SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
I like the idea about reincarnation <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Face it: People want the better upgrades so the Onos can take 200 HMG's at the same time and still live, and still manage to take out the entire marine team after taking all that damage, and then take out the base and then win the game for everyone all by himself. You know what? Forget it. I am so f***ing sick and tired of hearing "ONOS NEEDS MORE BEEF!" because no, it doesnt. Its already set up that even if two marines go against it, they die, even 3. We have 7 minute Onos's now because yes, it happens quite a bit since we have the skulks who dont transform anymore and just keep fighting until they reach a designated resource limit.
If you guys cant change the Onos health to 1000 and 2000 armor, you want to replace upgrades for the entire alien team instead. Most of the points shown in this topic are going on like "Well, if we had this, being an Onos would..."
No one uses redemption in CO. Why would you, its a game where you will always come back as the same life form every time, meaning that there is no waste of res ever.
Frankly Redemption was meant as a gamble, and sometimes you win, sometimes you dont. This is very useful for when you dont have too much health, but just enough to take out that little outpost. Redemption almost always works around turrets, the little bee-stings you feel as you wail on the turret factory. This method would be able to jack up 3 lives for an alien, and this notion goes ESPECIALLY for the people want want more Onos's power. This would be, in the case of 3 hives, the equivilent of taking on 3 onos's, and I dont see many marines living after that. This is just another excuse to make aliens more powerful, instead of downgrading the marines.
An onos that can take on no more than 3 vanilla marines needs beefing. Depending on situation the current onos CAN take them on(with stomp), but it should be pretty much 100% certain - unless the onos attacks from down an exceptionally long hallway. Unless we're talking about combat, but I'd rather have a fun&balanced classic game.
It is balanced. 3 vanilla marines arent anything when you think abotu the Onos. Hell, it could probably take 5 vanilla marines. No upgrades and only LMG means marines are going to get raped in the ****. But seriously, this should be about benifit for the ALIENS, not a benifit for the Onos.
5 vanilla marines kick the crap out of the Onos if he doesn't turn tail and run, assuming they have upgrades of course. And if they don't have upgrades then let's say the onos doesn't have upgrades either and they'll still kick the crap out of him. Two LA/HMGs will slaughter an onos if they stand uphill or on a higher elevation. Hell, one HMG is all it takes to hold an onos off of marine spawn if he has a good vantage point(eclipse, tanith, nothing, nancy, veil) or just has a lot of structures to hide behind. Onoses are pitifully ineffective at base breaking when the marines are actually trying to hold it. Since Onoses are the only species that redemption even functions for, I'd say they're a very valid part of this debate.
The way redemption currently works, there's simply no way it can be balanced for all species. If it works even a little bit for skulks it will make Onoses and Fades practically invincible, which even if that isn't overpowered(massive downtime) is not fun at all for the marines. And if it's a "gamble" for Onoses then it's not even worth mentioning for Fades or lower. I don't want to sacrifice the crucial D upgrades for a less than 50/50 chance of surviving a near-death experience which probably wouldn't have happened in the first place if you had regen or cara, and neither do the vast majority of other aliens from the looks of it. If lower life forms are taking redemption on a regular basis, I've never noticed since I almost never see it work.
Redemption, as it works right now, is impossible to balance. The HP differences are just too huge, and if it was actually reliable it would only serve to irritate the marines. It needs to be reworked or replaced. Reincarnation sounds like a good place to start to me, though it needs a little work(marines who notice that the Onos doesn't have regen will probably camp his corpse).
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
yes, this would be the disadvantage about <b>reincarnation</b> for higher lifeforms. But it still would be useful for lower lifeforms, such like lerks or skulks (would fit best for skulks)
Onoses are not supposed to life twice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I cant tell you how many times an Onos redemed after we thought we killed it. It is ESPECIALLY useful when running away, that way they can only take a certain amount of pot shots at you as you turn tail and run, lowering your health slower.
My idea is the Materialize upgrade (bad name, but I don't have time). What it does is it heals you fully once you return to the hive. It does have a cooldown, just like redemption, so it won't be overpowered. So if you are hurt you need to walk to the hive and presto good as new...
Comments
If you guys cant change the Onos health to 1000 and 2000 armor, you want to replace upgrades for the entire alien team instead. Most of the points shown in this topic are going on like "Well, if we had this, being an Onos would..."
No one uses redemption in CO. Why would you, its a game where you will always come back as the same life form every time, meaning that there is no waste of res ever.
Frankly Redemption was meant as a gamble, and sometimes you win, sometimes you dont. This is very useful for when you dont have too much health, but just enough to take out that little outpost. Redemption almost always works around turrets, the little bee-stings you feel as you wail on the turret factory. This method would be able to jack up 3 lives for an alien, and this notion goes ESPECIALLY for the people want want more Onos's power. This would be, in the case of 3 hives, the equivilent of taking on 3 onos's, and I dont see many marines living after that. This is just another excuse to make aliens more powerful, instead of downgrading the marines.
Unless we're talking about combat, but I'd rather have a fun&balanced classic game.
The way redemption currently works, there's simply no way it can be balanced for all species. If it works even a little bit for skulks it will make Onoses and Fades practically invincible, which even if that isn't overpowered(massive downtime) is not fun at all for the marines. And if it's a "gamble" for Onoses then it's not even worth mentioning for Fades or lower. I don't want to sacrifice the crucial D upgrades for a less than 50/50 chance of surviving a near-death experience which probably wouldn't have happened in the first place if you had regen or cara, and neither do the vast majority of other aliens from the looks of it. If lower life forms are taking redemption on a regular basis, I've never noticed since I almost never see it work.
Redemption, as it works right now, is impossible to balance. The HP differences are just too huge, and if it was actually reliable it would only serve to irritate the marines. It needs to be reworked or replaced. Reincarnation sounds like a good place to start to me, though it needs a little work(marines who notice that the Onos doesn't have regen will probably camp his corpse).
Onoses are not supposed to life twice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We'll call it 'The Fart'.