What Am I Doing Wrong?

waller · May 2004

Ok well today i hopped into the comm chair on eclipse.

I started off by getting my 5-7 rines to build a IP, then i sent them straight to horseshoe, cap the RT then rush to maint hive.

I got phase and locked Maint down with a tf. (This is a whole new topic open for discussion so please don't knock me on it)

**Durning this time i was building **** in base ect ect...**

I then Started heading for SouthLoop ALL my rines got owned and spawned back.

I handed out a few sg's and pushed for it again. Then heard my Res tower at the horseshoe was under attack, so i pulled my rines outta south loop and rushed back to horse, however it was to late.

Almost as soon as this happened a few fades, ransacked Maint and owned it.
After a short while i found myself with no res nodes. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /> and was pushing for MS within no time.

After the game was finished and we were in RR the whole rine team was blaming me, from what i've said can anyone see what i could've done Better/Differently??

Niteowl · May 2004

first off, congrats on having the foresight to look on ways to improve, instead of just letting the loss (and the poor marine behavior, ragging the comm) get ya down <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

a few questions:
-how big was the server?
-which hive did they have?

a few points:
-seems you had far too many ppl moving together. you don't really need 7 ppl to build an rt. much better to have 2 groups capping rts willy nilly.
-there didn't seem to be any pressure at all on their nodes? did you take any down?
-it's better to have a forward base in a central area(computer core) where you can project your force on many key points, rather than some forward base in the boonies (maintenance).
-how much did you lock down maint? the time and resources you spent there could have cost you the game.
-what did they have in sloop that cut you down? ocs, gorges, skulks? if so, you should have pulled back immediately (beacon is a good way) to deny the aliens RFK, and tried a new route.
-what upgrades did your rines have.
-what gametime did you start pressuring them (hitting sloop). i like to start towards a hive around 4:30, 5 minute game time.

DC_Darkling · May 2004

use that observatory, beacon indeed.
also if something is attacked..SCAN. you know what is attacking, if rines look @ map they know, and scan again when they get close.

push RTs indeed. rine res works better. if you live on 1 rt, then they 2. starve them deep.

push.. push..push. never aim for the skulk, get the fatty. its 10 res, skulk is free (spawning)

so tell them that when comming. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Lito · May 2004

well the whole gorge thing is up to debate...Should I kill the gorge and make them waste the 10 res...or should i leave it so that its one less skulk to deal with?

Firewater · May 2004

Its about effiency, 7 people building an IP is unneccseary, 2 people can build it by the time the first conflict starts. Split them up into groups of 3-2-2. Search for the hive, then base your capping off of where the hive is. The objective is to keep the nodes are closest to you and as far away from them as possible. Send 3 to pressure their hive right away (most pub players can't handle pressure, they wait for the build up). Maybe even spawn camp if you get close enough, and send the other 2 squads to cap nodes. If you can keep them pinned in their base, that would be good, but its not neccesary in the early game. Try to cap like about 4 nodes and tech while you cap. I recommend getting the arms lab right away because allows for that crucial armor1 upgrade. After you cap nodes, scan the hives for any activity, and then begin hunting their nodes, AND attack the hive at the same time. Most of the time in a pub if you attack the hive and nodes, they will save the hive, and totally forget about the nodes. Keep teching and try to get a phase gate close to the hive, with mines. Then either siege or shotgun rush it. It is key whenever to play aliens to breakdown their nodes, because it is tougher for aliens to get nodes, then it is for marines. Cripple their economy, then you shouldn't have a problem winning.

silverace · May 2004

I say go for the gorge. Sure you could kill the skulk, but it's free to respawn, while they have to waste another 10 res if they lose a gorge. That 10 res lost could be deadly early on since resource flow is very slow. By then it might be too late to put up that critical chamber.

kiwi · May 2004

just go for the kill. any lifeform killed gives rfk and increases the spawn line

a big part of wining games is keeping the enemys spawn line long so they dont have as many things running around attacking or gaurding rts

waller · May 2004

Ok i had 7 Members on my team, 8 including moi.

And what i write there was very short. we had around 4 rt's constant in the game. then when we pushed for sloop. bam, they started hitting all my rt's. i didn't know what to do =/

They where down in EC i had Maint.
(i got HorseShoe then went straight to hive with little res )

Then as soon as a i tryed to keep on the pressure they seemed to hit all my rt's at once.(No this was not planned)

And my final point about the moving together. I thought this would be best as the IP built fast as Sh*t along with the OBS, this giving me alotta time to move on and pressure there gorges/hives.
Are you saying it's best to run around willy nilly?

P.S oh yeah i forgot, one more thingymajigure i started hitting loop about 5-7 mins into game. It's hard to remember this was two - three days ago now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

I think thats all things answered and a good summary of the game.
Any more advice ect... on how i could of imporved it?

Niteowl · May 2004

When they start hitting all your rts, it's a choice. i prefer to put pressure on them. if they continue on munching your rts, you can gain a siegable position. that's much more valuable. you can always send a team of 2 to recap (and you should) rts.

one of the main mistakes you made was taking a hive that they didn't need, maint. if they have maint or eclipse, you should almsot always take computer core (if you insist on locking a hive).

in general, do not go right to doing something that costs lots of res without dropping and building a good number of rts, say, 3 or so.

it's about trading, you had to trade your rts for a good posiiton. sometimes the skulks will get off your rts, and try and push you back (as their teammates are prolly yelling at them)

what i'm saying is it's best to have multiple teams capping multiple rts, as WELL as PRESSURING/TAKING DOWN their rts. that's quite critical.

so, in summary, yes you made a few mistakes
-taking a hive that wasn't going to be in contention
-doing a rez intensive thing without capping lots of rts first
-not attacking or pressuring their rts
-not setting up a forward base closer to their goals (Compcore)
-not being willing to sacrifice your rts for a good position.

but it's no biggie, this is the best way to learn. hope you improve and learn from each game, and best of luck in your future comming.

Iron_Maiden · May 2004

I ll give you an advice (I m not comm though..)
Marines dont have to co-exist with aliens. Your team should always be annoying and harrasing their RTs and hives .
I think that you should use 2 or 3 groups of marines (2 arent as powerfull as 7 , but they can get more RTs ). Also you have to be as quick as you can in the early game , because while your marine are building 1 or 2 RTS , there must be half alien team building their own

stealthgerbil · May 2004

Also, I'm assuming that you were on a 16 player server.
If you were to have two groups of rines capping RTs and one group harrasing, the aliens will have to split up their players. And considering that 2-3 of them will be gorge ( on a pub), theres only 5-6 skulks. thats not enough to effectivly stop you from advancing.

Sandstorm · May 2004

To me, it sounds like your team was too slow. Generally, experienced marines will hit the ground running to capture RTs before the commander hits the chair. The earlier you capture RTs, the more resources you have.

Hives are much more valuable than RTs. If they insist on attacking your RTs just take out their hives. It also takes a lot less time for you to rebuild those RTs than it does for the aliens to rebuild their hive.

This reminds me of one game I commanded on ns_nothing, where we were attacking their Viaduct hive. They already had Powersilo built, but I had Cargo locked down. We killed off Viaduct, but a couple of Onos destroyed my base at Generator, as I had previously lost MS to a skulk rush, and eventually moved on to free Cargo. It looked bleak, as most of our RTs were down and we lost our advanced armory, with only our newly built base at Viaduct left.

I had been saving up for last hive tech rush. I had decided earlier to drop a prototype lab at Viaduct instead of Generator, since most of the marines were already there. Our resources were limited, so we had no choice but to jetpack/shotty rush the Powersilo hive. A couple of Onos were on their way to Viaduct, but the jetpackers easily took them out. Eventually most everyone got a jetpack and rushed Powersilo, taking it out despite all the OCs. They then turned around and flew across the level to the building cargo hive, and took that out, winning the game.

Licho · May 2004

- what upgrades did you have?
upgrades are best investment early on

- why did you lock MA? CC is more important and some PG early in MA is useless not speaking about turrets, you don't need 1 hive, you need 2, and middle hive is more easy for aliens, so there you should concentrate

- 8 mins into game is way too late for som sloop push! At this time aliens usually have 2nd hive and have fades for sure. To deal with fades you need either HA (=excess res early) or pressure on hive, where fades are more likely to die. So at that time you should have pressured on of their 2 hives. (Even sneaky EC PG would do the job..)

Eclipse is fairly easy map for marines, and with decent upgrades marines can usually hold skulks back in 1 hive..

Church · May 2004

Very good aliens have fades by 4 minute. IF you're going ot lock down hives. Try ot have them both locked down by the 5 minute mark.

MArine RTs worth less than ALIEN RTS. Take down theirs at all costs and delay their fades. As long as they only have skulks, your marines (with some upgrades) should own them.

waller · May 2004

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> Ok thanks alot, i'll try this next time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

NukeAJS · May 2004

If the skulk is threatening (running along your team mate's feet) go for the skulk because each kill he gets gives him res, lowers your chance of surviving, and damages you/team mates (making future attacks guranteed kills).

True, a dead gorge is 10 res down the drain for him to re-evolve, possibly 20 if he just evolved into a gorge. In my opinion, more marines = more kills = more res for you = less res for them. More kills because it should be obvious that four guns will get you more kills than two.

As for what you did wrong it seems simple to me. Your forces were clumped too much and you needed to have beacon if that was your strategy. If you are going to have all your marines move as one big unit (I don't recommend it because of wasted ammo on FF) you absolutely need beacon, period.

You might want to try seperating your forces. I find two or three squads are very effective most of the time. One squad merely builds a forward base then goes to pester the aliens (sometimes it can be effective to have ALL marines build the forward base, then divide) while the rest of the squads secure resources and then attempt to sabotage the enemies (while protecting their own).

What Am I Doing Wrong?

Comments