How Not To Be A Game Dev
<div class="IPBDescription">Step one: Ignore your community</div> (This is worth a read even if you've never heard of planetside)
This is not a rant, o.k maybe this paragraph IS a rant, so feel free to skip ahead. I'm fully aware that whining "OMG DEVS J00 RUIN TEH GAME!!!1" is all too common these days, that said, I think the planetside devs have really outdone themselves this time. After a few good patches it was inevitable that the balance had to be broken, and as usual it is the New Conglomorate who have come out on top again. Much like the (unfounded) belief from many that the NS devs favoured aliens around the release of 2.0, the NC have always seemed to be the "golden child" of the devs. Until now I hadn't believed it, what with a recent patch taking away their ability to run towards you at insane speeds and unload all 3 barrels of their blessed Jackhammer into your face.
A breif introduction to those who don't know:
Planetside is a MMOFPS, Massively Multiplayer Online First-Person Shooter. It has vehicles, aircraft and infantry, and features some of the largest scale battles ever seen in an online game.
O.k i'll try to stop rambling and get to the point.
The planetside devs recently (yesterday) released empire-specific varients on the deliverer, a transport vehicle.
The Terran Republic (TR, my empire) got the Raider, a varient with 4 guns instead of 2. This is probably the most balanced varient of the 3, as it is far more leathal than the old one, but needs more gunners to be effective.
The Vanu Sovrienty (VS) got the Aurora, a piece of crap. It is useless in every way.
The New Conglomorate (NC) got a tank. Literally. In fact, it is currently BETTER than the NC's main battle tank. This <b>transport</b> variant can easily take out multiple tanks and can one-shot-kill infantry.
How many times were these varients tested? Twice. And no changes were made to the Thunderer (the NC variant).
Now I can understand that everyone makes mistakes, but if you check out <a href='http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=pstestserver&message.id=1693&view=by_date_ascending&page=1' target='_blank'>this</a> thread on the PS boards (no, you don't need a login to view it) you will see the sheer determination by one dev (Smokejumper) to ignore the playerbase as much as possible. He employs what I like to call the <a href='http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame78.html' target='_blank'>Stone Deaf</a> tactic; i.e, he just outright ignores any arguments he doesn't like.
For those of you who haven't played planetside, here is the gist of how leathal this thing (the Thunderer) is:
It's main guns (of which it has two) can kill infantry in a single shot. The only other weapons capable of doing this are tank shells, artillery barrages, orbital strikes and the Jackhammer (at point blank if you fire off all three barrels).
Not only does it have a one-hit-kill weapon, but is has NONE of the disadvantages associated with other such weapons;
The Jackhammer requires you are literally touching the enemy to kill in one hit, Tanks are slow and require a tech plant in order to build, artillery barrages are innacurate and hardly able to hit a single infantryman, and orbital strikes can be fired only every 2 hours.
But it's not just infantry that this thing tears through, oh no. It takes only 6 seconds of sustained fire to kill a galaxy transport, the heaviest armoured vehicle in the game.
Add to this splash damage and the fact that it moves bloody fast and you've got a recipie for success, if you happen to be an NC.
Please note that the above PS forum thread was made BEFORE the patch was released, these people are complaining about the playtest, and had no idea that this monstrosity was going to be unleased on the public.
If you want to see the effect this thing is having on overall balance, check out the live battle map on <a href='http://www.planetside.com' target='_blank'>Planetside.com</a>. The NC are blue by the way. As I'm writing this, the NC are winning on all three continents, although last time I checked they were completely dominating on two continents, and just barely losing on another. At one point they had 55% of the total game population, which is pretty appalling considering there are three empires.
Balance aside, my point isn't about balance, it's about the way that the Devs completely ignored what the community were saying, and instead decided to release a buggy, untested patch which could so easily have been made better with a simple damage decrease on the Thunderer.
Rant over. We now return you to your schedueled browsing.
This is not a rant, o.k maybe this paragraph IS a rant, so feel free to skip ahead. I'm fully aware that whining "OMG DEVS J00 RUIN TEH GAME!!!1" is all too common these days, that said, I think the planetside devs have really outdone themselves this time. After a few good patches it was inevitable that the balance had to be broken, and as usual it is the New Conglomorate who have come out on top again. Much like the (unfounded) belief from many that the NS devs favoured aliens around the release of 2.0, the NC have always seemed to be the "golden child" of the devs. Until now I hadn't believed it, what with a recent patch taking away their ability to run towards you at insane speeds and unload all 3 barrels of their blessed Jackhammer into your face.
A breif introduction to those who don't know:
Planetside is a MMOFPS, Massively Multiplayer Online First-Person Shooter. It has vehicles, aircraft and infantry, and features some of the largest scale battles ever seen in an online game.
O.k i'll try to stop rambling and get to the point.
The planetside devs recently (yesterday) released empire-specific varients on the deliverer, a transport vehicle.
The Terran Republic (TR, my empire) got the Raider, a varient with 4 guns instead of 2. This is probably the most balanced varient of the 3, as it is far more leathal than the old one, but needs more gunners to be effective.
The Vanu Sovrienty (VS) got the Aurora, a piece of crap. It is useless in every way.
The New Conglomorate (NC) got a tank. Literally. In fact, it is currently BETTER than the NC's main battle tank. This <b>transport</b> variant can easily take out multiple tanks and can one-shot-kill infantry.
How many times were these varients tested? Twice. And no changes were made to the Thunderer (the NC variant).
Now I can understand that everyone makes mistakes, but if you check out <a href='http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/board/message?board.id=pstestserver&message.id=1693&view=by_date_ascending&page=1' target='_blank'>this</a> thread on the PS boards (no, you don't need a login to view it) you will see the sheer determination by one dev (Smokejumper) to ignore the playerbase as much as possible. He employs what I like to call the <a href='http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame78.html' target='_blank'>Stone Deaf</a> tactic; i.e, he just outright ignores any arguments he doesn't like.
For those of you who haven't played planetside, here is the gist of how leathal this thing (the Thunderer) is:
It's main guns (of which it has two) can kill infantry in a single shot. The only other weapons capable of doing this are tank shells, artillery barrages, orbital strikes and the Jackhammer (at point blank if you fire off all three barrels).
Not only does it have a one-hit-kill weapon, but is has NONE of the disadvantages associated with other such weapons;
The Jackhammer requires you are literally touching the enemy to kill in one hit, Tanks are slow and require a tech plant in order to build, artillery barrages are innacurate and hardly able to hit a single infantryman, and orbital strikes can be fired only every 2 hours.
But it's not just infantry that this thing tears through, oh no. It takes only 6 seconds of sustained fire to kill a galaxy transport, the heaviest armoured vehicle in the game.
Add to this splash damage and the fact that it moves bloody fast and you've got a recipie for success, if you happen to be an NC.
Please note that the above PS forum thread was made BEFORE the patch was released, these people are complaining about the playtest, and had no idea that this monstrosity was going to be unleased on the public.
If you want to see the effect this thing is having on overall balance, check out the live battle map on <a href='http://www.planetside.com' target='_blank'>Planetside.com</a>. The NC are blue by the way. As I'm writing this, the NC are winning on all three continents, although last time I checked they were completely dominating on two continents, and just barely losing on another. At one point they had 55% of the total game population, which is pretty appalling considering there are three empires.
Balance aside, my point isn't about balance, it's about the way that the Devs completely ignored what the community were saying, and instead decided to release a buggy, untested patch which could so easily have been made better with a simple damage decrease on the Thunderer.
Rant over. We now return you to your schedueled browsing.
Comments
Especially if you're SOE.
If anyone here has followed the latest EQ expansion, Gates of Discord, you'll know what I mean. They released the thing with like 90% of the endgame content just flat broken. Not bugged, but not working at all. They thought they could fix it before someone got there, but... they're idiots.
For a highly successful, balanced and enjoyable game, simply do the precise opposite of those idiots. Thats why I'll never leave NS - cant get enough of these kick bootie devs. Flayra, Cagey - champions!
While I never found the actual favorite team, I knew they generally just hated Vanu.
The point he is making is they aren't listening to their fanbase at all
Haha you actually pay for this piece of my crap.
Drop it dude, I quit DOD because it went down the pooper. Im actually enjoying 1.2 however.......
EDIT: Isn't today the day they reactivate all accounts?
The point he is making is they aren't listening to their fanbase at all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you remember that episode of the Simpsons where Homer visits his brother, Herb, who's a big car manufacturer? What happens is Herb listens to Homer to design a car, and it's the biggest POS ever, Herb goes bankrupt, closes his factory and disowns Homer.
The point of me saying all this is that your average person, no matter how much people like to tell themselves, don't know sh*t about balance or designing a game. I'm sorry, but if i were a game dev, i wouldn't be listening to a 15 year old for advice to alter my financial security. Sure maybe a few good ideas are tossed around that probably aren't ignored, but most people don't know what the hell they're talking about and <i>should</i> be ignored.
Also, i stopped reading that thread on the PS forums when i saw the second post stating that this is on the test server, not on the actual live server. So this isn't final. This is a test, stop complaining.
...And you'd end up making a horrible game that nobody but yourself would enjoy. When your financial security depends on whether or not 15 year olds will pay you for your service, it is in your best interests to listen to 15 year olds.
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+May 28 2004, 03:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ May 28 2004, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, i stopped reading that thread on the PS forums when i saw the second post stating that this is on the test server, not on the actual live server. So this isn't final. This is a test, stop complaining.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nil IQ+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil IQ)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note that the above PS forum thread was made BEFORE the patch was released, these people are complaining about the playtest, and had no idea that this monstrosity was going to be unleased on the public.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point he is making is they aren't listening to their fanbase at all <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you remember that episode of the Simpsons where Homer visits his brother, Herb, who's a big car manufacturer? What happens is Herb listens to Homer to design a car, and it's the biggest POS ever, Herb goes bankrupt, closes his factory and disowns Homer.
The point of me saying all this is that your average person, no matter how much people like to tell themselves, don't know sh*t about balance or designing a game. I'm sorry, but if i were a game dev, i wouldn't be listening to a 15 year old for advice to alter my financial security. Sure maybe a few good ideas are tossed around that probably aren't ignored, but most people don't know what the hell they're talking about and <i>should</i> be ignored.
Also, i stopped reading that thread on the PS forums when i saw the second post stating that this is on the test server, not on the actual live server. So this isn't final. This is a test, stop complaining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't play Planetside, but it seems like the point of a beta and test server would be to get feedback from your playerbase - not to ignore it.
...Maybe it's just me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In your example, this would be akin to if Herb put out a car. Lots of customers send him mail about how the car is unsafe and he should install some seat belts, and Herb replies, "Seat belts! The customers don't need seat belts!"
WHY ARE THEY PUTTING THE MOST POWERFUL GUN IN THE GAME ON A APC?! WHY?!?!?!?
*explode*
...And you'd end up making a horrible game that nobody but yourself would enjoy. When your financial security depends on whether or not 15 year olds will pay you for your service, it is in your best interests to listen to 15 year olds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many games hinge on clueless teenagers for their creative input?
Sorry, but i don't remember Mike from Barnsley influencing Baldur's Gate 2, nor Jerry from Manchester having a big say in UT2K4's creation. Bob from Gretna Green was disappointed to find his suggestion for "electric landworms" was turned down for Battlefield 1942, and his cousin, Jeff, was equally disappointed when the suggestion to make all Nazi's robots in CoD that fire bees from their mouths, was shot down.
Oh yeah, that's right, most games have closed testing to stop winers, most games give the public zero input, why is this any different? Suck it up. If you don't like the way other games companies are doing it, here's a crazy idea, start your own company and show everyone how it's really done.
And if your target playerbase wants electric landworms and Nazi robots that shoot bees from their mouths, then you'd better give it to them, because believe it or not, other people know what they want better than you do. If I were to make a Diablo clone and I completely ignored the Diablo fanbase, how well do you think my game would sell?
[edit] Keep in mind that BF1942's target fanbase was not "people who want electric landworms" which is probably why they weren't included.
[edit2] Playerbase... not fanbase... or audience. I can be such a nub with words sometimes
I would except the big industries that would give me startup capital are allergic to good ideas.
And if your target fanbase wants electric landworms and Nazi robots that shoot bees from their mouths, then you'd better give it to them, because believe it or not, other people know what they want better than you do. If I were to make a Diablo clone and I completely ignored the Diablo fanbase, how well do you think my game would sell? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completly agree on that one. If the majority of the playerbase wants it, hey listen to them.
The Simpsons episode can also be put this way. Like a group developers to form a game alone. With no outside opinons involved. It might be a good game but it also may become a total disaster.
- Cliff Bleszinski
I'm sorry to tell you, Pulse, but, as mean as it might sound, most people have little idea of what they really want. They have a vague impression of what might be sorta good fueled by the media and previous games they consumed, but had the people feeding the first Pong machine coins been searching for an electronic way of playing pinball? Was ID so successful because players had screamed at developers for years that all they really wanted to do was, honestly, making things go splat in 3D environments? When Baldurs Gate appeared, many people argued that it had no chance for commercial success because, hey, who buys RPGs <i>nowadays</i>?
Not everything that's found and loved has to be sought in the first place.
That said, a healthy link to the user base is substantional. Not to prove your concept or your aesthetic gut instinct right or wrong - in the end, only you and the guy signing your cheques can do that - but to keep an eye on the details, most notably, the games balance.
If a dev can't stand getting told that his game "sucks since the release of the latest patch" for the first consecutive 72 waking hours after said patches release, he'd better stop doing multiplayer games. If he can't discern this usual outcry from valid criticism - which is, as a rule of thumb, <i>always</i> there -, he'd better not hope for a long living game. If he just stops listening "because he knows better", he betrayed himself. The first aim of any game is to entertain. If it doesn't, it has failed, and if it did because of an easily avoidable mistake, so did the dev.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>HEAR, HEAR.</b></span> One only has to look at the I&S forums to know that at least 60% of all humans are worthless fodder. However, there is a fine line between ignoring fools and being a fool, and SOE crosses this line with almost every game it releases. So much for my dreams of ever getting back into PS.
Darn you, Nem, you beat me to the punch with a much more well-spoken post. Grr.
Indeed. And talk to them, too (<b>*WINKWINKNUDGENUDGESAYNOMORE*</b>).
Oh yes, they are quite deaf on those boards, aren't they? Went so far as to say they purposely ignore the threads on the baords, preferring to instead glean opinions from a closed set of players who aren't active on the boards!
-----
Nemesis, esuna, you are correct - there are many valid cases of consumers having no idea what they want. Case in point is the Pontiac Aztek! It sold horribly despite Pontiac's attempt at tweaking design elements to suit customer requests. What turned out was an ugly mess of a half car half van that excelled in no area, and sold in no areas either.
But that doesn't mean all consumer complaints/comments/critiques should be ignored. Obviously there are smart players out there who can see the flaws in games sooner than normal young players can. And that's where Nil IQ stands - he sees the flaws, has ideas on how to fix them, but is frustrated that very possibly because of those young ignorant players, the developers no longer (or never have) listened to the community.
It appears the Planetside development team lost sight of their demographic. Sure, if you asked a ten year old about game content, you'd get " roller coasters and zombies and mummies and tanks and ice cream" for ideas. But if you're releasing a game for ten year olds, you'd be best to include roller coasters and zombies and mummies and tanks and ice cream. So if the community says "We want object A" <b>give</b> the community object A, especially if they're paying a monthly fee and lining your pocketbook! To ignore the community because "they're stupid" is to ignore your source of income.
That's the kind of thing i only expect to see in parody cartoons lol.
In the end the best way to balance is to make the game as you see fit but to also keep an open mind. This means you have to play the game from all angles (and sides in the case of the NC-loving Planetside) while still listening to the public. The key thing is to listen rather than implement or ignore. If someone says an idea like electric worms then sure you ignore it but if it's interesting, fits in with the world and <u>can be balanced including from those sides opposed to it</u> then it's worth testing. And you listen to the testers too, especially if they can back up things with numerics.
You'd think that was simple enough =P
I've never even played Planetside
This makes sure i never ever will
The I&S forums here is pretty much pointless, too many people just come in, sign up, make a suggestion that right out violates the FAQ, all because <i>that particular individual</i> thinks it would be cool
It's not "pointless" - it keeps that crap out of General Discussion. ^-^
Same thing goes there. I've seen some of the most retarded suggestions from betatesters as well as normal players. What really differentiates them?
When i used to play, though, i think it was the VS that i always found sorta-over-powered. Especially with the old lasher, and that ridiculous anti-air-MAX that would have you dead before you heard the warning.