Weld Points
RyoOhki
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What can they do, and why I love them</div> This is sort of an open letter to the excellent mappers who design the immersive and enjoyable NS maps.
I am openly and unashamedly in love with weld points. The ability to modify a map opens up huge strategic possibilities and really helps with the immesion aspect of the game. You can feel the anger and screams of an alien side when "Warning, emergancy phase gates have been activated" sounds across the server, or when twin orbital lasers blast open a passageway to Satellite Communications. Those moments really make me feel like I have accomplished something for the team.
That's why I'd love to see weld points play a larger role in maps and gameplay. I remember Flayra ages ago in an interview say that he was interested in making all doors and elevators weldale, so the marines could seal off certain areas (assumedly the aliens could break through). Has anything more come of this? The examples I gave above represent the two most interactive and prominant examples of weld points that I can think of, and producing more weld points that have the same kind of "feel" as them would be great.
Which brings me to a question: just what can weld points do? What are their limitations? Could it be possible to design a map that had an old, shattered, abandoned TSA base somewhere with structures that could be welded back to functionality? Could a res node be rendered unfunctional until a weld point somewhere was activated? (I'm thinking that a marine start could be a double res node, but one is blasted and inactive until a weld point in a hive location is welded) Could a tunnel filled with water leading to a hive be pumped dry with a weld point? Could a map have scattered across it aound 5 or 6 weld points, that once all welded would activate an on board security system that generated self-powered turrets in certain locations?
If mappers could give us information on the limitations of weld points, then we can through this thread open to suggestions about what we would like to see weld points do.
Your thoughts please.
I am openly and unashamedly in love with weld points. The ability to modify a map opens up huge strategic possibilities and really helps with the immesion aspect of the game. You can feel the anger and screams of an alien side when "Warning, emergancy phase gates have been activated" sounds across the server, or when twin orbital lasers blast open a passageway to Satellite Communications. Those moments really make me feel like I have accomplished something for the team.
That's why I'd love to see weld points play a larger role in maps and gameplay. I remember Flayra ages ago in an interview say that he was interested in making all doors and elevators weldale, so the marines could seal off certain areas (assumedly the aliens could break through). Has anything more come of this? The examples I gave above represent the two most interactive and prominant examples of weld points that I can think of, and producing more weld points that have the same kind of "feel" as them would be great.
Which brings me to a question: just what can weld points do? What are their limitations? Could it be possible to design a map that had an old, shattered, abandoned TSA base somewhere with structures that could be welded back to functionality? Could a res node be rendered unfunctional until a weld point somewhere was activated? (I'm thinking that a marine start could be a double res node, but one is blasted and inactive until a weld point in a hive location is welded) Could a tunnel filled with water leading to a hive be pumped dry with a weld point? Could a map have scattered across it aound 5 or 6 weld points, that once all welded would activate an on board security system that generated self-powered turrets in certain locations?
If mappers could give us information on the limitations of weld points, then we can through this thread open to suggestions about what we would like to see weld points do.
Your thoughts please.
Comments
You could make unbuilt structures, but they would just be built with the use of E, and aliens could destroy them as normal. There wouldn't be a use for the welder to build these.
The res node idea doesn't really work. It has been done before, but then you could still drop an RT, it was just that there was a trigger_hurt there that would destroy it until it's welded.
The tunnel filled with water has been done in ns_agora.
Self-powered turrets would not work, since they require an AI.
Basically, anything that can be triggered can be made weldable. Like, if you want, you can make a weldable that when welded triggers a bunch of explosions, or you could make it trigger a laser, or make it trigger some water, or perhaps make a section of the floor fall, etc.
all entities that can be "modified" ingame represent the possible plus of fun a map can have.
the easiest way to achieve this is a simple door. it blocks the range of fire for the marines and force them to enter the close combat distance.
a more complex way to make the player feel like he can actually manipulate the environment, are weldable points.
to say something first: the possibilities are endless. THEORETICALLY.
to place some weldable spots in a map that open/close some doors is really simple so anyone can do that after some minutes of playing around with the entities.
complex systems need more work and finally they will lower the number of entities that can be used freely.
if you create a map where most doors are weldable:
1. lot of work. you will have to think about how much is to much.
2. balance. because you cant simply put a door in a corridor tha can be sealed of an d thats it. aliens should have some alternae routes, than you have to think about where/how to place this routes. the layout will be the toughest part of such map.
but you are right, some more maps with these entities would be nice. they would feel more "real", not just some corridors leading "straight" to any location.
edit: but I remember the old ns.fgd where you had been able to drop items and monsters from halflife. one thing that could be used in a interesting new way were the autoturrets.
imagine: the marines reconquer and outpost/ship/whatever but cant proceed to the hive because the defense systems are still working, s the turrets woud shot ANY creature. you have to separate the energy from this turrets to go on. used it once, it was quite funny and best thing of all: it really worked. only a new model had been nice to avoid the "recycle" touch of hl entities.
The main problem I see with weldables is that only marines can use them. This means that for a map to be balanced it needs to be biased towards the aliens at the start of the game and progress towards balance as all the weldables were welded. I don't really like the thought of compulsary welding to make a game winnable by marines.
--Scythe--
There's nothing stopping a programmer from recoding the doors in Half-Life so that they can do this, but I doubt Flayra is going to add this to NS at this stage of development.
1. doors that open via "trigger_multiple" and are meant to close after a while. since you can also activate the trigger with entities, maybe a invisible "door" could do the job. so if you weld a button or anything like this, this invisble door will "open" INTO the trigger, so the maindoor wont close any more.
2. water: there are some mapper that dont know thatwater can be used like doors, to create the effect of "floading" a area is really simple. and if used right it could be really cool.
3. "after-welding-action". some alternations. to weld a button doesnt simply open a door. maybe it activates a crane that runs into a closed door. explosion, debris, sparks. may take some more entities but this could turn ot into the "WOW! you really rock!"-effect <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
4. multible short weldactions. a path that is only passable for marines if multible targets are weldered. this actions take up to 5 seconds. maybe some kind of "we have to repair the floorplates above this pipeline or you have to take a longer, alternate route to reach a important spot. this would feel more like "we are achieving the goal, bit by bit".
5. combined welding. you could place a door that opens when both "lockbolts" are destroyed, the powerline is repaired and the activation button is welded back to functionality.
6. support welding. some destroyed, out of place or missing objects can be welded back to its functional state. maybe some additiv cover for marines, moving a crane that places a missing part of the path back where it belongs, maybe a dropship dropping anything important.
like I said, rough ideas that came into my mind. the problem is that complex weld-actions needed to be added in the LAYOUT <u>before</u> starting with the map.