I view the fade as I view a marine...... it all depends on what he's packing.
Fades fit several tasks, from base storming to ninja assassin. I think its unfair to lump it into any one category since it fundamentally restricts what should be one of the alien strengths - adaptability.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Err, guys, they are supposed to be the "Hit and Run" guys. Go in, kick the crap outta things, get out. Base breaking shouldn't be their job I'm sure, but they aren't stealth by any means.
I always thought fades should turn slightly invisible when they "blink". What I mean is the player can hold down the fire button. The fade should turn invisible, then they can move freely about the map at a increased speed as long as the fire button is held. Maybe they can walk through walls too, but that would probably make them way unbalanced. Lower health costs anyway. But what you would have is a unit that could appear in front of marines, then vanish in the blink of an eye.
Hold blink down...you go invisible...you make no sound, and then when you let up or run out of juice you appear....along with increasing the fades speed...
I think I would be back to crapping myself in NS....OMG FADE!!!!! where'd it go?
Of course you would have to have Observatory Negate the effect.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-(KCSA) Robert Paulson+Jun 4 2004, 03:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((KCSA) Robert Paulson @ Jun 4 2004, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So you are saying....
Hold blink down...you go invisible...you make no sound, and then when you let up or run out of juice you appear....along with increasing the fades speed...
I think I would be back to crapping myself in NS....OMG FADE!!!!! where'd it go?
Of course you would have to have Observatory Negate the effect.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea that pretty much sums it up. It would have to be restricted to a certian extent. I mean really all I want if the fade to turn invisible when it blinks. Because to me the fade looks really really dumb when it blinks around right now.
The wall-passing-through wouldn't work tho, since most walls on NS maps lead to the void. However, the invisible thing is sweeeet. Its already enough fun to cloak and aim at the door into MS on maps like Eclipse and as soon as a marine opens it... blinkage. I think I almost gave one guy a heart attack once doing that.
Yeah that uber-cloak would be sweet. There'd have to be some kind of warning that a fade was about to appear for balance's sake however. Maybe a whoosh noise or something. I can just see people suddenly appearing behind a marine, killing him, vanishing (all with about 1.5 seconds) and appearing on a beam in the other corner of the room.
Balance would definately be an issue, but if an obs made the fade act like normal (current normal that is, just high speed movement for blink) that'd help. The cloaking would also not make adren fades unkillable, as currently in order to fly, they just blink until adren runs out, and for a split second they're not blinking while it recharges enough to continue. With the invisi-fade, they'd be visible for this split second, so you'd see a flickering fade moving around, instead of a invisible "bladed Messiah". You'd still have a target to shoot at, instead of merely hearing a whooshing noise and then getting diced into bite sized pieces.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 4 2004, 01:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 4 2004, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Jean Luc Picard+Jun 3 2004, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jean Luc Picard @ Jun 3 2004, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree.. fades = NINJAS.. not the fuggin base breakers they are...
LOW HP, high AP creatures (50HP/200AP) with a POWERFUL, SLOW attack (swipe should be a 6 point swipe... like you do with a Rapier but in this case the 2 claws make 3 swipes each, over the course of 1/2 second for the entire attack but dealing 400 dmg, with a once every 3 seconds rate of fire)
Makes sense to me... weak if you see it coming, OMG WTH HAPPENED if you ain't guarding your **** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you're saying a fade that can take 2 shotgun blasts but can take out a HA in one attack is something you want to have flying around the map? Imagine what will happen if you get focus. You dont even need to get both swipes in. You can swipe and hit one marine with each of the 3 swipes in under 1 second and you will have 3 dead marines. Then you walk into base and just sit on the IP killing marines because they can even respond. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Basicly... yes
Spawn campers should be banned... they are on mah server! *which is now UP BTW*
Anywho, I'd like to see that actualy, the star of david I found it's called by some people (how origional) because the slash pattern forms a star!
Imagine a fade doing that with it's claws! THAT would be an awsome attack! Just Swish swish swish swish swish STAB!
meh, i think it'd be more reluctant to ban anyone that complains about spawncamping aliens in classic, than the camper himself. if an alien can get to a position where the ip's can be camped, good for him, and good for the team. marines have plenty of means to stop that.
about fades.... yeah, that blink making you invisible is pretty cool.
Get old blink back, but fix it so that it teleports you X units away from what you targeted, so you cant like get stuck in a computer or soem decorative pipes or soemthing. Or at least make it so it actually TELEPORTS, the reason you couldnt get out of being stuck was because the fade did just move insanley fast in the specified direction, if it was an actual teleport then it would be able to get out again. The new blink gets me stuck on doors and stuff more than the old one. Cant wait for HL2, imagine predator style cloaking *drools*
If a guy is spawncamping, odds are that player is just trying to hold the rines off/aliens off untill they get some reinforcements.
Back on topic..
But who knows? Maybe a name change is in order as I'm seeing more and more... interesting upgrade choices, thinking they're playing the game in character or something (I.E. Redempt, cloaking, scilence.) Keep in mind, if all the alines could do was hide and ambush with ALL their units up untill the onos, they'd get destroyed. 50 res for a big fat scary skulk wouldn't be worth it, and most common ambush spots get old after a while.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 5 2004, 09:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 5 2004, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But who knows? Maybe a name change is in order as I'm seeing more and more... interesting upgrade choices, thinking they're playing the game in character or something (I.E. Redempt, cloaking, scilence.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe a name change is needed, considering what the word 'fade' implies.
Just to recap what's been discussed here:
There seems to be three types of fades that people have in mind:
- The one that's an all-purpose fade, moreorless one that can deal more damage and take a bit more damage, and overall being able to withstand mid-upgraded marines.
- One that's a hit-and-run fade, zoom in and zoom out.
- And the last is a cloak/sneaky fade that's able sneak around and take out stranglers.
There's also discussion about the blinkage, ranging from old 1.0X blink to holding down a button while moving across the map (semi-cloak) fast.
So let's move the discussion in a different direction with this question:
<b>Which of these fades would be the most fun to play? (If you have another type of fade, go ahead and explain it) Why?</b>
Please, be considerate about fun with other people (e.g. It maybe 'fun' to spawn devour as onos in MS with 1 IP left).
-----------------
I'll start. I consider cloak-fades fun since it adds to the atmosphere trying to find that fade. I think it's a bit better than fades that currently zoom in, hits, and zooms out with shotties and other marine weapons trying to kill it.
Anyway, I prefer the last type. The cloaky-sneaky-OMG WHERE'D IT GO! fade. This blink is just powerful, too powerful, and not fun to play against. And I know I personally get bored pwning rines over and over again doing the same damn blink-swipe-meta-blink-swipe-meta....it gets boring damn it! I have a lot more fun inducing heart attacks with a divebombing lerk.
I just made my stuff shorter Skyhigh, thats all...
Anyway, I love that idea. Although giving it more life then the Lerk, somewhere around 110 HP and 100 armor, and a powerful swipe attack that just drains a sh!tload of energy...
hmm....slow attack...a lot of damage....sounds like FOCUS to me....most of you people are just suggesting that you add a perm. focus on both the lerk and fade...
In my opinion, the fades should be the soldier of the alien force. the bread and butter unit. Take starcraft for example. Terran had their main soldeir as the marine. Aliens should have a unit like that. Zerg had zerglings but it was hdyras that was the backbone of a force or army. 1.04 fade was perfect for this except its overpowered acid rocket, and messed up blink
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And I know I personally get bored pwning rines over and over again doing the same damn blink-swipe-meta-blink-swipe-meta....it gets boring damn it!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't use meta <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Problem solved *g*
I would prefer a sneaky cloak teleport style blink but what about game balance? Marines would win <b>every</b> combat match with weakened fades (and I don't think classic would be any better). I never understood why fade health was increased at one point in the beta. 50 or even 100 less health would still be fine (speaking about combat).
Anyway I would like to see all alien lifeforms more suitable for stealth attacks. The whole fun in this game was the dark maps (now they are all bright), sneaky skulks and the terror. Playing marine was fun. Sometimes you nearly got a heart attack because those small creatures jumped around a corner or in your face from above. Marines did always stick together. Rambos couldn't do much. They were easy prey because skulks were much stronger in close combat.
Nevermind. The good old times are like... once upon a time.
I like the way the fade works now, for the most part. I also find it frustruating that a lot of times the fade can make it out of a room full of HMGs and HA's after doing a bunch of damage to the marines.
I think that if they added a longer delay after blinking before you can attack or heal or whatever, it would help balace the fades ability. It might just change the way a lot of people play with the fade if they know they cant attact for 1 to 2 secs after they blink.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Jun 4 2004, 05:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 4 2004, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if they are actually stealth units (which they are probably not) then the aliens already lost. MT and there goes your stealth.
They're supposed to be people teleporting in and out kiling marines who don't understand wth is going on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Love that ****. Ambush and disruption - and massacre
Comments
Fades fit several tasks, from base storming to ninja assassin. I think its unfair to lump it into any one category since it fundamentally restricts what should be one of the alien strengths - adaptability.
Hold blink down...you go invisible...you make no sound, and then when you let up or run out of juice you appear....along with increasing the fades speed...
I think I would be back to crapping myself in NS....OMG FADE!!!!! where'd it go?
Of course you would have to have Observatory Negate the effect.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if you want to take out a base with one, your best bet is to hang near by and wate for them to leave...
and above all...
hit and run, hit and run...
Hold blink down...you go invisible...you make no sound, and then when you let up or run out of juice you appear....along with increasing the fades speed...
I think I would be back to crapping myself in NS....OMG FADE!!!!! where'd it go?
Of course you would have to have Observatory Negate the effect.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea that pretty much sums it up. It would have to be restricted to a certian extent. I mean really all I want if the fade to turn invisible when it blinks. Because to me the fade looks really really dumb when it blinks around right now.
Yeah that uber-cloak would be sweet. There'd have to be some kind of warning that a fade was about to appear for balance's sake however. Maybe a whoosh noise or something. I can just see people suddenly appearing behind a marine, killing him, vanishing (all with about 1.5 seconds) and appearing on a beam in the other corner of the room.
Balance would definately be an issue, but if an obs made the fade act like normal (current normal that is, just high speed movement for blink) that'd help. The cloaking would also not make adren fades unkillable, as currently in order to fly, they just blink until adren runs out, and for a split second they're not blinking while it recharges enough to continue. With the invisi-fade, they'd be visible for this split second, so you'd see a flickering fade moving around, instead of a invisible "bladed Messiah". You'd still have a target to shoot at, instead of merely hearing a whooshing noise and then getting diced into bite sized pieces.
LOW HP, high AP creatures (50HP/200AP) with a POWERFUL, SLOW attack (swipe should be a 6 point swipe... like you do with a Rapier but in this case the 2 claws make 3 swipes each, over the course of 1/2 second for the entire attack but dealing 400 dmg, with a once every 3 seconds rate of fire)
Makes sense to me... weak if you see it coming, OMG WTH HAPPENED if you ain't guarding your **** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying a fade that can take 2 shotgun blasts but can take out a HA in one attack is something you want to have flying around the map? Imagine what will happen if you get focus. You dont even need to get both swipes in. You can swipe and hit one marine with each of the 3 swipes in under 1 second and you will have 3 dead marines. Then you walk into base and just sit on the IP killing marines because they can even respond. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basicly... yes
Spawn campers should be banned... they are on mah server! *which is now UP BTW*
Anywho, I'd like to see that actualy, the star of david I found it's called by some people (how origional) because the slash pattern forms a star!
Imagine a fade doing that with it's claws! THAT would be an awsome attack! Just Swish swish swish swish swish STAB!
about fades.... yeah, that blink making you invisible is pretty cool.
Back on topic..
But who knows? Maybe a name change is in order as I'm seeing more and more... interesting upgrade choices, thinking they're playing the game in character or something (I.E. Redempt, cloaking, scilence.) Keep in mind, if all the alines could do was hide and ambush with ALL their units up untill the onos, they'd get destroyed. 50 res for a big fat scary skulk wouldn't be worth it, and most common ambush spots get old after a while.
Maybe a name change is needed, considering what the word 'fade' implies.
Just to recap what's been discussed here:
There seems to be three types of fades that people have in mind:
- The one that's an all-purpose fade, moreorless one that can deal more damage and take a bit more damage, and overall being able to withstand mid-upgraded marines.
- One that's a hit-and-run fade, zoom in and zoom out.
- And the last is a cloak/sneaky fade that's able sneak around and take out stranglers.
There's also discussion about the blinkage, ranging from old 1.0X blink to holding down a button while moving across the map (semi-cloak) fast.
So let's move the discussion in a different direction with this question:
<b>Which of these fades would be the most fun to play? (If you have another type of fade, go ahead and explain it) Why?</b>
Please, be considerate about fun with other people (e.g. It maybe 'fun' to spawn devour as onos in MS with 1 IP left).
-----------------
I'll start. I consider cloak-fades fun since it adds to the atmosphere trying to find that fade. I think it's a bit better than fades that currently zoom in, hits, and zooms out with shotties and other marine weapons trying to kill it.
Anyway, I prefer the last type. The cloaky-sneaky-OMG WHERE'D IT GO! fade. This blink is just powerful, too powerful, and not fun to play against. And I know I personally get bored pwning rines over and over again doing the same damn blink-swipe-meta-blink-swipe-meta....it gets boring damn it! I have a lot more fun inducing heart attacks with a divebombing lerk.
Anyway, I love that idea. Although giving it more life then the Lerk, somewhere around 110 HP and 100 armor, and a powerful swipe attack that just drains a sh!tload of energy...
Don't use meta <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Problem solved *g*
I would prefer a sneaky cloak teleport style blink but what about game balance? Marines would win <b>every</b> combat match with weakened fades (and I don't think classic would be any better). I never understood why fade health was increased at one point in the beta. 50 or even 100 less health would still be fine (speaking about combat).
Anyway I would like to see all alien lifeforms more suitable for stealth attacks. The whole fun in this game was the dark maps (now they are all bright), sneaky skulks and the terror. Playing marine was fun. Sometimes you nearly got a heart attack because those small creatures jumped around a corner or in your face from above. Marines did always stick together. Rambos couldn't do much. They were easy prey because skulks were much stronger in close combat.
Nevermind. The good old times are like... once upon a time.
I think that if they added a longer delay after blinking before you can attack or heal or whatever, it would help balace the fades ability. It might just change the way a lot of people play with the fade if they know they cant attact for 1 to 2 secs after they blink.
They're supposed to be people teleporting in and out kiling marines who don't understand wth is going on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Love that ****. Ambush and disruption - and massacre