Ns_bast Feedback

Mendasp · April 2004

I hope you liked our bast remake. It had some res changes, so I hope it's a bit more fair for marines (aliens still dominate, but a bit less <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />). It took us some time to be able to reduce the entity count to accomodate to the 3.0 limits, so we haven't been able to do layout changes to balance the map.

Post here your thoughts about bast, any bugs you found, proposed changes (visual and gameplay), etc.

Here is our (first) proposed layout change:

<img src='http://mrben.thezazi.net/images/omghax.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

tjosan · April 2004

The moving of res spots around refinery hive. I must say I'm not very fond of the new place of the data-bank res. It makes refinery that much worse as the alien team. You can hang on the ladders and shoot the res in it's current position. The only redeeming point of refinery was the easy access to three resource towers. Still, it doesnt mean that much since refinery still is certain death.

About the proposed changes, does that new vent between MS and engine corridor join with the vent to MS? If so, argh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Other than that, the map has a great feeling, and although I think feedwater hive is a tad bit too green, the new layout is a huge improvement.

Mendasp · April 2004

The problem there is that the aliens have access to too much res if they get Refinery or Feedwater, and if they spawn in Engine, they get just one and marines can siege their hive in like 5 minutes...

And the res was moved to avoid Databank Access from being the initial res <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Buggy · April 2004

Its the #1 athmospheric map for me. The gameplay isnt the best ever, but i dont mind really.

Spacer · April 2004

i think the map is perfect to be honest, its just now we're used to well lit fighting areas as marines (ns_eclipse/veil, and a few co maps). There's no real dark maps with the exception of nothing and nancy. I think the marine-bias is just basicly because we're not used to dark maps any more. But i must say, excellent job on the map overall, the changes'll just take some getting used to

Kouji_San · April 2004

(1/3)
Some stuck issues in the engine hive for for all forms of life in NS (onos not included in picture 1 and 3)

The red wireframe in this picture is the part trough which one can't move in the direction of the arrow, close to the wall its logical the player can't move in the direction of the arrow. But further away from wall it looks like the player can move . Pretty annoying trying to dodge marine bullets only to get stuck

Kouji_San · April 2004

(2/3)
Something is there but I cannot see it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Kouji_San · April 2004

(3/3)
Same problem as picture 1

Umbraed_Monkey · April 2004

-I dont remember being able to slip myself in the gaps in the spinning door thus killing myself. Im not sure if this would be an ingame issue (i did it just to see if i can), Im just telling you

-Drill shaft electric arcs are not there

-perhaps speed up the elevator from main aft to the place near tram? I mean, give people a reason to use it. Most people now either jump/slide or use the ladder.

-the button on the engine side of the main aft door (the one that flips up) doesnt work

good work on the remake <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

ssjyoda · April 2004

the lighting still needs lots of work. I do not remember the original being as colorful, or the gamma being as high.

Turkey2 · April 2004

I noticed the small obstruction in the vent on the marine start side of engine right next to the hive. It's on the right side of the vent or on the left if you are leaving engine going out. The revolving door is still bugged the first time you try to activate it every game, this became a problem in 2.0 and I'm kinda surprised it wasn't fixed in the remake. Other than that the moving of the res nodes really helped the balance a bit. Oh wait yeah I had a comm say that he couldnt place the node between main aft and refinery at the bottom of the slope, though I havent tested this myself.

Mendasp · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Turkey22 @ Apr 25 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Oh wait yeah I had a comm say that he couldnt place the node between main aft and refinery at the bottom of the slope, though I havent tested this myself. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
About the res node; we haven't had problems with the new node, but we'll look if we can fix it.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Apr 25 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>-Drill shaft electric arcs are not there</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
They weren't on 2.0, so they aren't on the remake, either.

And, Kouji, thanks, we'll fix that ASAP. Btw, we are using -cliptype precise... so that's quite strange.

Re: Speeding up the elevator. It can lead to problems like players dieing by no apparent reason, but we will try.

Also, the button on engine that isn't working, you have to use it looking down a bit more, and... it's fixed already.

0verpowering · April 2004

Im not sure what the area is called, inbetween double and feedwater hive (steam production?), anyways, there are those furnace things that you used to be able to hit and they would blow up, however i tried that and got killed by it D: I dont know if that was intentional but i liked it better when you didnt die <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

Other then that, great job on the map.

Umbraed_Monkey · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Apr 25 2004, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> They weren't on 2.0, so they aren't on the remake, either.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

well, when youre done the remake and you got spare <weird HL-jargon> leftover, consider putting em back in. They were nice and hypnotic <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

0verpowering: lol?

Quietstorm · April 2004

I love how the map turned out, however I dont like the new speed of the rotating door <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> Like others have said, I love the feeling of suspense while the door slowly opened up. Could ya slow it down a bit? And the tunnels underwater look sorta...Odd imo...But other than that the map looks and feels awesome. Great atmosphere and just the right elements to pull a ns_ map together to kick some major @#$. I thank you and your team for giving us back such a great map (It was one of the first maps I ever played on NS <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> )

Mendasp · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (QuIEtStoRM @ Apr 25 2004, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I love how the map turned out, however I dont like the new speed of the rotating door. Like others have said, I love the feeling of suspense while the door slowly opened up. Could ya slow it down a bit? And the tunnels underwater look sorta...Odd imo...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If we get more complaints about the door speed, we will change it. And, what's wrong with the underwater tunnels? If you explain it a bit more, we could fix it... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Apr 25 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Apr 25 2004, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> They weren't on 2.0, so they aren't on the remake, either. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

well, when youre done the remake and you got spare <weird HL-jargon> leftover, consider putting em back in. They were nice and hypnotic <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If we can optimize the entity count even more, we will put them back. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

crypt · April 2004

There is one great bug I have to complain about. As a rine you can swim inside the the feedwater hive! There you are nearly invictible. A guy has done thin in pcw against us and nearly knifed the hive down (we used para and heathspray to kill him... really annoying :/

Xale · April 2004

The big problems :

1rst engine :
Like "maintenance" in eclipse, and like "ventilation in origin" : onos has only one way, skulk are defenceless

2nd Marine start :
the CC place looks great !

the elevator is use-less, remove it, change it, or make the MS's floor low

The swivel is a big problem too. Anyone want hes destruction, so let's destruc him.
See atached image...
And, for less bug, remove the ground of the swivel (like a REAL swivel)

Guspaz · April 2004

About putting the vents behind the second (unusable) airlock outside of marine start...

I've always secretly hoped that eventually another room would be put back there and the second airlock would become usable. Those vents (unless they were to run at a higher altitude than the airlock, which is certainly possible) would seem to preclude the addition of future expansions there.

Cr-ck · April 2004

I love the new bast but i get stuck as a marine alot in engine room.

The most common place i get stuck is Kouji San's picture 2

Mendasp · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guspaz @ Apr 25 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> About putting the vents behind the second (unusable) airlock outside of marine start...

I've always secretly hoped that eventually another room would be put back there and the second airlock would become usable. Those vents (unless they were to run at a higher altitude than the airlock, which is certainly possible) would seem to preclude the addition of future expansions there.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
We would use the unused vent on the other side, seems more appropiate.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xale @ Apr 25 2004, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1rst engine :
Like "maintenance" in eclipse, and like "ventilation in origin" : onos has only one way, skulk are defenceless

2nd Marine start :

the elevator is use-less, remove it, change it, or make the MS's floor low
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
We know the engine problems, we just didn't have time to move the hive and add a second exit for it.

Well, the elevator makes the marines able to get into the vents, so they aren't all that useless <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crypt @ Apr 25 2004, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>There is one great bug I have to complain about. As a rine you can swim inside the the feedwater hive! There you are nearly invictible. A guy has done thin in pcw against us and nearly knifed the hive down (we used para and heathspray to kill him... really annoying :/</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
repro steps?

hidden_snper · April 2004

Excellent map! I am really gald to see mappers actually talking to the gamers, instead of just making a map and throwing it out there by the due date (i know you guys had time problems tho)

I only have a few suggestions for change (even tho b4 has been released)

1. Make the elevator in Marine Start faster AND smoother. I get a lot of clipping problems.

2. Engine hive could be a bit smaller, its JP wonderland.

3. What is behind the second airlock? 0.o

Scythe · April 2004

Faster and smoother can't be done. The faster it moves the bigger the steps it has to take to get to it's destination in time.

I'm assuming it's a func_door with a huge lip or a func_train.

It could be a func_tracktrain with heaps of track entites but that would mean about a hojillion entities tied up in one feature.

--Scythe--

xMaD-MaNx · April 2004

The bright green lights in feedwater dont seem to come from anywhere.

RedDragon · April 2004

My only complaint is the overall brightness of the map. I remember the old bast being quite a bit darker and scary, which is why I loved it.

Just my two cents.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' />

Insomnia · April 2004

Only problem with bast is aliens live or die by the hives. If they have refinery or feed its a fairly balanced game. If they have engine room, then marines win. This is because of the door. The door is vrey friendly to marines and prvents the aliens from reaching their 2 closest res nodes. Plus the door DOESNT WORK 40 percent of the time. If they want to reach the res nodes they would have to go to feed and circle around. I suggest that a vent connects engine to the main aft vent and another vent be added on the other side of the door. Also, in the beginning, the rotating thing doesnt always work.

Heres what i suggest. Its a bigger version of engine room area. Blue are where i think new vents should be. Ohyes make it darker. Bast was the most atmospheric of the ns maps. it should be kept like that

Steel_Blade · April 2004

I found a leak.

EvenFlow · April 2004

New Bast looks great, thanks guys. The only issue I have with this map is how hard it is for Onos to get into marine spawn late into the game. Played a game yesterday where aliens had 3 hives and marines still managed to win because it was impossible to finish them off in that spawn <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> .

MrBen · April 2004

Sorry for the button breakage :| It was all mendasp i tells ya!

Apos · April 2004

I like the layout change: but are those passageways that onos can travel, or are they just vents? I think it's pretty clear that engine needs a second "big" exit, so I'm all for it. The other passageway, which connects the weldable vent into the marine base with a vent to double res, would also be a welcome change. As it stands, if the marines hold Feedwater or aliens are in engine, then it's pretty hard for skulks to get to double to mount an attack. This would allow aliens to have a fairer access to the main areas no matter what hive they got.

I'm also chiming in to say that the rotating door and the slanted elevator down towards refinery should both go slowly.

The slowness of the rotating door is part of what helps engine not be such a marine friendly hive, and it ads hella suspense.

The slowness of the slanted elevator is mostly for atmospherics: no matter how fast it goes, people are going to use the ladder anyway: the vater is really about blocking visibility and gunfire down from above. It's also good cover for skulks.

Also confirming: there is some sort of exploit having to do with the feedwater hive. A rine can get "in" it from underwater and merrily stab away, safe from harm.

The only thing I'm not so crazy about is the ease in which marines can sneak into the vent to get below feedwater and set up a phase or siege. That passageway is not commonly traveled by aliens, so its hard to catch them in the act until it's too late.

Mendasp · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ReD)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>GreyRaven,Apr 26 2004, 03:43 AM] My only complaint is the overall brightness of the map. I remember the old bast being quite a bit darker and scary, which is why I loved it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
We're going to reduce the compile gamma value on later versions (so it's closer to the original).

As for the rest of the comments, keep it going guys, we appreciate every bit of feedback, heh.

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