Combat Suggestions
Gelantious
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2576Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2576Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Remove CC and move spawn.</div> Remove the CC and place some indestructble sentrys there instead so Aliens cant spawnkill.
And move the Alien spawn to a "spawning-chamber" with a teleport or something so the aliens can gather a team before going into the hive chamber if the mariens have over runed it.
I'm getting real tired of getting killed half a millisec after I spawned.
And move the Alien spawn to a "spawning-chamber" with a teleport or something so the aliens can gather a team before going into the hive chamber if the mariens have over runed it.
I'm getting real tired of getting killed half a millisec after I spawned.
Comments
Basically Spawn camping is never going to stop. Theres nothing you can do about it. Spawning in a chamber? You can still get spawn killed when you leave. Spawning more than one at a time? If theres enough aliens or one really good one and terrible marines, you'll be spawn killed. Theres no reason to just sit there and let the people spawning kill you. It's utterly stupid. Whats even more stupid you ask? The people that whine about being spawn killed. I'm not going to merrily chew on the CC while you spawn and kill me, then heal the CC. WHOO THATS FUN!
i dont understand the whole remove cc thing and invincible turrets deal tho
maybe remove cc so aliens have to truly DEFEND?
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Timelimit.
This would turn the game into a true Attack/Defend style. It would remove ANY incentive for the marine team to camp, and would encourage the Kaharaa team TO camp, which is thier designed playstyles anyway.
It's not so much being attacked when you spawn, it's dying the INSTANT you come alive with virtually no chance of striking back.
Removing the CC will make khaara on the defensive, though their still blatantly overpowered. The only reason marines win is because they can kill so many underpowered skulks early game then get slaughtered by rigged fades of combat. (Focus, carapace, regen, meta)
It is not spawn camping when there are 2 skulks on the cc and the rest of the team is keeping the spawning rines off of the 2 skulks.
It is not spawn camping when rines attack spawning skulks and seiges are killing the hive (had to throw that one in, i know its a CO discussion)
anyway, in regards to the original post. That honestly doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
The CC should definitely be ditched. The only reason Flayra left it in is to let aliens end the game, but by the time they kill the CC the timer is usually almost up anyway. It won't kill marines to play for a couple more minutes. The CC's presence significantly weakens the marines' offensive capabilities because it's a vulnerability in the base that prevents them from leaving in full force. If it's damaged, they have to sacrifice time and players to weld it. Get rid of it and bring combat back to a true Attack/Defend game mode.
A wave spawn system like Cheezy's plugin is all we need to stop spawncamping. Sure the unlucky skulk will spawn in a shotgun's crosshairs once in a while, but anything that completely eliminates spawncamping(besides spawn invulnerability, which we already know is awful) isn't worth all the effort for so minimal a gain.
Indeed. Just because the CC is getting hit dosn't make it any more fun for that lone marine getting jumped by 3+ aliens.
Lose the CC, implement the Cheesy respawn (or at least something similar) and Combat would become fun again.
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Timelimit.
This would turn the game into a true Attack/Defend style. It would remove ANY incentive for the marine team to camp, and would encourage the Kaharaa team TO camp, which is thier designed playstyles anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well then what ultimately decides the timelimit? Right now, the timelimit is anywhere from 10 to 40 minutes, which is the most time I've ever seen it set. So, basically, the marines have that much time to kill the hive, and the aliens have no way of winning the game other than that? Yeah, that would suck.
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Do you realise how unhelpful comments like that are?
Think about it, even if everyone 'gets skill', one team is still gonna end up losing. The point is that being defeated should not have to involve enduring several minutes of spawn camping. Losing can be fun you know. Some of the best times ive had in classic have been making that final stand against hive 3 aliens.
There needs to be a system that keeps the losing side interested instead of **** off.
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I sorta agree, a few lvl3 JP/SG marines would be hard to hold off for a long time. Unless you had a gorge or two. But then you have less people to kill those JPs so they do more damage each run ect ect.
co originally had no cc, and a wave spawn system. It was more unbalanced then than it is now. ppl still complain/ed bout spawn camping with a wave spawn system.
can't fix anything by going back and forth. take this out, put it back, take it out, put it back. if i remember correctly, the cc is one of those things that went in and out during private beta testing, i wasn't involved in the beginning.
Removing the CC won't fix the problem - it will simply make marines go nuts with ramboing, as they won't have to do any actual base defending, not to mention the really boring spawn camping going on - instead of having half the enemy team killing CC and hald killing your spawning team memebers, you'll have the entire alien team killing your team members until the time runs out. The purpose behind CC is to avoid those kinds of endings, and those of you that didn't realize this just didn't think before posting.
As for those of you that seem to think that "marines aren't supposed to defend", I suggest going back to ns_ and reminding yourself that one of the most popular ways that alien win by is crushing the undefended marine base within 5 minutes from game start. If you forgot that, you definitely need to stop playing co_ for a while.
Spawncamping is a part of any strategic game. NS is a strategic game. Your solution would be to not allow the enemy to take control of the key position - and you own lack of skill is not a reason to nerf the other team.
<b>Adapt - don't whine.</b> No one likes whiners.
Removing the CC won't fix the problem - it will simply make marines go nuts with ramboing, as they won't have to do any actual base defending, not to mention the really boring spawn camping going on - instead of having half the enemy team killing CC and hald killing your spawning team memebers, you'll have the entire alien team killing your team members until the time runs out. The purpose behind CC is to avoid those kinds of endings, and those of you that didn't realize this just didn't think before posting.
As for those of you that seem to think that "marines aren't supposed to defend", I suggest going back to ns_ and reminding yourself that one of the most popular ways that alien win by is crushing the undefended marine base within 5 minutes from game start. If you forgot that, you definitely need to stop playing co_ for a while.
Spawncamping is a part of any strategic game. NS is a strategic game. Your solution would be to not allow the enemy to take control of the key position - and you own lack of skill is not a reason to nerf the other team.
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Ever played DoD? No spawncamping there. The spawn should be somewhere else than the room with the cc and somehow denied for the other team(barricades, automatic guns, you name it). Then put the DoD-style wave spawns and problem solved. No more spawncamping.
Ignoring the blatant fact that any half-assed-experienced player can spawn camp on many maps in DoD due to one-shot-one-kill weaponry (and I would know, I've played it since the original betas), would you like to suggest a quake-based spawn next - as in spawning in random scattered locations of the map? No spawncamping, guaranteed, just all out full assed fragfest - that some people seem to want to turn NS into lately.
Newsflash - NS is NOT AN FPS in a traditional sence. It has a HEAVY STRATEGIC ELEMENT which makes drawing comparinsons between NS and various pure fps games about as correct as drawing comparisons between NS and real time strategy games. I can almost see next player suggesting something among the line of making sure-fire weaponry like starcraft marines have, that would hit every time unless enemy is on higher ground or in umbra. Might sound absurd to any FPS fan, but that's a pretty natural thing in RTS. Which is why it's not really applicable in NS - just like experience from CS, DoD, Quake and numerous other FPS games is equally worthless in balancing NS (not to mention rather silly to even mention in a thread about balance, which assumes that you have EXTENSIVE experience with the game discussed).
In NS co_, your spawn site is your base. If you allow the enemy to take your base, you SHOULD lose. Enemy worked hard to take your base, and you had to **** up to let them succeed. This is NS equivalent of enemy team taking all flag points in DoD CTF maps. If you have a problem with this consept, you have a problem with entire NS concept. And no, rising from the ashes of sure loss that your enemy EARNED by sitting in a lamed up spawn is not an option in a good strategy game. Which is a part of NS, no matter how some people try to ignore it.
Can we agree that next poster will not think of balancing NS based on what they learned in DoD/Quake/Starcraft? Please? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Problem is the spawn rates are fkd up, as it takes an alien 5-10 seconds ta get back ta Marine spawn after it dies, I find this is the main inbalance for spawn camping.
As on the other side, it takes a marine 25-40 seconds to get back to Aliens spawn.
I dont see why people dont notice this.
With the spawn rate and one at a time spawning is really a joke, and has caused many spawn rushes and game overs or f4's as its just absurd.
Let people play the game, have fun, not wait 30 seconds to spawn and just get killed again. then wait another 30 seconds.
There are alot of fkd up things in NS. Devour for example...
Try not all dying at once. I've never had to wait 30 seconds to spawn unless the game is over ie. Aliens/Marines are all assaulting the CC/Hive.
1. There is no consideration for alien lifeforms in the spawning system. Onos are clearly overpowered when they respawn instantly, which is part of the reason they are kept from becoming the behemoths they need to be in NS. The solution is to make them the tanks they were but make them wait longer to respawn.
One method could be the slot system... 3 'slots' spawn at once... skulks/gorges/LMs are 1, lerks/fades/JPs/HAs are 2 and onos are 3. Then you could lengthen the spawn time to about twice what it is now. It would also solve most of the problem with spawn camping now: solo aliens with focus camping single spawn marines or solo marines with shotguns camping single spawn skulks.
2. Marines are built around mobility through structures. Turret farms keep out lone raiders and phase gates let you get back to the front lines quickly. In combat that is all lost so marines are inherently at a severe disadvantage. Like TugBoat said, it takes 10 seconds for an alien to get to the marine spawn, up to a 45 seconds for a marine to get to the alien spawn depending on loadout.
Its not an easy fix directly. The only direct fix would be 'check points' that the marines could take, their spawns/cc would shift to the new point and they would be closer to the hive. Of course the check points could be taken back by aliens and a forward post leaves the base open to two pronged attacks. The indirect fix is removing the CC... If marines don't need to be around the CC there is no need to stall.
3. Marines have always lacked a skill element. You can get much better playing aliens by learning how to blink/attack well and certain cloak tactics. Marine weapons are all based on mass/cross/indirect fire and so there is really nothing you can do but chug away on ammo and upgrades and hope for the best. Locational damage needs to be added I think, giving an extra say 20% damage for a headshot on an alien. Would put some of the non-noobs back on the marine teams too as there is suddenly some skill involved again. Right now bunny hopping and avoiding leaping skulks and lerks as a jetpack are all you can excel at and they aren't very helpful against a skilled alien team.
I think one solution to the CC issue, as I see it, would be to take out the experience that aliens get from chewing on the CC. That leaves the chair there so the game can be ended aside from the time limit, but removes the incentive that aliens have for chewing on it early game. I think the biggest reason aliens go after the chair early on is simple, easy upgrades. Why take on marines that shoot back, when you can chew on the chair, which doesn't fight back.
- Zues