Shotguns Vs Hmgs For Late Game
stubby
Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19416Members
Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19416Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Old Bullet Hose vs Boom Stick</div> I have noticed lately that the shotgun packs a bit more punch than I remember it having back in the old days of 2.0 and 1.4. Now, I noticed this most prevalently in combat, where using a lvl 3 shotgun over a lvl 2 HMG proved faaaar more effective against Fades and Oni (or whatever the decided plural of Onos is).
However, I have also noticed that there are almost no shotguns handed out at the end of classic games now, when the base is being over-run by Oni and Fades. First question is, is there a power difference between the guns in Combat and Classic? I didn't think that there was, but I haven't played enough lately to notice if it truly is or isn't.
If it isn't, then why aren't comms handing out a boomstick or two in the heavy tranes to handle the big creatures? A well placed set of shotgun shells to the flank of an Onos is almost a sure kill, unless there is some massive amount of gorge healers and carapace and all kinds of upgrades on it. Two sets from different angles is a sure thing, provided they both train there fire on the same creature.
Am I being completely illogical here? I realize that the hmg dishes out a lot of damage quickly, but when they are right on top of you, I prefer a shotgun any day of the week. So I make my claim that heavy tranes need to diversify there loadout, and pack the boomstick for the big beasties.
However, I have also noticed that there are almost no shotguns handed out at the end of classic games now, when the base is being over-run by Oni and Fades. First question is, is there a power difference between the guns in Combat and Classic? I didn't think that there was, but I haven't played enough lately to notice if it truly is or isn't.
If it isn't, then why aren't comms handing out a boomstick or two in the heavy tranes to handle the big creatures? A well placed set of shotgun shells to the flank of an Onos is almost a sure kill, unless there is some massive amount of gorge healers and carapace and all kinds of upgrades on it. Two sets from different angles is a sure thing, provided they both train there fire on the same creature.
Am I being completely illogical here? I realize that the hmg dishes out a lot of damage quickly, but when they are right on top of you, I prefer a shotgun any day of the week. So I make my claim that heavy tranes need to diversify there loadout, and pack the boomstick for the big beasties.
Comments
While an HMG is inaccurate, so is a shotgun. With a shotgun, you have the possibility that your shot will partially hit, especially at longer ranges, when some pellets nail the target and others don't.
Also, group HMGs can be nasty at long ranges, while group shotguns don't have quite the nasty reputation at those ranges.
It all depends on what you're shooting, and how many people you have shooting it.
Shotties can hamburger anything getting close, and if you've a good defense line then your HMGs at the rear can just snipe any incoming scuttler in safety, knowing that their shotty mates are up front pumping out spam.
Also its location dependent - an HA train down loooong corridors would probably benefit from HMGs more... but in close quarters you'll need GLs and Shotties because you won't have the luxury of a long shooting gallery.
another thing to remember is that you aren't always up against onos/fades - you get a LOT of skulks coming at Ha trains, and the HMG's are nice to rip through the skulks so you can keep those 8 crucial shotty shells for the big cows
On almost Every server I play on there is usually a minimum of 2 sg's in the group. Sg's are good for anything...absolutely anything. Take structures out in mere seconds...skulks become close to obsolete and fades tend to think twice about hitting you head on with more than one SGr in the group. Plus, a group of four SGrs hitting a hive at lvl3 weps can take the hive down in the first round of shots. the Shotgun is the best wepon in the rine arsenal, but of course you are right....you should have at least 2 SGs a couple HMGs and a good nader for those WOLs you encounter.
So yeah, I agree. I think the only thing that has a good chance is a Lerk or an onos...the Lerk just hangs back and the Onos, A smart Onos <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> , can soak it up to kill and devour. though I always like a good HMG for an onos. Of course it all depends on the skill levels of whom you are playing against, doesnt it always.
Man I ramble on too much....oh well...I just posted this much to agree with you lol. A good com will always give out a good mix of weapons for his team.
mainly also because i seem to get lucky. all the time. i turn, fire, and hit.
a fade it blinking out, i block him, close range boom stick babeh!
level 3 shotgun does 221 damage if all pellets hit, 12 shots to take down a 3 hive onos(non cara)
4 shots to take down a hive 3 fade(non cara)
Add a JP/SG to any HA/HMG rush, and let the rape begin
I'll take a level 2 HMG over a level 3 shotty vs. higher lifeforms any day. The number of shots it takes to down an onos with a shotty is insane, although the shotty is much more effective at KILLING fades, the HMG is much more effective at forcing them to retreat. And HMGs eat onos and lerks for breakfast.
That being said, when I'm commanding and I have alot of resources, I'll drop mostly HMGs, but I will drop several shotties and a GL or 2. (GL is for killing OCs) Basically, I also say that a mix is the best way to do it.
HMG is by far superior to the shotty.
shotgunners should make alien paste of anything that rushes up to them, hmg's engage long range targets. another shotgunner covering flanks and rear and a gl to take care of structures and provide supressing fire
HMGs are usually better if you can afford them, but the combined arms approach of two shotguns for every HMG works just as well too. The HMG holds enemies at arms length while the shotguns dispatch anything that makes it through the HMG spam, be it onos, fades, or cele skulks.
In Combat and early game Classic (which are similar), shotguns are useful because you are mostly facing low-level/low-hp creatures, which means skulks. If a skulk can get a bite or two you are pretty much dead unless you have armor upgrades...so it's best to take him out ASAP. A skulk a long way away is not much of a threat. In Combat this is even more important because all other upgrades hinge on your ability to survive early game (you can't even get an HMG until you HAVE a shotgon).
In Classic mid and endgame, HMGs actually have a tactical purpose that is not even present in Combat (or at least only to a very minor extent): covering fire. With HMGs your group can be partitioned into people who can defend at long range, and those that can stand and build. Since there is no building in Classic, HMG loses its appeal here.
I know for a lot of my friends they tend to aim suddenly and rather unsmoothly, accurate, but no good for an HMG. Their playstyle is more conducive to a shotgun, where you are given a bit to re-aim. I try to be more smooth however and 'lock on' to a target, attempting to emulate an aimbot. For my playstyle a heavy machine gun is more effective.
When you start dealing with clanplay however, it is really situation-dependant. A heavy machine gun will take out that Fade blinking away in an open room, while a few well placed shotties will eliminate a Fade if he blinks into a confined space. For Oni I find a HMG more effective because they fire for a longer time and are capable of more damage providing they live for those extra moments. Oni are slow so if you begin shooting while one is far away then you should finish your clip by the time it gets to you. Shotguns just cant do that long range situation, but make up for it with a massive amount of damage in a short time close-range.
Verdict is: DEPENDS!
Combat is where it all goes a bit funny though..... thats where the real HMG/SG debate is.
Oh well, I'm not gonna complain if things are dying, but I do think it comes down to the playstyle of the wielder in terms of the effectiveness of it. Still think that a group should have a shottie or two as well as a gl to balance out the attack instead of just all hmgs.
yup
that's the point of diversification. you need those shotties for structures, unless you got a good gler or two. and anyway shotties dispatch ankle-biting skulks quicker than hmgs.
You're kidding, right?
Skulks and lerks are one-shot kills each with shotties.
Good luck hitting a retreating, dodging lerk with an hmg, and up close the shotty simply is more accurate at hitting such a small, quick lifeform.
And on the other side, I'd much rather go up against an LA/HMG than an LA/Shotty. The HA, they have to hold on you for a bit. The shotgun they only need to get lucky once.
HMGs work better than shotguns when in large numbers. This is why they're used more in classic endgames: by this time, you're not just handing things out here and there to your star players, you're suiting up the whole team.
the shotgun is also lighter, so when you have a JP you can go further/faster
And i think the HMG is overpowered, and i just don't like it
The 'all at once' damage of the shotty really is the main factor for me
Since when was a weapon weigth system employed in NS?