Fades Still A Problem
Diablus
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
<div class="IPBDescription">they limit the marine tech strats.STILL</div> Nornally you see a fade 3 minutes into a game. Now to kill a fade you say "drop Shotguns" well shotguns require resources. Fades own resource towers. Shotguns are 10 res. drop them to a team requires the resources that the fade is killing. Get a good fade and the games over. Get 2 fades 3 minutes into the game. both keep marines in thier base by attacking and killing ips while the rest of the alien team expands around the map. Now unless you have a comm who knows what he/she is doing. with a good team who are pretty good with thier aim. your going to lose, regardless if you kill 1 of the 2 fades. Now i state that they limit marine tech strategies is that they FORCE marines to go weapons 2/armor 1. Marines have a hard time MT rushing, Tech rushing, etc. I think theyre comming too early into the games where strategies are still being developed.
Comments
Read the word "tech". Shotguns have no research time. Maybe if you want to be complete, PGs are really helpful too, since you have a harder time regaining territory with Fades around.
Weapon levels are highly overrated, the most dramatic effect is achieved by the method of delivery. The main reason to rush them is team morale, not actual effectiveness. They're in no way necessary to hold off Fades and other lifeforms - upgrade reliability and ease of availability does make them something you want to constantly be researching though.
A good example was a 6v6 tanith today, which we played with nodeblocking, denying aliens any RT past the first one (we never managed to assault that RT, unfortunately - but they never got a second). At 6:00 we had just managed A1, Phasetech and an AA (for a later JP rush) - and they got Fades on one node at that point. They still couldn't stop us with amazing level 0 weapons (The fades where one MoI [aka ~o] and one exigent if I recall correctly).
Motion first is still viable like in the good old days.
NS really isn't diverse game in the strategy aspect, being FPS, so it might be better to stick with proven-good tactics anyway... (At least no one gets ejected this way) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyway. to tell the truth, alien early game is a horrible struggle. the release comes after fades start appearing. if there'd be a longer wait aliens would get slaughtered due to the marine tech superiority being overwhelming.
- Fades die to 3 sg shots, even 3 lmger are a threat to the fade with > wu1
To sum it up: Fades are very good the way they are, certainly not too strong, but maybe a tiny bit too weak (in classic, screw combat =P).
NS really isn't diverse game in the strategy aspect, being FPS, so it might be better to stick with proven-good tactics anyway... (At least no one gets ejected this way) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades Balanced....
Naa, fades are way to strong, I constantly see fades in CO games getting 40-50 kills and dieing 0-5 times, the problem is swipe, blink, ive seen lvl 3 hmg's countless times not being able to take down a fade that has skill, or hacks.
I think Blink needs looking at, I dont think a fade should be able to fly, as this is what really happens, fades jumping 100 feet in the air, then turning in the air as if they have wings....
To me this is crapo, as a Fade I play in aliens at times, so easy to not die, making the marines get little xp.
Though with HA it could hurt the aliens even more. Maybe amplify damage as well as armor absorpsion with every hive? Force the aliens to get a second hive before fades can really be effective, cutting down on the prevalence of the 3 minute fade.
This could possibly also lead to new chamber orders, as DCs are primarily picked first because the one hive fade NEEDS regen. With hive 2, the fade will get meta.
Mostly surroundings are a threat to Fades. And thats their fatal weakness/craptasticness in larger games towards midgame - they're not capable of fighting in some cases on the majority of the map. A tight siege spot and they're fairly useless.
Only when 'rines have to traverse large open spaces do Fades really shine. As the territory gets worse, and the group of marines up to 9 people, Skulks start doing more good than a Fade.
Hell, theres little in the way of an Alien counter to a siegespot like say Cold Turn, except superb coordination and throwing all you have in there with Umbra a boatload of Skulks and 1-2 really, really careful lifeforms. Marines on the other hand have a counter handy to almost any ability (GLs versus umbra, HMGs vs Fades/Onoses, Catpacks vs careful lifeforms, Jetpacks just in case they're really frickin' careful, structure blocking just in case you still suck too much to kill them and a whole arsenal of great toys to rape the **** out of the stock alien lifeform, the Skulk).
When I first joined NS in 2.0 and asked "What the fark do you do against a 2 Hive Onos?", the answer I got was "never let them get that far". Nowadays, the roles are reversed - the only thing you can do against a good marine team is never let them get up to tech. And Fades are only popular because they're the best bet when it comes to doing that - if they fail, they become entirely obsolete.
At the very least, I sure wish I could switch my guns as fast as a fade can switch between blink and swipe, that'd be nice and fair.
and: if fades are too strong in combat (which they arent, u just can't kill them it seems) let them be. of course its easy for a fade to own rambo marines on co_daimos, but when there's 5 HAHMG in that little tight corridor leading to the co_angst hive, a fade is no good. even with ar.
trust me, apart from acid rocket, fades are fine.
Dude, this is a great idea, no sarcasm <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If any dev missed the topics (how???) I'll gladly forward them a link.
Btw i think that shottie is really unfair...only 2 points.
I was talking about Classic, not (eygh...) Combat. I don't know one bit about the latter, but in Classic, fades are just fine (at two hives).