Quark Leak Finding

teh_fatts

<div class="IPBDescription">super-frustrating... help!</div> Hey, its me again... so ive piced together most of my first ready room, through trial and error, forum searching, and FAQ finding (though they sometimes seem to be buried!) but ive run across a problem. I have most of the room constructed and "snapped to" the grid (grid scale of 4 units) and can't visually or logically find any leaks (well, obvious ones anyway). Im sure i have a few lurking around in odd places, since ive tried a few things proboably over my n00bish head (a rounded corner or two, for example, and an elevator im considering changing from func_door to func_rotplat for kicks), but I am utterly at a loss of how to find them. QuArKs built-in leak finder keeps pointing me at the nearest func_wall, and yes i know that they dont block VIS so you cant have them touching the outside. I have a lot of func_walls (well, one big one with many brushes, really) since i have a lot of catwalks that need transperancy. If I cover the nearest one up with a regular brush, it just heads for the next one. So, abandoning that idea i tried to use the pointfile instead. the suggested method is to load it into the map and follow it until it goes through the wall.... and here is my real problem. QuArK displays the line above ALL textures in either OpenGL or in Software 3D mode. While in the level, i can still see the line when its outside the level. Thus, I dont have the slightest clue where the leak is. Can anyone help me with this, or am I (sigh) finally going to have to install hammer? (and proboably ruin my map in the process since i doubt hammer reads ucompiled quark maps and i would have to compile it thus splitting up my pretty polygons... and say goodbye to my Diggers! ugh...)

Enceladus

have you tried loding the map in NS and doing Pointfile there?

Wolv

QuArK's build in leak finder is quite buggy and shouldn't be used for a level more complex then a hollow box.
You can also load the pointfile while running NS, maybe it'll work better for you.
If in QuArK the pointfile is too complex, I find it useful to select a group of brushes where I roughly see the line going from outside the level to inside the level, open the small 3D window (default key <i>5</i> I think) and rotate that to get a better look at things.
Also, there are many other methods to find leaks, I'm sure they are mentioned in a FAQ at this forum.

Hammer actually should be able to open up QuArK's exported .map files, but doesn't do so perfectly since Hammer doesn't support advanced features like floating point coordinates and texture skewing. And of course you'll loose all your grouping information, duplicators and diggers.
About those diggers, you <i>do </i> realise that in the exported map they <i>do</i> cutup the polys? The clean representation is only there in the editor. Just a thing to keep in mind when using a 27 sided cylinder as a digger. To see what harm a digger really does, open the exported .map file.

teh_fatts

yes i was aware of that fact, from flying around in Quark's OpenGL mode and noting the slight lines that develops from far enough away (all my untextured wallas are white, so i can look for that stuff). As a matter of fact i har a rather complicated setup at one point that was producing... well i dont know how to describe it. it was exactly like a leak... except it was not a leak. i had a huge box drawn around the level. but it was still doing that funky thing that it does if one "spectates" and view areas outside the hull, which i assume a leak does as well. Anyway, i tried loading the pointfile... and... er... im on a laptop. I can get HL to run for maybe 80 seconds on 640 by 480 in software mode... and then total lockup. I havent tried 640 x 480 in OpenGL mode yet, but as we all know most laptops have horrible OpenGL support (and yes, ive tried many many different custom drivers, and even hacks to use desktop drivers instead) so i doubt it would improve. But then, I suppose if hammer can read my .maps, i could just use it for leak finding, and stick to QuArK for the actual world-building. I'm beginning to understand why mapping is as small a community as it is... but yet, Ive also discovered its addictive... hahaha

Wolv

There really isn't anything Hammer does better then QuArK at finding leaks, so using it for that purpose isn't the answer to your problem.
For more information on leaks, try resource such as <a href='http://www.karljones.com/halflife/leaks.asp' target='_blank'>THE HANDY VANDAL'S ALMANAC</a>, <a href='http://www.egir.dk/index.php?page=vhe_leak.php' target='_blank'>egir</a>, <a href='http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=leaks' target='_blank'>VERC</a> or whatever other random link Google may give you.

teh_fatts

hey i tried hammer, but didnt get much out of it other than pointfile lines going right through the middle of solid objects:

<a href='http://img73.<font color="white">Photobucket is being filtered thanks to a recent rager attack. Sorry for all inconveniences.</color>v222/Gnikrul/leakfind003.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img73.<font color="white">Photobucket is being filtered thanks to a recent rager attack. Sorry for all inconveniences.</color>v222/G...leakfind003.jpg</a>

<a href='http://img73.<font color="white">Photobucket is being filtered thanks to a recent rager attack. Sorry for all inconveniences.</color>v222/Gnikrul/leakfind001.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img73.<font color="white">Photobucket is being filtered thanks to a recent rager attack. Sorry for all inconveniences.</color>v222/G...leakfind001.jpg</a>

(sorry for links instead of direclty posting... photobucket is being dumb again

... which, if i understand the pointfile correctly, makes no sense at all. Wolv, i had read those links already (i try to research before posting, as i know how irritating it is when peopel dont) and since i cant get HL to run with all those system-res eating particles, then they arent that helpful (though i have yet to try the giant-box-with-unusual-light strategem.) Ive checked again and again and i dont have any point enteties outside the world. I did find a few alternate suggestions in <a href='http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&b=9&t=458,1058483904,22529&s=0&id=503189#12' target='_blank'>this forum</a> that i havent seen anywhere else, and this one sounds promising:

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> full vis
Place a box around your level, doesn't really matter which texture as long as it's dimensions (the texture's) is something around 1x1. Now run a full vis (umm vis -full) and walk around the level with "wireframe 2" toggled on.
At some point you'll notice you'll be able to see the lines of the box. This is not exactly where the leak is but you've entered a vis-leaf (?) from where it's possible to "see" the leak. move around in that area until the box stops showing. by moving back and forth (triangulating) from the problem area you'll be able to know what is the problem area and then be able to use other methods to look more closely to where exactly the leak must be (cordoning the area and use the light method for instance) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

and, since ill have a big box around it anyway, i might as well go ahead and try the bright light gig too...

teh_fatts

hey, and once i find the general area of my leak, i could keep breaking up the vis-leaves with hint brushes to get more specific, if its needed...

teh_fatts

PRAISE THE LORD, I FOUND IT!

*sigh* my first successful leakhunt. *pinnochio vioce* I'm a real boy... er, mapper... now! */pinnochio vioce*

anyway, the way i found it was by moving then entity that was the origin of the point-path around, and repeatedly attempting to follow it. on about the fourth or fifth position it went almost straight for the hole. Bada-bing. and of course, it wasnt anywhere near where i thought i was, hahaha. BTW I stumbled onto a little program that is supposed to take .rmf maps, look at the pointfile, locate the leak, and put a point entity over where it thinks it is (so you just tell it to use an entity that doesnt really exist like, oh say func_ingleak so you can find it easily) or maybe a brush, I dont know. I didnt get around to testing it but you can find it here: <a href='http://saida.lava.nu/' target='_blank'>http://saida.lava.nu/</a> its under windows/other, and its all the way at the bottom. Allright, I'm done spamming your boards now, I'll shut up until I have something useful to say. *chuckle*