Take Healing/welding Out Of Combat

ZinC

The *only* reason combat games take so long is because of hive healing and comm welding.

So far playing in beta4 the new spawning system has made very little difference as far as ive seen - the problem is still that it takes too long to kill the hive or cc. Playing on a 7v7 server with 2 gorges constantly healing the hive makes it pretty much impervious to any attacks save a full out storm by allmost all of the marine players. Similarly its easy for all the marines to get a welder and give the comm a weld, drawing games out immensly (ive played 90+ minute b4 combat games.)

Removing any ability to regenerate the hives or the comm chairs health would (obviously) speed up the games and do a better job at placing emphasis on aliens defending/marines attacking in the early game than the trickle of alien xp.

Swirl1

listen to the man.

hes got a point.

Buggy

Yep.

But then, I reckon they should fiddle with the chair/hive hp value, seeing as a comm chair can be a tad harder to do damage on than your average jp shotgun can do to a hive...no?

Zek

Yes, Buggy, but the hive already has some small natural regen and if that becomes a problem we can raise it back up to where it was before Gorges were reintroduced. I agree completely that getting rid of the objective healing is the best way to shorten combat games without massively slowing them down in pace(as adding in huge queue lines has done). We could then fiddle with the spawn rates some more to counterbalance it to a good degree; I'm thinking that the old entire-team wave spawns could work here.

Swirl1

yeah, and the hive healing itself must then be removed as well. Not combat fan myself, but it has potential. Normal ns is where the game's strength still lies imo :)

-edit: I would love to see a DOD like spawnsystem added to combat.

Zek

No, the hive needs some base regen to compensate for the fact that a marine only has to reach the doorway to start damaging it... When Gorges were out and the hive had semi-decent regen, the only stalemates that really occurred were marines on defense due to the welder.

Beer_Goggles

On the combat server I play (9v9), most games don't last more then 20 minutes. If they do, the map is angst, because angst is a horrible map with huge, 40-60 minute stalemates. At least, that was beta 3.

The new spawning system has made a HUGE difference, are you kidding me? Aliens win in 2 minutes, or 5 minutes if marines camp (yes, marines HAVE to camp in order to level, or they'll just go attack the hive, all die, and then get spawn camped), and get shotguns. By that time, however, the aliens have a fade or two, and then it's all over.

I do think, however, that it might be interesting to take out healing and welders. The only reason people would go gorge, if not to heal, which would be their first reason, would be to web. Web would all of a sudden be <i>much</i> less painful because, I would think, not many people are willing to go gorge <i>just</i> for web, which is only what a gorge would then be useful for.

ZinC

I think the question here is how long exactly the ideal combat game is supposed to last. Combat was initially intended to be short and sweet - 20 minute games are definately not this.

I would go so far as to say that any combat game over 10 minutes is too long , mainly because by that time most players are at or near lvl10. The leveling system is central to combat, and as soon as the level cap is hit bang goes 80% pf the game modes premise.

The first few minutes of combat are great: its a tense battle for experience and a tug of war between the two bases (though more recently its more like marines trying frantically just to push out of base) in which you do your best to get to the level where you can start using better upgrades to dominate and do some damage to the cc/hive. As soon as you spend more than 5 minutes at level 10 tho the game becomes, in most cases, stale: theres no real further sense of achievement at getting kills and thanks to support players healing or welding you dont really feel like your dooing significant damage to the enemy.

In the early days of 3.0, before gorges were added the games were fast and intense - you (or atleast I anyway) didnt reach lvl10 before the game ended unless you really played your heart out. Admittedly there were still long games then, but atleast they werent the norm and spawn raping as I recall was not a huge issue.

I'm of a mind that the 1 at a time spawn in is a bit of a cop out in terms of shortening game length, sure it does the job in a few games, but it does it for the wrong reasons: A given side should win based on the merits of the players involved and strategies used, not because the other team simply cant get to the battlefield.

Rabid_Baboon

Hive and cc healing should be removed and/or having unlimited levels, would make a difference as well. I have played to many games where the marines just sit in base welding and leveling, very boring.

Ballisto

How about you make it so that only one person can weld/gorge at a time? Any more don't have an effect.

Actually it would be better to make it taper off with more people. 1 person, 2/3 the max welding. 2 people, 2/3 + 1/4. 3 people... you get the idea.