
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 8,207 mod
    edited July 2004
    They are manmade, of course. They are tiny robots, so small that they have to be measured in nanometers.
    I dont think they would run out, no... since they recycle all waste material.
    But there is of course the constant detoriation in vacuum, with atoms "boiling off into the void". So eventually, yes.
    (this is not counting if the ship ever docks)
  • spinviperspinviper Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16151Members Posts: 1,301
    nanites are NANOROBOTS. I guess that the ship makes its own nanites. And they are not just made up, 10 years from now NANOTECHNOLOGY will be a billion dollar industry.
  • DiscipleDisciple Join Date: 2003-10-28 Member: 22084Members, Constellation Posts: 73
    edited July 2004
    QUOTE (spinviper @ Jul 16 2004, 02:01 AM)
    nanites are NANOROBOTS. I guess that the ship makes its own nanites. And they are not just made up, 10 years from now NANOTECHNOLOGY will be a billion dollar industry.

    Personally, I think 10 years is a bit much.
    In Asia, they'll prolly have it within 5 years or so, while the western world will struggle with legal and moral problems


    And btw, if you're cruising around in space for such a vast time, you're bound to stumble upon a C-class asteroid, from which you can extract most material needed for the manufacture of nanites
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  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    the nanites on ships/bases are self replicating, which is why res is stored in nodes where they can not freely get to it. The res of a ship or base would have to occasionaly refilled, but theroticly, it could be refilled by anything, an asteroid, borken nanites, dead alien bodies, ect.
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  • DiscipleDisciple Join Date: 2003-10-28 Member: 22084Members, Constellation Posts: 73
    QUOTE (UnderDOG @ Jul 16 2004, 04:41 AM)
    the nanites on ships/bases are self replicating, which is why res is stored in nodes where they can not freely get to it. The res of a ship or base would have to occasionaly refilled, but theroticly, it could be refilled by anything, an asteroid, borken nanites, dead alien bodies, ect.

    Well... I don't think it's possible to create nanites from aliens, and from most asteroids, you won't be able to either.

    What I'm saying is that nanites are most probably based on metal or plastics, not coal, (which I suspect the aliens are... could be chisel as well, but that's not very probable seeing to it as the aliens are quite advanced) and therefore the raw materials needed for the manufacture of nanites cannot be extracted from dead aliens. (although they will be able to extract materials needed for the restocking of their fluids, adrenaline etc)
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  • john_sheujohn_sheu Join Date: 2004-02-26 Member: 26917Members Posts: 366
    QUOTE (spinviper @ Jul 16 2004, 01:01 AM)
    nanites are NANOROBOTS. I guess that the ship makes its own nanites. And they are not just made up, 10 years from now NANOTECHNOLOGY will be a billion dollar industry.

    Actually, nanotech has already become a billion-plus dollar industry. Just not the kind of self-replicating nanites you're thinking about; these days they're more used as structural materials.
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  • john_sheujohn_sheu Join Date: 2004-02-26 Member: 26917Members Posts: 366
    Plus, take a look at this quote from the Frontiersman's Manual:
    QUOTE
    Most ships or bases have carefully contained stores of "raw" nano-sludge, a mineral rich slop that can serve as the base material for any desired object. Nanotech assemblers are designed to accept this sludge, and this sludge only, as their fuel, and the building blocks for nano-construction. This helps limit the dangers of nanotech, and also allows the Trans-Govs to police its use (by controlling the nano-sludge supply). There are few greater crimes than the unsanctioned development or use of nanotech.
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  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Disciple @ Jul 16 2004, 09:10 AM)
    Well... I don't think it's possible to create nanites from aliens, and from most asteroids, you won't be able to either.

    What I'm saying is that nanites are most probably based on metal or plastics, not coal, (which I suspect the aliens are... could be chisel as well, but that's not very probable seeing to it as the aliens are quite advanced) and therefore the raw materials needed for the manufacture of nanites cannot be extracted from dead aliens. (although they will be able to extract materials needed for the restocking of their fluids, adrenaline etc)

    Since, because of thier size, nanites could work with individual atoms, they should be able to break down aliens into the Carbon, Hydrogen, Ext or whatever they are made of, and then biuld that back up into more nanites.
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 8,207 mod
    Yeah, but the bacterium gets there first, since the aliens are pretty much MADE of bacteria.
  • SilverwingSilverwing bulletsponge Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23395Members, Constellation Posts: 495 Fully active user
    So what Align? The Bacterium would be made of either carbon or silicon and both could be used in the manufacture of nanites and other stuff...

    Face it guys, nanites is the only answer you will ever need, in all eternity, amen.

    While it would be theoretically possible to run out of atoms aboard a ship, that would also mean running out of: dust, vermin (yes, Khara comes into this category), metal shavings from wear, meteorit impact-pieces (som DO get through, though they are microscopic or atomic in size) and it would also mean that never once, in a million years, did the ship stop to take on water and food or crewers. Never once did it come upon a suitable asteroid (like someone mentioned earlier).

    Im summing up here:

    Nanites are robots so small they are measured in nanometers, they are capable of manufacturing things from the atomic level up, thus creating much more efficient machines, flawless in every respect, much sharper knives, unbreakable rope, etc. All they need to do this is atoms. If you have enough carbon atoms onboard ship, your nanites could build you the Koh-I-Noor (sp?), IF you had the "blueprint", that is.

    Oh, I could go on and on...

    Silverwing
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  • DiscipleDisciple Join Date: 2003-10-28 Member: 22084Members, Constellation Posts: 73
    QUOTE (UnderDOG @ Jul 16 2004, 11:55 PM)
    Since, because of thier size, nanites could work with individual atoms, they should be able to break down aliens into the Carbon, Hydrogen, Ext or whatever they are made of, and then biuld that back up into more nanites.

    Either you didn't read my text or you didn't follow.

    Carbon, Hydrogen, Ext (what's ext?) and **** would't be a suiting building material of nanites
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  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    edited July 2004
    Oops, should have been ect.

    Why couldnt nanites be made from carbon and other atoms? Oil, plastics, fossile fuels of all types, and other things such as diamonds are all made of carbon and hydrogen. Other trace metals need would likely be found inside an alien corpse too.


    Align is right that most likely bactirium would most likely get to alien corpses and use them before nanites could.


    edit: seems we have stumbled onto while guns, bodies, and dead/destroyed buildings dissappear so fast.
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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
    edited July 2004
    No this doesn't explain the recyling of guns. Guns are recycled by the command network. Here's a quote from Six days in Sanjii - technical notes

    QUOTE
    Dropped weapons, like all litter and trash on government facilities and up-class stations, are recycled by the command network's dissembling nano's. The patterns of dissembled materials are normally stored in a buffer for a few hours, should they need to be recreated - that is, without nano-gridlock interfering. With gridlock, this basically means a dropped weapon, if it isn't picked up before being disassembled, is lost.


    This is why everything including corpses dissapears so quickly. The nano trash team cleans it up!!!
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    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester Posts: 2,604 Advanced user
    It does explain the recycling if you aren't fighting aliens. The nano-grid lock occurs when bacteria and nanos are vying for control of the area. Otherwise, the resources disassembled would be redeposited into the sludge banks.

    Not even nanobots are small enough to play with individual atoms, however. If they were, you could simply strip the electrons off a nucleus, adjust the number of neutrons and protons, add back some electrons, and make whatever you wanted from whatever you wanted. So if that were the case, you COULD make more nanobots from carbon.

    However, like i said, nano-meter sized bots are not sufficiently small to work with a single atom. And it's not possible for them to be.
    -Rob
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
    Ah, but rob, this is 200 years from now. Why would they not have developed the ability to work with single atoms by then? and this is also fiction, so technically we can make anything happen.

    The idea behing this question was two-fold, one to get the answer i needed for my story, secondly, to find out how complete the nano-history is. Perhaps someone could write a nano-history for us, along the lines of gates, moon and stars, to show the development of nano-tech from today to c.2200?

    That would give us a solid foundation to use for our stories.
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    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester Posts: 2,604 Advanced user
    edited July 2004
    Well, think about it. In order for a nanite to work on an atom, it would have to be relatively the same size. Even if we assume a body 5-10 atoms big could single out an individual atom and play with it, there's no possible way you could make a working robot out of 5-10 atoms. It's just simply impossible. The AI in said nanite alone would take several billion atoms to store, let alone use.
    -Rob
  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    edited July 2004
    We can already work with individual atoms, we cant just take protons or electrons away because it is a very complex process, and tends to either require or produce and a large amout of energy.

    The average size of an atom is around 130 picometers, so about .13 nano meters, and Nanotechnology deals with experimentation with objects that have dimensions of less than about 1,000 nanometers.

    Idivudual atoms could probably used to biuld things out of, but the bots wouldnt be able to actual change the properties of the atoms.
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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
    So what you are saying is that there is no reason for us not to be able to experiment and use individual atoms, but there would be no-way to work with split atoms, or indeed to split them. So no electron/neutron manipulation, but would we be able to break down a CO2 atom into one carbon and two oxygen?
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    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    Well, at the moment we can break down molocules of water (H2O) into hydrogen and O2, submarines use it to produce air. Electron/neutron manipluations is also possible today. Electron is much more simple to do, and occors very often in life, creation of Ions of example. Nuclear manipluation is much harder, but is still possible. Radioactive decay is an example of this, as well as nuclear power. If this would be possible for nanites in future I cannot say.
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  • RatfireRatfire Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members Posts: 124
    Nanites are man-made, the NS team already gave a description of how nano-tech works.
    Official Nanotech Description

    Resources vents hold the base material that nanite construction converts into replicating and fixed nanites which are used to make buildings, weapons, healthpacks, etc.


    Ratfire
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  • UnderDOGUnderDOG Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15221Members Posts: 1,349 Fully active user
    right, we all can pretty much agree on that, we are debating what the nanites can break down and use other than thier specificly designed nano-res.
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  • RatfireRatfire Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members Posts: 124
    From what I understand from the tech description written by the NS team. The nano-sludge that comes out of the res nodes can be used across the board because it is a basic material component rather than a nanite pool.
    Individual nanites form the one of two function nanite (replicating and fixed) items and when the composite item is "recycled" the nanites from the replicating section are "absorbed" into the command network system where individual replicating nanites are stored for later use, and individual fixed nanites break down and are destroyed.


    Ratfire
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