<!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Oct 17 2004, 02:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Oct 17 2004, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Funnily enough, I was just reading Plotinus yesterday. He's the Neoplatonic philosopher most usually considered one of the foundations of Christian philosophy (although he was pagan Roman). Here's his quote on love:
<!--QuoteBegin-Plotinus+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plotinus)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Consider, even, the case of pictures: Those seeing by the bodily sense the productions of the art of painting do not see the one thing in the one only way; they are deeply stirred by recognizing in the objects depicted to the eyes the presentation of what lies in the idea, and so are called to recollection of the truth - the very experience out of which Love rises.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really useful description of what love is. Part of what separates man from animal is the ability to connect what he senses around him to an abstract representation in his own mind - the associative ability. I think that love, although it comes in many different flavors, has a lot to do with some sort of appreciation of that connection (between external and abstract). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That not a very biblical description of love to say the least. Biblical love is a commitment, not a feeling.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 17 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 17 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Oct 17 2004, 02:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Oct 17 2004, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Funnily enough, I was just reading Plotinus yesterday. He's the Neoplatonic philosopher most usually considered one of the foundations of Christian philosophy (although he was pagan Roman). Here's his quote on love:
<!--QuoteBegin-Plotinus+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plotinus)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Consider, even, the case of pictures: Those seeing by the bodily sense the productions of the art of painting do not see the one thing in the one only way; they are deeply stirred by recognizing in the objects depicted to the eyes the presentation of what lies in the idea, and so are called to recollection of the truth - the very experience out of which Love rises.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really useful description of what love is. Part of what separates man from animal is the ability to connect what he senses around him to an abstract representation in his own mind - the associative ability. I think that love, although it comes in many different flavors, has a lot to do with some sort of appreciation of that connection (between external and abstract). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That not a very biblical description of love to say the least. Biblical love is a commitment, not a feeling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you substantiate that? Otherwise I miss your point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...And now I will show you the most excellent way.
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom al mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Specifically pay attention to
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Note the word 'always' as in "lasting for ever", love as a feeling or as an effection is fleeting in existance, love as a choice, or a commitment I see no reason should ever end. Any reason that might end a person's choice to love is countered by love biblically described characteristics. It is not self centered, thus a person will never love for thier own benifit. It is not impatient, thus a person will never stop loving over time. It is protective, trusting, hopefull, and everlasting. The author is clearly not describing a chemical reaction, there one moment, gone the next. The author is describing a goal, a pourpous in life, that a loving human being makes thier own, by choice, when they love.
to be fair, i am pretty sure the love being described is agape, in contrast with eros as was earlier mentioned. *BUT* I do believe that the relationship between a guy and a girl should include agape, esp. in marriage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Oct 18 2004, 02:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Oct 18 2004, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to be fair, i am pretty sure the love being described is agape, in contrast with eros as was earlier mentioned. *BUT* I do believe that the relationship between a guy and a girl should include agape, esp. in marriage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed, and if I remember my honors humanities course correctly, the bible has some pretty dirty descriptions of eros love, too.
<a href='http://www.google.com/search?q=agape+eros+philos+storge' target='_blank'>For those who are curious</a> (most of the links will be Christian in nature).
I think it's interesting to note that the Greeks had such well-defined language for this emotion and English (and even latin-based languages) fall short to some degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the word 'always' as in "lasting for ever", love as a feeling or as an effection is fleeting in existance, love as a choice, or a commitment I see no reason should ever end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would disagree that the quote demands commitment. Another way of interpreting "always" would be "existing regardless of circumstances." In other words, your love (agape) isn't a commitment, it's an unavoidable reaction. That seems to be the indication in my Plotinus quote as well.
Well, at the same time even eros does demand some sort of commitment, unlike some stupid girls at my high school (if you care to remember your HS days, think of all the Valley Girl - wannabes and their raging ditziness) \ - the ones that said "I'll love you forever if you get me a drink" (true story)- so I do think the word "love" is way overused.
Love - If you can say it to someone and truly mean it then you feel it, it may not be the biblical definition, the showbiz version or even the same version as the couple sitting holding hands over the road from you, you still feel it.
Thats the closest thing I could come up with thats true about love.
I agree its chemical but its still something worth trying to find.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin-Plotinus+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plotinus)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Consider, even, the case of pictures: Those seeing by the bodily sense the productions of the art of painting do not see the one thing in the one only way; they are deeply stirred by recognizing in the objects depicted to the eyes the presentation of what lies in the idea, and so are called to recollection of the truth - the very experience out of which Love rises.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really useful description of what love is. Part of what separates man from animal is the ability to connect what he senses around him to an abstract representation in his own mind - the associative ability. I think that love, although it comes in many different flavors, has a lot to do with some sort of appreciation of that connection (between external and abstract). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That not a very biblical description of love to say the least. Biblical love is a commitment, not a feeling.
<!--QuoteBegin-Plotinus+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plotinus)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Consider, even, the case of pictures: Those seeing by the bodily sense the productions of the art of painting do not see the one thing in the one only way; they are deeply stirred by recognizing in the objects depicted to the eyes the presentation of what lies in the idea, and so are called to recollection of the truth - the very experience out of which Love rises.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really useful description of what love is. Part of what separates man from animal is the ability to connect what he senses around him to an abstract representation in his own mind - the associative ability. I think that love, although it comes in many different flavors, has a lot to do with some sort of appreciation of that connection (between external and abstract). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That not a very biblical description of love to say the least. Biblical love is a commitment, not a feeling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you substantiate that? Otherwise I miss your point.
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom al mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Specifically pay attention to
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the word 'always' as in "lasting for ever", love as a feeling or as an effection is fleeting in existance, love as a choice, or a commitment I see no reason should ever end. Any reason that might end a person's choice to love is countered by love biblically described characteristics. It is not self centered, thus a person will never love for thier own benifit. It is not impatient, thus a person will never stop loving over time. It is protective, trusting, hopefull, and everlasting. The author is clearly not describing a chemical reaction, there one moment, gone the next. The author is describing a goal, a pourpous in life, that a loving human being makes thier own, by choice, when they love.
Indeed, and if I remember my honors humanities course correctly, the bible has some pretty dirty descriptions of eros love, too.
<a href='http://www.google.com/search?q=agape+eros+philos+storge' target='_blank'>For those who are curious</a> (most of the links will be Christian in nature).
I think it's interesting to note that the Greeks had such well-defined language for this emotion and English (and even latin-based languages) fall short to some degree.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Specifically pay attention to
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the word 'always' as in "lasting for ever", love as a feeling or as an effection is fleeting in existance, love as a choice, or a commitment I see no reason should ever end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would disagree that the quote demands commitment. Another way of interpreting "always" would be "existing regardless of circumstances." In other words, your love (agape) isn't a commitment, it's an unavoidable reaction. That seems to be the indication in my Plotinus quote as well.
Thats the closest thing I could come up with thats true about love.
I agree its chemical but its still something worth trying to find.