i play ns all the time. the problem with ns is co... co is balenced to 2 hives and obviously in ns you start with 1 hive. the mariens are the same in both ns and co...
I think what ppl are saying is that games are too fast. Its a little too hot theres not time for talking...randomly seting up little ambushes..peacefully gorging. Its all the time action...strategy is reduced to reacting to the other team..no plans are made. One hell of alot of the classic games i play..with teams who have a clue are decided extremely rapidly the house of cards falls way too fast for one team or the other...there is no natural balance between the teams. The most fun games are where the teams balance and gradually skill or a radical plan will tell. Tbh i consider a quick win for either team a waste. YEAH WE WON A ROUND! Lets do it again ! Games that actually interest me are when some real fights over a location develop..not we lost it/got it gg. I think this is what is missing, ns early on was about these battles not about winning a meaningless round. It didn't matter who won...now its just, marines / aliens won/lost again...repeat. Where are the heroes...i miss them too. However i dont want to go back to the old days, i think ns is better than it ever was.
I moved overseas a month ago so I don't play anything atm (never mind Asia's craptastic pings to everywhere). I only have access to a computer at work and I'm usually too busy with other stuff to play games.
I'm getting a computer at home in the next few days (finally!) however, so I'll be making a return to gaming and modding (my C++ and HL coding is rusty and I need to start practicing again, in case HL2 acutally gets released...)
I miss the long games of NS, where it wasn't just capping a couple nodes and holding off Aliens until you had enough res to ride the heavy train home, or where it was a struggle to get the next hive so you could get x ability needed to help clean out the Marine infestation. The best games I've ever had were in 1.04 and 2.0, and went on for an hour or longer (during which it wasn't all intense fighting, we actually built bases and set traps and almost, -almost- acheived strategy...)
if you want to get more strategical (if thats a word <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) then maybe try joining/creating a clan... you can use any strategy you want and you will be able to plan beforehand, plus you'll have complete control over the players and they will be competent/good players <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yeah... i play ns, propably still a little too much. but, it's starting to wear me down... every game is almost the exact copy of the last one, with DMS and the maps being so limited. it's always the same strategy.
What the problem with NS today is? Keep in mind that I only attend public servers but... the thrill and sense of community is lost. When I played the first time nobody knew how to play. It was NS 1.0 and 4 a.m. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> There was a friendly atmosphere and everybody helped the newbies and welcomed them to the game. You would build tons of stuff and battle several hours. It was even possible to turn games around from situations that in 3.0 beta "this and that" is considered a finished game.
So, after a while I stop playing. A lot of stuff takes me away from gaming. When I return everything is changed. Nobody builds anything any more. If you suggest a TF in base you'll get flamed and harassed as a noob. And that's the other major problem. NS is even worse than CS when it comes to being rude to beginners and players in general. Especially if they, the Gods forbid, should try Commanding.
Someone said NS has gone downhill since 1.04. I'm inclined to agree. The fun part of NS was the building and upgrading. At least for me. I still revert to ooooldschool and stay gorge in my part of the map erecting walls of lame or building small defense outposts, trying to forsee the marines movement and place chambers to best mess it up. Problem with this is the same as for commanding marines. Apparently building is no longer needed. I was actually told the other night by someone not to build OCs. Fine, f**k it then but that, for me, is the fun part about NS.
While on the subject: Why the hell doesn't anyone realize the importance of having res and getting it early in the game? Am I too old? Have NS changed to a braindead Rambo slaughter? Everyone "**** res", as the say on the net is, and then goes onos or fade. They will get killed most of the times and nag about slow res and not having any hives or chambers.
Some points I always get hung up on: The Lerk is better but the spikes, I miss em'! The Dual res areas should be removed. People are stupid (not much to do about it though)... Why, oh why, isn't there an active balancing? Or forced auto team balance? ("teams guys!" "**** you!") Res is too slow, more buildings I say!!!! Many more...
About Combat: Move the ****** spawns away from CC/Hive! Points should be awarded for damage (at lower rate) AND kills.
<!--QuoteBegin-Warrior+Jun 5 2004, 10:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Warrior @ Jun 5 2004, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont play anymore. Reasons are: NS is boring, not fun, better games to play, cs is more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wow
/me holds back so no flaming <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well i would sugguest everyone who is bored of pubing, to go get into a clan, or make one
and stick with it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 5 2004, 01:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 5 2004, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nobody will though because they can't accept losing over and over till they develop some kind of team mentality and their strats. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats the sad part <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just experienced the two best rounds of NS whilst playing 3.0! The aliens whipped the rines. I typed instructions and strangely enough people listened! We had 2 guys going fade or onos and attacking Res points, 3 skulks attacking rines and always 3 or 4 gorges. Those with res used it to BUILD unless we needed a new onos or fade. Within a minute we had at least half the res points and were making sure the rines didn't keep theirs. Wonderful players at the server too. So, pressure on the rine RTs, going between gorge and skulk BUILDING and having 2 or 3 "attackers". Sounds easy enough but on a public server? It was god damn great!! Just need to "rince and repeat" with rines.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Jun 4 2004, 05:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Jun 4 2004, 05:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Standard divide and conquer technique, make a big task a series of many tiny tasks that can be done independently wherever possible. In the beginning it would be good to just talk it out without doing any coding or modelling at all. Any member must be willing to concede and reject their own ideas if disliked by the team without keeping a grudge. In particular it is important to discuss how <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A few years ago, I managed a project involving coders on both coasts, plus a couple in Dallas. What worked for me was to specify loosely-coupled components, parcel them out to coders, and integrate and test their work. Like you said, divide and conquer.
Of course, this worked because the coders were getting paid. So I could draw up a UML diagram, say "create and optimize a database schema for this," and expect the DBA to trust my judgement.
In a mod environment, where everyone expects to be intimately involved in the design process, this would never work. You'd be mired forever in discussing design and requirements. Creating prototypes and nattering about details.
You'd need a heavy-duty, highly-respected vision guy (who was also a programmer and a project manager and a designer) to take a leadership role and keep everyone in line and motivated. Maybe Minh Le has some free time. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's so strange, how a game like NS can be so addictive even though game's seem to alway's go the way they alway's do. Almost every new match there's something new and unexpected... secret hive going up... marine's sieging out main while you're defending a hive you thought was under attack... alien's destroying marine base while comm and marine's are distracted. So much fun!
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 2 2004, 04:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 2 2004, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulks are fine the entire problem for aliens are that chambers are totally situational. How many skulks "waste" res on carapace regen or redemption? I never do, every last resource is precious and aliens don't get to use upgrades very often. Chambers should cost more but provide FREE upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> free upgrades actually makes alot of sense and gives a greater sense of purpose to chambers other than regen for fades as well as gives the marines more incentive to hunt down the chambers
I still play NS, because its fun. Despite what the 1.04 fanboys try to tell you, it's not different it the same game but the original problems have been fixed. Now there are new problems, they will be fixed as well.
I think we'd all do the community as a whole a favor if we'd stop complaining, and go enjoy the game for what it is.
I used to play the game a great deal, but I stopped playing regularly about 2-3 months ago. The lack of any developer feedback is discouraging. I wouldn't mind if the game was in a finished or at least balanced build, but the current product is far from being polished, and has been that way for quite some time.
I tried a couple of games with the new meta mod for unchaining the chambers, and while it added a nice splash of tactics to the Kharaa side, a good Marine team still dominated a good to excellent Kharaa team, game after game.
I never liked combat, so I don't even consider it.
I'll still regularly attend the forums, but unless something pretty good happens soon (gameplay wise) I fear for NS's future as a mainstream game.
I stopped playing around 2.1, the game had lost all appeal to me.
I'm still stuck in the 1.04 days. Aliens were a lot more team work based because they were underpowered. Ambushes at key corners/doors were essential to the defense of your res nodes and hive. I enjoyed the one static gorge, while occasionally having a second gorge to pop a res node. Simpler was funner.
Marines also seemed funner in 1.04, with more variety in movement, but honestly less teamwork. I remember strategies where we would send one competent player to rush the alien hive while the rest of the team would hold the map until JP/HMG were ready.
I don't remember or quite frankly know where NS went wrong, but the fun was lost with version 2.0+
I'm sick of hearing that 1.04 was fantastic. I've played since the day ns was released. Let me just say this: If my clan could beat everyone in the aussie competition bar 1 clan regularly on the one strat...when you consider that strat consisted of hold 1 res point out of spawn, save for jetpacks/HMGs and take the 2nd hive down before it was up, then take the final hive for the win.....that doesn't seem very fair.
In eclipse matches we'd go to station with 3 guys and keep 2 at spawn. We wouldn't touch the rest of the map until we had jp/HMG's and we'd always win. I don't call that skill, I certainly don't call it the glory days of ns. I call it an unbalanced game. If the aliens can hold 7 uncontested res points and still lose every time, then there's something wrong. And 3.0, despite its flaws, is a hell of a lot fairer than the days of 1.04.
all the different opinions of how to get ns back to what it was in 1.04 times. it was great because of... the new game play idea? a real team play mod? i was very pleased by the team aspect (perhaps because of my poor skills <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) it was possible for a less skilled player to participate in wining a game... most times now i get f***ed because being too slow, too bad aiming, standing in wrong place etc... and it is frustrating sometimes when your team tries hard and can't get a game running and the end of the round is cleared after first 2 min (or it seems like).
how to improve the team play? i miss communication especially when playing aliens (on <b>most</b> pubs - and that is what i play). i would try it but i am not the pro gamer to give advices - but perhaps that's not the point...
<!--QuoteBegin-kolokol+Jun 5 2004, 02:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kolokol @ Jun 5 2004, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what ive heard clans dont have very varied strats either. I think ns has become to unforgiving really. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well sure clans have a set in stone strat they all know extremely well but the entire point to scimmages is to test things and try stuff out which is very fun, and happens to be 90% of what a clan does. 10% is playing the actual cal match and that only lasts 20-45 minutes
What is... "NS?" And who is this "Flayra" guy anyway? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Iv been playing NS pretty much as soon as it was relased and i used to spend my evnings playing just NS, but now after 1.04 i play maby once, twice a week.
I started playing NS at round 1AM the morning after Halloween and have played pretty consistently since.
A lot of people argue that CS requires more skill, more strategy, but I think thats a load of horse manure. NS encompases so many broad ranging skills and classes that even after a year or so I still manage to find areas that I am lacking in indivudually.
Now, I havn't really ever been in a clan at all. Clan play requires you to improve your individual skills tremendously while also emphasizing teamwork. There are so many interactions and levels of leadership in NS. Comparing its intricate gameplay with a rather simplistic game like CS does not do it justice. The only reason CS is more 'intricate' with strategies right now is because its playerbase is huge. Imagine if NS that many; what you'd see is strategies erupting for individual rooms, a massive book of knowledge filled with siege locations and choke points.
NS is a very deep and immersive game and I don't think we've scratched the surface yet.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 2 2004, 01:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 2 2004, 01:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't. Well I do pop in for a game with my friends maybe once a... month. Sometimes when I've little else to do I'll go to my favorite server. But I only play maybe two games a month.
Why not? After 1.04, the game's just gone downhill. Nothing new or exciting anymore. Changes I don't like that make no sense. The fact that the dev team decided somewhere in there to break off all contact with the players pretty much cemented the decision for me.
Anyone else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> your opinion...definetely not mine
I still play the game. It's still wonderfull, and I try to play all the time, but I manage to play 3-5 times a week at least <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
the mariens are the same in both ns and co...
see the problem???
. . .
Which isn't that often. But I'll be playing today and this weekend.
Games that actually interest me are when some real fights over a location develop..not we lost it/got it gg. I think this is what is missing, ns early on was about these battles not about winning a meaningless round. It didn't matter who won...now its just, marines / aliens won/lost again...repeat. Where are the heroes...i miss them too.
However i dont want to go back to the old days, i think ns is better than it ever was.
I'm getting a computer at home in the next few days (finally!) however, so I'll be making a return to gaming and modding (my C++ and HL coding is rusty and I need to start practicing again, in case HL2 acutally gets released...)
I miss the long games of NS, where it wasn't just capping a couple nodes and holding off Aliens until you had enough res to ride the heavy train home, or where it was a struggle to get the next hive so you could get x ability needed to help clean out the Marine infestation. The best games I've ever had were in 1.04 and 2.0, and went on for an hour or longer (during which it wasn't all intense fighting, we actually built bases and set traps and almost, -almost- acheived strategy...)
-- codeman
PLUS, clan games are a lot of fun!
I only attend public servers but...
the thrill and sense of community is lost. When I played the first time
nobody knew how to play. It was NS 1.0 and 4 a.m. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There was a friendly atmosphere and everybody
helped the newbies and welcomed them to the game.
You would build tons of stuff and battle several hours.
It was even possible to turn games around from situations
that in 3.0 beta "this and that" is considered a finished game.
So, after a while I stop playing. A lot of stuff takes me away
from gaming. When I return everything is changed.
Nobody builds anything any more. If you suggest a TF in base
you'll get flamed and harassed as a noob. And that's the other
major problem. NS is even worse than CS when it comes to
being rude to beginners and players in general. Especially
if they, the Gods forbid, should try Commanding.
Someone said NS has gone downhill since 1.04. I'm inclined to agree.
The fun part of NS was the building and upgrading. At least for me.
I still revert to ooooldschool and stay gorge in my part of the map erecting
walls of lame or building small defense outposts, trying to forsee the
marines movement and place chambers to best mess it up.
Problem with this is the same as for commanding marines.
Apparently building is no longer needed. I was actually told the other
night by someone not to build OCs. Fine, f**k it then but that, for me,
is the fun part about NS.
While on the subject: Why the hell doesn't anyone realize the importance
of having res and getting it early in the game? Am I too old? Have NS changed
to a braindead Rambo slaughter? Everyone "**** res", as the say on the net is,
and then goes onos or fade. They will get killed most of the times
and nag about slow res and not having any hives or chambers.
Some points I always get hung up on:
The Lerk is better but the spikes, I miss em'!
The Dual res areas should be removed.
People are stupid (not much to do about it though)...
Why, oh why, isn't there an active balancing? Or forced
auto team balance? ("teams guys!" "**** you!")
Res is too slow, more buildings I say!!!!
Many more...
About Combat:
Move the ****** spawns away from CC/Hive!
Points should be awarded for damage (at lower rate) AND kills.
....blowing off steam...
wow
/me holds back so no flaming <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well i would sugguest everyone who is bored of pubing, to go get into a clan, or make one
and stick with it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
thats the sad part <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The aliens whipped the rines. I typed instructions and strangely enough
people listened! We had 2 guys going fade or onos and attacking
Res points, 3 skulks attacking rines and always 3 or 4 gorges.
Those with res used it to BUILD unless we needed a new onos or fade.
Within a minute we had at least half the res points and were making
sure the rines didn't keep theirs. Wonderful players at the server too.
So, pressure on the rine RTs, going between gorge and skulk BUILDING
and having 2 or 3 "attackers". Sounds easy enough but on a public server?
It was god damn great!!
Just need to "rince and repeat" with rines.
A few years ago, I managed a project involving coders on both coasts, plus a couple in Dallas. What worked for me was to specify loosely-coupled components, parcel them out to coders, and integrate and test their work. Like you said, divide and conquer.
Of course, this worked because the coders were getting paid. So I could draw up a UML diagram, say "create and optimize a database schema for this," and expect the DBA to trust my judgement.
In a mod environment, where everyone expects to be intimately involved in the design process, this would never work. You'd be mired forever in discussing design and requirements. Creating prototypes and nattering about details.
You'd need a heavy-duty, highly-respected vision guy (who was also a programmer and a project manager and a designer) to take a leadership role and keep everyone in line and motivated. Maybe Minh Le has some free time. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
free upgrades actually makes alot of sense and gives a greater sense of purpose to chambers other than regen for fades as well as gives the marines more incentive to hunt down the chambers
I think we'd all do the community as a whole a favor if we'd stop complaining, and go enjoy the game for what it is.
I tried a couple of games with the new meta mod for unchaining the chambers, and while it added a nice splash of tactics to the Kharaa side, a good Marine team still dominated a good to excellent Kharaa team, game after game.
I never liked combat, so I don't even consider it.
I'll still regularly attend the forums, but unless something pretty good happens soon (gameplay wise) I fear for NS's future as a mainstream game.
I'm still stuck in the 1.04 days. Aliens were a lot more team work based because they were underpowered. Ambushes at key corners/doors were essential to the defense of your res nodes and hive. I enjoyed the one static gorge, while occasionally having a second gorge to pop a res node. Simpler was funner.
Marines also seemed funner in 1.04, with more variety in movement, but honestly less teamwork. I remember strategies where we would send one competent player to rush the alien hive while the rest of the team would hold the map until JP/HMG were ready.
I don't remember or quite frankly know where NS went wrong, but the fun was lost with version 2.0+
Anywho, recall 1.04!
In eclipse matches we'd go to station with 3 guys and keep 2 at spawn. We wouldn't touch the rest of the map until we had jp/HMG's and we'd always win. I don't call that skill, I certainly don't call it the glory days of ns. I call it an unbalanced game. If the aliens can hold 7 uncontested res points and still lose every time, then there's something wrong. And 3.0, despite its flaws, is a hell of a lot fairer than the days of 1.04.
most times now i get f***ed because being too slow, too bad aiming, standing in wrong place etc... and it is frustrating sometimes when your team tries hard and can't get a game running and the end of the round is cleared after first 2 min (or it seems like).
how to improve the team play? i miss communication especially when playing aliens (on <b>most</b> pubs - and that is what i play). i would try it but i am not the pro gamer to give advices - but perhaps that's not the point...
Well sure clans have a set in stone strat they all know extremely well but the entire point to scimmages is to test things and try stuff out which is very fun, and happens to be 90% of what a clan does. 10% is playing the actual cal match and that only lasts 20-45 minutes
A lot of people argue that CS requires more skill, more strategy, but I think thats a load of horse manure. NS encompases so many broad ranging skills and classes that even after a year or so I still manage to find areas that I am lacking in indivudually.
Now, I havn't really ever been in a clan at all. Clan play requires you to improve your individual skills tremendously while also emphasizing teamwork. There are so many interactions and levels of leadership in NS. Comparing its intricate gameplay with a rather simplistic game like CS does not do it justice. The only reason CS is more 'intricate' with strategies right now is because its playerbase is huge. Imagine if NS that many; what you'd see is strategies erupting for individual rooms, a massive book of knowledge filled with siege locations and choke points.
NS is a very deep and immersive game and I don't think we've scratched the surface yet.
Why not? After 1.04, the game's just gone downhill. Nothing new or exciting anymore. Changes I don't like that make no sense. The fact that the dev team decided somewhere in there to break off all contact with the players pretty much cemented the decision for me.
Anyone else? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
your opinion...definetely not mine