Article For Monse

NiteowlNiteowl Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">and others interested in MS</div> <a href='http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html' target='_blank'>http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html</a>

very interesting article detailing the large movements and forces that may affect that ever so large company in redmond.

Comments

  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    Quite an interesting article there. I didn't even notice this before, but now that I think about it, there are a lot more web apps popping up.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Fascinating article. I do want to point out though that in my professional career in IT of 9 years, every single solitary year was supposed to be 'the takeover of the world by web apps' and 'the end of Windows', and every single year it has not happened. Mainly for the good reasons listed in this article, but perhaps not weighted too heavily by the author: web apps suck. Every company I've worked for has tried to make web apps not suck and be as productive as client-server apps, and they all failed. Time after time, they eventually chucked it and restarted their app as client-server, or when it came to upgrade went with a different product (if it was a 3rd party app). When they wanted to get serious about not installing apps and having easier app management, they got Terminal Servers and/or Citrix. Really, they only kept a few web apps around for external customer usage, but that's usually about 1% of the apps any big place has, if not fewer.

    This might need to go to Discussion at some point. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DraconisDraconis Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13722Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Agreed with Monse; pure web based programs arent the future: interactivity, file IO, latency, security of network protocols is all a burden to it. And especially when we look at WAP protocols that cant even handle properly a token-ring.

    Otherwise an interesting article. Very nice find Niteowl!
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    I bet microsoft would make good shaved ice...

    That article is good one, so good it got me off task at work, I will post more on my thoughts later,
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited June 2004
    I disagree (and its not just cause my job is web development :P) with the whole "web apps are useless" idea. Web apps do have their place. It would be silly for something like our site at work to be a client/server app, especially considering a large part of our user base uses Macs and a few use Linux. Much easier to go cross platform when its all web based.

    Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying there will or should be any kind of big move over. It would be retarted to have to use a web app for a word processor or a spreadsheet program, but there are some things that web sites could do as good as or better than a small client/server app.

    Online banking is a great example: My bank used to have an old school custom made program you dialed into and everything, but it was pretty crappy. Now that's gone away and they have a rather spiffy website. I don't have to worry about reinstalling crap and I can check my balance from anywhere, so I'd definately say that's an improvement over the old version.

    An example of a bad web app: Our company recently switched accounting packages from some crappy software to a crappy web app. It was pretty impressive at first being that you could drag and drop and do all kinds of event driven crap you would only expect from a traditional app, but it had some major problems that made it really suck. We ditched it and are now using some third thing that I don't know or care about since that's not my problem anyway.


    p.s.
    <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon12.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> PHP
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Really, they only kept a few web apps around for external customer usage, but that's usually about 1% of the apps any big place has, if not fewer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Here I quote myself, and hopefully Doom reads my whole reply next time. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Don't you remember that my wife works on online banking apps?
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    Pwned again. :o

    No, I don't recall that being mentioned. And I had to run off to class so I didnt have time to read everybody's entire reply.

    Eep. :o

    p.p.s.

    <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon12.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> PHP
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    Well...

    I <i>can</i> imagine web-apps taking off. Bandwidth and security technologies keep improving, and I'm sure there will come a point when it's viable. I don't know if that will herald the death of the desktop, and I have my doubts (trying to predict the death of <i>anything</i> in the computer world is always fraught with difficulty. Well, perhaps not <i>predicting</i> stuff, but certainly <i>being right</i> about what you're predicting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).

    [rant]What annoys me about the whole issue is that, as far as I can tell, incompatabilities and importabilities mostly arrise from people disregarding the standards and\or h4x0ring their way around. Then there's all these instances of saying that OO failed to deliver on its promises of being a holy grail, with the previous sentence mentioning a supposed deficiency of OO when in fact OO principles were violated... It's hard to make standards work when people ignore them. And say what you like about polymorphism and inheritance, but encapsulation is God.[/rant]
  • littlewildlittlewild Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9467Members
    There simply isn't enough demand for Web Apps. CIOs will want to know what kind of returns to expect when they make the decision to migrate legacy desktop apps en mass to web apps.

    It is not about compatibility but rather it is about practicality. Why do you want to abandon your investment in the workstations and run all the apps from a centralized server? Having a web app version of MS Word is spiffy, but why do that when you have already paid through your nose for MS Office?
  • CreepieCreepie Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13734Members
    Interesting comment about the Venture Capitalists not wanting to invest in firms developing generic apps because they fear MS may decide they want to develop a version themselves ...
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Jun 18 2004, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jun 18 2004, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I <i>can</i> imagine web-apps taking off. Bandwidth and security technologies keep improving, and I'm sure there will come a point when it's viable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This has a good point in it, except for some often little known realities:

    Bandwidth has, <i>in the US</i>, often become much more available and inexpensive. However, in Europe and especially the mideast/asia, it is still very very precious. When you work on projects outside the country, you quickly find that the American thought of a 'high-bandwidth' link starts at the T-1/3 mark, whereas in Europe it's often 128K. In the mideast it is even worse, and considerably less reliable. And even in the US it's still very low generally when you are talking about site links between remote offices and operations centers/HQ's. At the previous 3 banks I have done work for, they thought nothing of having a T-3 internet link, and also nothing of having 64K links to all their bank branches. At NCF Corp, they have 600 bank branches linked by <b>16K frame relay cononections</b>. Which they ran webmail and a web loan application over from the main offices, and kept the lines flooded basically 8 hours a day. Completely ridiculous, ran like crap, caused tons of issues, and they had no way to fix it without spending a millions and millions in upgrades and then millions more in increased annual line fees. They scrapped all the web apps (except mail) and went back to the client-server drawing board after fighting it for a year. To their credit, they were lied to by their Novell vendor that made silly promises about using their local netware servers to cache http, which of course never worked.

    I think the world's network infrastructure needs another solid 10 years before making web apps across the board truly feasible. Both internally and externally to other networks.
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