Natural-selection Development
Swirl1
Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28041Members
Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28041Members
<div class="IPBDescription">read</div> Any information when the next patch will be released to really address the issues that are plagueing NS? We were playing beta 3 for about 2 months, yet none of the big issues that were talked about on the forums / irc have been addressed in beta4.The lack of taking veteran player's (note: players who spend the most time with this game, knows how it works and further more know what needs to be fixed) advice is seriously hurting this game.
Beta 4, as i am concerned, is a mapchange patch (and a poor one at that, buggy vents / textures any1?) which isnt even an attempt to solve the more important issues at hand. Issues such as:
- Crouching fade hitboxes.
- Sparking.
- Skulk bites not registering.
- Laggy hitboxes
<span style='color:yellow'>EDIT: I said not to get personal. You don't know Flayra's or any of the devs minds so don't presume to tell us what we think or do or don't do. - joev</span>
When i first saw the changelog, i was surprised (as many were) that some of the stuff that has been hindering ns for so long now, wasn't even mentioned in the log. It became evident that the developers have either lost sync with whats going on, or quite frankly do not care anymore about the demand for updates to the game.
Yes, NS currently is in a public beta phase of testing, but that means that the game should be getting the attention it deserves from the devs, and that you guys should embrace this oppertunity as well by frequently updating the game, listening to the experienced players, and ultimitely create an enviroment where the community can feel at peace that they are not being left out of any descisions being made in the proccess of changing the game for the better.
<span style='color:yellow'>EDIT: And again. If you don't know how to critique a *process* then perhaps you should leave it to people with better language skills. - joev</span>
Thanks for reading.
Beta 4, as i am concerned, is a mapchange patch (and a poor one at that, buggy vents / textures any1?) which isnt even an attempt to solve the more important issues at hand. Issues such as:
- Crouching fade hitboxes.
- Sparking.
- Skulk bites not registering.
- Laggy hitboxes
<span style='color:yellow'>EDIT: I said not to get personal. You don't know Flayra's or any of the devs minds so don't presume to tell us what we think or do or don't do. - joev</span>
When i first saw the changelog, i was surprised (as many were) that some of the stuff that has been hindering ns for so long now, wasn't even mentioned in the log. It became evident that the developers have either lost sync with whats going on, or quite frankly do not care anymore about the demand for updates to the game.
Yes, NS currently is in a public beta phase of testing, but that means that the game should be getting the attention it deserves from the devs, and that you guys should embrace this oppertunity as well by frequently updating the game, listening to the experienced players, and ultimitely create an enviroment where the community can feel at peace that they are not being left out of any descisions being made in the proccess of changing the game for the better.
<span style='color:yellow'>EDIT: And again. If you don't know how to critique a *process* then perhaps you should leave it to people with better language skills. - joev</span>
Thanks for reading.
Comments
There was another topic somewhat like this and it got locked. I'm glad more people feel the same way.
Just be aware when you post that Flayra is ignoring the community that it is impossible to simply read all the posts that get posted in this forum - let alone read them and have time left to improve NS. Also realise that Flayra is trying to get his independant gaming company off the ground, and he is trying to resolve this obvious burden on his time by bringing another programmer into the fold (see front page)
It would be nice if there was more feeling that Flayra is paying attention to people's concerns - but there is not enough time in the day to fix major bugs, fix minor bugs, do balance tweaks, start a gaming company, hire a programmer, and also check PMs, emails and read the forums. I think that Flayra is doing an admirable job.
Also realise, this is a free mod with no professional paid staff to back it up (other than Flayra, of course).
-Parallax
Its a very good idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think some mods and admins already do that to a certain extent. On the other hand, I dont know who we can trust to voice our 'concerns' well.
The thing about Flayra not listening to our complaints lately probably has to do with him forming a company and probably moving about. So hopefully, this would be a temporary thing.
On a semi-off topic note, I think the 'BUS' that they are working on is a big stat (win/loss/rescount/kills/evo's/etc) taking program. He has dropped several hints of making changes after getting stats that will be available "soonish". Hopefully, once this thing is online, he can make changes based on stats that we can see.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe these issues ARE being worked on, but didn't make it into the B4 patch? It's been quite a while since our last upgrade, perhaps he wanted to get some things out there to keep it fresh? Does anyone consider that maybe, just maybe the issues they clamor about are not finished yet?
Sure, this is a small patch, mostly made up of map fixes, a few bug repairs, and some mostly minor gameplay tweaks. So rather than jumping to the foolish conclusion that Flayra has stopped paying attention to us, why not consider that there's a legitimate reason for the way things are? Little things like starting his own company, or how about the BUS? Did anyone consider that it might just "change the way you play NS", just like he said? Could something so drastic account for many of the concerns we have? Certainly.
All of you who are whining about being ignored, have some freaking patience. If the things you want to happen are so important, they'll happen. And if not, maybe you should think about WHY instead of complaining that he's ignoring you, the one voice out of the entire population of MONGOLIA.
</rant>
And who are these veteran players, if I may ask? (I get the feeling you're talking about people with veteran tags specifically).
fade hitbox is bugged when crouched cuz they have to fit in vents.
the rest are netcode issues..which are hard to reprodude consistantly and diagnose. and i donty know how much can actaully be fixed. ns is mod remember tied to the limits of the halflife engine.
Also, in their defense, some past patches have had too many changes and people complained that we was trying too many things too fast. Now he tweaks it in smaller changes, and people cry not enough. Give the team credit.
The only issue I take with waiting to release changelogs, etc... for "hype" is that people can identify other issues not included that might be added. I know the annoying pre release arguments about how unbalanced, messed up the game will be are annoying, but if the dev team could at least increase communication with the community, it would gain more suppport (and actually, I want ot thank XP-Cagey and joev for doing this more, I'm just sorry it's being spent defending positions from complaints/trolls instead of positive communication from the community). I am concerned with the future of NS, and I miss the epic battles and such, but I'm not asking to go back to what it was. Instead, I'd just like for Flayra and the team to state what they think about the current version, what's they'd like to see more, and where they're going. I don't want to tell Flayra where HIS game should go, I just want to hear him tell me where he's taking it.
Firstly I am sick to my back teeth with people telling me, Flayra, Karl and all the other people who work on NS development what we are thinking and doing.
Do not presume that your *assumptions* are *truth* just because you see it that way.
In fact, in this case you couldn't be further from the truth.
In no game/mod/whatever have I ever seen a developer who spends so much time and effort sifting through the feedback from players and quite literally spending hours and hours watching demo's and HLTV'ed matches as Flayra does.
Between beta 3 and beta 4, Flayra had a holiday. It was his first vacation in 2 and a half years. In those 2 and a half years he has been, quite literally, stuck in front of a computer day in and day out working on this amazing game which he gives to you ungrateful, spoiled brats for <b>FREE</b>.
When he got back from his holiday, ok, it took him a few days to get back into it... if you're a working joe, you'll easily empathise there...
At the same time, I was supposed to be getting really cracking on BUS. But guess what... my fiancee was diagnosed with breast cancer, so, to be honest, NS dropped way down my priority list and has stayed there.
Luckily Karl (XP-Cagey) was coming on board and he stepped into the breach (saving my butt). For the last 3-4 weeks, he and Flayra have been burning the candle at both ends to get beta4 ready.
Yes, we know it doesn't seem like a huge leap forward, but you people who are complaining quite literally have no idea how much work can go into a seemingly trivial change. There is a lot of work gone into beta4 and we are aware that there is a ways to go yet. But then, NS has never been about rushing things... we have always strived to get it right, rather than get it done fast.
Long time community members will know this of old. ("When will 1.0 be released? When it's ready!")
So, to those of you who have patience and understanding, speaking only for myself, I say thank you for your patience and I'm grateful for your understanding.
To the others, please learn to have patience and your life (and mine) will be a lot calmer. All things will come good in time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
joev.
P.S. I'm speaking only for myself above and noone else. If you want Flayra's or any other dev's opinion then ask them. I wouldn't begin to presume to speak for them and I know them quite well... <i>some</i> of you would do well to take note.
some people tend to forget that flayra and the complete team of ns-developers are just humans, not robots <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and that the former strategy of "when its done" worked is shown in the ever growing number of players since the first release
there have always been problems and there have always been people who thought flayra ignored them, but look at it now to what ns has become
personally i find it amazing
<3 ns and the dev team <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Getting the hint?</span>
Also, my deepest consolations to you and your fiancee, as well as my belated congrats on the whole marriage thing.
Lastly, props to Nemesis Zero for being an awesome moderator. You posess the kind of power I only dream of, good sir.
But fortunately, beta 4 was announced, and released, and I felt the community comming to live again. the constellation forum is now active again, and the bug database is buzzing with activity. So I would like to thank you for restoring my faith in the progress of NS. I can see you are all doing a great job, and you have answered what happened in the 'dark period'.
I know it can sometimes be hard to keep the same high level of enthusiasm, but overall the NS-team is doing a very good job, and I want to thank them for that.