Heard Of These Anti-cheats.. Do They Work?
gEarsHifter
Join Date: 2004-04-17 Member: 27985Members
Join Date: 2004-04-17 Member: 27985Members
<div class="IPBDescription">VAC Mod, C-D Mod</div> Well I've heard of the Cheating-Death Mod which does work I believe.. But I've also heard of something like the VAC Mod for NS?
Does that exist? and if it does.. does it work? .. and which one is better for servers?
Thanks!
Does that exist? and if it does.. does it work? .. and which one is better for servers?
Thanks!
Comments
Besides Cheating-Death now, what other Anti-Cheat mods are there out right now?
Cheating Death 3
VAC 0
also cheating asn't the main problem, most time you think the enemy is cheating because of lag spite or some kind of bug or some other thing. ...
C-D is by far the best anti-cheat software out there - VAC is good, but the problems it can cause are not worth it in my opinion.
the best form of anti-cheat is an experienced admin (by experienced i mean experienced in dealing with ACTUAL cheats, not people who have good aims...)
If a mistake is made on VAC you are banned from all VAC secure servers, cheating death will simply kick you till you remove the hack.
Cheating Death 3
VAC 0 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly VAC is downloaded to your PC and run locally to detect cheats, it is not just the server doing all of the work.
Secondly there have been no mistakes made by VAC for quite a while now. And IIRC people that had been detected by accident the last time VAC made a mistake were unbanned within hours.
Thirdly VAC has global bans so any scum caught on another server will not be able to come to your server rather than CD letting a cheater have as many goes as he wants. And you do realise that once cheaters are banned on VAC servers they try to get CD cheats because they cannot play on secure servers?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only reason I don't like VAC is I lost my original steam account till 2008 because I ran C-D on accident and left it on a VAC server. How lame. I even tried to explain it to the steam VAC people. C-D Wins <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which highlights another problem with CD. You have to put it on before you play a game but if you want to change servers you have to tab out and close CD. Pain in the arse. VAC has moved on since then with regards to banning:
"Running C-D and connecting to a VAC server won't get you banned." Nick Shaffner (VAC guy)
Unless I've been doing all this for no reason...and everyone else I know...
They're both good cheating detectors...But I think CD is better, because if a server is CDrequired, it also promotes a skilled environment, since new players and dumb players probably dont have a copy of CD running at all time...
Yea on most servers admins and players usally know who is hacking and stuff like that. Usally they will (The players) take demos and some screen shots and more details about them. And the admins watching the demo closely can see if they're really hacking. Usally works you just need to know what hacks in action look like. (Like that topic about videos of hacks in action). Most anti-cheat programs has a way around it.
Contact them again...
Use this...http://www.steampowered.com/troubleshooter/live/
It is at least worth a try, that or post on there boards at steampowered.com
VAC when enabled on NS will bring with it the list of cheaters from other mods, which means if you cheated and got banned in CS you can't play NS....which Is good in my opinion. VAC has very few false positives however there is concern that they don't catch everyone.
CD disables the ability to cheat, it is a client server program that is required on both sides of the connection. It does what is needed, in that it limits the cheats. It doesn't ban however. It is more of a not allow people cheat tool, rather than a if you cheat you are banned tool.
While both are good, I enjoy the security of VAC over CD, with CD you can try out cheats until you find one that works, with VAC you have to get a new Steam ID if the cheat you tried out gets detected. That is my opinion on the matter.
Cheating Death 3
VAC 0
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know that downloading security module thing? That's the VAC module downloading, it runs on your computer not remotely somehow. VAC features a generic WH block similar to C-Ds and has some generic detection methods, but because it must be sure it's banning a cheater it can't be very paranoid and ban for every little suspicious thing unlike C-D which is rather picky sometimes.
VAC actually bans people which means if they cheat anywhere and get caught they are no longer welcome in any VAC server, VAC for NS would keep out the people who got banned in any other MOD. With C-D cheaters can just try again until they find a cheat that works, with VAC they can't. In MODs that support VAC the majority of servers run it, where do you think people that get VAC banned go? Either they go to the store and get another copy or the play on servers without VAC, this means unprotected and C-D servers might have a higher population of ex-cheaters and scum than VAC.
This is not a black and white issue.
CS is full of them, I would guess 20% of the people playing CS have hacked once or twice (or always hack). I know someone who was in a top-10 clan who had previously hacked in CS, who is also a vet and a constie, does that mean he's a scumbag and should never play NS ever again? ...Hacking in CS is as common as scripting in NS.
I myself had my wonID banned from VAC servers because my brother in college hacked in CS...we have the same HL CD key.
Once I looked at a few message boards with VAC, I found out the "oh it was my brother" excuse is quite common, so I ended up having to wait the ban out...
Do hackers really need to be banned from everywhere? If you have a CDreq server, they aren't gonna come back (with hacks on at least)...Plus, good servers really have a choice to whether they want to blacklist the hackers or not. For instance, a server like Linuxmonster, or maybe one of the NSpug servers could easily blacklist a few steamIDs of hackers, they're popular enough.
In my opinion...VAC is automated, insufficient bannage, CD is better and more reliable
Are you kidding? VAC has loads of false positives. VAC will ban people for using HLAmp or for simply forgetting to turn Cheating Death off.
Are you kidding? VAC has loads of false positives. VAC will ban people for using HLAmp or for simply forgetting to turn Cheating Death off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I am not kidding, as of late they have very few false positives....
The instances you speak did happen in the past, there is no refuting that, any time there are instances like that, they take care of it.
Besides trolling these forums I also troll on Steampowered...lots of boards little time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CD is the only viable software solution for cheats until VAC comes along. We remain open-minded, but we'll likely continue to use CD when VAC comes along, and it's due to a reason someone has already touched on in this thread: on average, the intelligence and teamwork of players running Cheating Death is higher than that among players who do not run Cheating Death. We don't run CD to get rid of cheaters in NS. We run CD in an effort to maintain a quality playing environment. It's one more step that players have to go through to be on your server. No, it's not the fastest or most convenient path to gameplay, but we're not interested in catering to every player on the Internet. We want people who can figure out how to download and install and configure Cheating Death. Call it an intelligence filter.
Also mentioned in this thread is a strong admin presense, which we have. I can't speak with authority when it comes to "stopping" cheating, but our server is full every night, and I can't remember the last time we thought a cheater was among us, and we run CD with a strong admin presense. It works to our satisfaction.
In the interest of sharing information, I have read recently that VAC's bad reputation is becoming more baseless as time moves on. Apparently, the playerbase is beginning to moreso trust VAC. I don't know anything more than what I've read, but I doubt players would be feeding VAC compliments without merit considering how quick they've been to bash it in the past.
Best of luck with your server.
None of them honestly stop cheaters, all it will stop is the ocacional idiot who was to stupid to download a cheat that is actualy still undetected (and there are pleanty of them)
Heck, there is a cheat that sends off the same signal as CD (thus thelling the server you are cheat free).
The only anti cheat that is worth it's salt is a good admin team.
All anti cheats are one step behind (at best) the cheaters.
Combine that with the periodic false positives, frequent problems with mods (especialy NS), the inteferiance between each other etc.
And I just stay away from CD servers, or any other that requires a client side program.
VAC has had 2 known false positives EVER and these people where eventually unbanned.
It once banned HLAMP after an update, a while later they did a roll back on detections that could be due to HLAMP. On april 1st this year they banned a few thousand people and realised their misstake and unbanned them within an HOUR.
Cheating death has had methods to drop you from VAC servers for ages now. It detects that the server you are connecting to is running VAC and then sends drop and explains that you shouldn't attempt to connect to VAC servers with C-D on. I've accidentally connected to VAC servers 2-3 times with C-D on and I have used HLamp on VAC servers and never been banned.
VAC has this interesting method of detecting cheaters using previously undetected cheats and flagging them and NOT banning them for a few days. This means that when VAC has been updated to detect new cheats no one has any idea if which are detected. The problem is that VAC updates to rarely now(they did update it several times a week for a while)
Of course there are undetected cheats. However, if no anti-cheat software is being used, than anybody can do a Google search, click on the first link that shows up, and run every cheat they can find. Without anti-cheat software, that would probably be more common. With anti-cheat software, a cheater has to know what they are doing to get away with cheating, and that significantly cuts down on the group of people that can successfully cheat.
CS is full of them, I would guess 20% of the people playing CS have hacked once or twice (or always hack). I know someone who was in a top-10 clan who had previously hacked in CS, who is also a vet and a constie, does that mean he's a scumbag and should never play NS ever again? ...Hacking in CS is as common as scripting in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
erm... i'm sorry, but what do you base this on?
20% of CS players do / have hacked... 20% is a hell of a lot of people considering the immense size of the CS community
There are infact very few cheats... there are however incredible amounts of arrogant little boys who think they "r0x0r j00 b0x0r" (ie that they think they are gods gift to FPS games) and when they die, instead of going with the idea that they aren't as good as they thought, they just shout cheat. because of the nature of the majority of the players, every one else joins in, thus you get mass riots and when you pin one down and ask for proof, suddenly every one shuts up.....
the cheating in CS is more of a stigma (think that the right word) than an actual occurance... i've been playing online games for 5 years now - in all my time playing, i've only seen about 10 genuine cheaters - at least five of which were on Open Battle.net on Diablo 2
I've seen more then 10 SUPER OBVIOUS cheaters in CS alone and I don't play it much(speed hacks, no recoil+aimbot that jerks the screen like they have some kind of nerv disorder and is litterally stuck to people's heads before they fire, super blatant wallhackers that sit behind a box, aim carefully and shoot several people in a row right through the box, you know general griefers like that.).
I've seen only ever seen a few people who where trying to hide their cheat but at one point or another screwed up. Such as going AFK in marine spawn and smoothly aiming to and perfectly tracking aliens but not shooting as long as they where in the aimbots FOV and such as being super skilled and never missing until someone spectates and then playing as good as a monkey chewing the keyboard for as long as you spectate.
I have no idea how many people are using ESP or naughty player models but I think it's a much larger number than you suspect, it would be really hard to see if these people are cheating or not, VAC or C-D is much better than nothing, especially with the CS people who seem to consider no anti-cheat as an invitation to cheat as much as you want without it being even slighly immoral(I've seen many a person say things like this in the VAC section of the steam forum.)
Cd is keeping honest ppl honest, and dishonest ppl out of the servers (Im talkin CD req here, not CD opt) far better than VAC.
For NS i d expect the same (same engine anyway = same cheats) 1:5 (just a rough guess) ratio when Vac would be implementet. I dont have a clue of the ratio on NO-CD+NO-Vac servers.
but in general i think i see far less cheaters in NS than in any other Hl-Mod.
Might be the smaller advantage of aimbots (due to the unaccuracy of weaps and the hitbox-lag) / the availablilty of build in cheats (SoF / Motion tracker) or just the smaller but finer community <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards
Deagle