<!--QuoteBegin-Niteowl+Apr 5 2004, 11:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Apr 5 2004, 11:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so it seems to be no one here thinks that the game needs to have an option to slow it down a bit for newer comms? i guess that's just me then <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I agree, I think the game was more fun when it was longer, but I think if we fix the current imbalances it will inherently be longer. I think overall tech/evolution costs should be upper very slightly, or res flow should be shorten/start with less res...
I do like the idea of decreasing gorge cost and starting aliens with less res. This means those that plan to save for higher lifeform will take a little longer to do so. And gorges aren't really worth 10 res anyway. That 10 res is just a 10 res bump on the cost of any structure. How much is a hive? 50 res, of course. 10 for gorge and 40 for the hive. Because no one stays gorge all the time. So make gorges 5 and start aliens with 20 res.
That'll put at least a bit of a dent in those earlier fades and lerks and such. As far as a variable to slow the game down, I'd be happy with the game being slower and more strategic anyway. It seems with each new version it gets faster and faster. I didn't come to NS to play a deathmatch, I came for the strategic teamplay elements. When most games are decided at about 10 minutes and over by 20... that's not the game I want to play. I liked it when the winner was unclear and victory could go back and forth for an hour, with each team gaining and losing territory across the map. Those were the good games. Now the game is so fast paced that as soon as you've lost one area you have to run to another one and defend that. It's like whichever team wins the first skirmish of the game has already won except for killing off stragglers. That's just no fun.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Apr 5 2004, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Apr 5 2004, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I do like the idea of decreasing gorge cost and starting aliens with less res. This means those that plan to save for higher lifeform will take a little longer to do so. And gorges aren't really worth 10 res anyway. That 10 res is just a 10 res bump on the cost of any structure. How much is a hive? 50 res, of course. 10 for gorge and 40 for the hive. Because no one stays gorge all the time. So make gorges 5 and start aliens with 20 res.
That'll put at least a bit of a dent in those earlier fades and lerks and such. As far as a variable to slow the game down, I'd be happy with the game being slower and more strategic anyway. It seems with each new version it gets faster and faster. I didn't come to NS to play a deathmatch, I came for the strategic teamplay elements. When most games are decided at about 10 minutes and over by 20... that's not the game I want to play. I liked it when the winner was unclear and victory could go back and forth for an hour, with each team gaining and losing territory across the map. Those were the good games. Now the game is so fast paced that as soon as you've lost one area you have to run to another one and defend that. It's like whichever team wins the first skirmish of the game has already won except for killing off stragglers. That's just no fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Couldn't have said it better myself. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> That's exactly how i feel too.
1.0 might have had alot of unbalances but look at 3.0 now, it doesn't play right anymore. Those long games were really fun and didn't get me bored at all. Constantly defending and attacking where both team had a chance. Fades might be a bit overpowered at 3 minutes but look at them against a 3/3/ hmg+shotty HA train. If they are any good at all you won't have a chance, same with the ono.
Something has to be done for both sides. Maybe scaling of upgrade costs/research time for marines in little and big games, locking lifeforms to hives, making blink have a cooldown before being able to use it etc.
IMHO, the only way 2.0 was 'balanced' was by making marine tech VERY cheap. By making some game elements a bit slower you'll also won't push new commanders too much since they can focus more on other things instead of 'omg upg omg medpack omg ammo WTH ahhhhh'.
I'm a firm believer that the way to learn to command is to gain a fundamental understanding of the game from the ground as a grunt. During the game, stop and look at how many rts the comm is holding, how he reacts to fades and when he chooses what techs. Looking at game time is also important.
I'd also recommend looking at the <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&filter=ns&q=&type=team&rpp=50' target='_blank'>Amped News NS demos</a>. There are comm demos of some of the delta comms and its useful to watch what they do and think about the game events that caused that reaction.
My fear in that making a second option that "slows down" the game would result in comms who refuse to command "fast" games and you are back to the exact same problem, which is not enough pub commanders.
As for 3-4 minute fades, the focus has to be on containing the fade. Honestly, if the fade blinks into a group of weap2/armor 1 marines, it is going to run the other way. Generally, if you keep the pressure up, keep the fade having to respond to threats instead of allowing it to focus on killing your rts, it isn't a game ender.
<!--QuoteBegin-falloutx2+Apr 6 2004, 06:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (falloutx2 @ Apr 6 2004, 06:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My fear in that making a second option that "slows down" the game would result in comms who refuse to command "fast" games and you are back to the exact same problem, which is not enough pub commanders. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All those suggestions you make for becoming a better comm are great. but they aren't terribly accesible. There is a large portion of the pub playing community that don't read these boards, and only learn from what is packaged with the game.
I fail to see how making a slower option will lead to less pub commanders. What you might have is servers that have a population of pub comms who only like doing slow games, so that server will only play slow games. Better comms/players will migrate towards faster servers. Some slow comms will graduate to faster/normal games, some will not. Either way, you'llhave more games commed by competent comms, and more comms eased into comming without being frightened away.
100% of marine wins I have seen so far have either done one of two things, or both.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 100% of marine wins I have seen so far have either done one of two things, or both.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The aliens have to problem that it takes ages for a gorge to get the 15 res he needs to build a new rt. And if he dies he'll even need 25 res. So for aliens rt's are not easy to build. Alien rt's are easy to destroy with a knife so they're still hard to defend.
It is far harder to defend and maintain your nodes for aliens than marines. On top of that, if alien nodes are knocked down they kill your resource flow fast, esp. on a large server.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 100% of marine wins I have seen so far have either done one of two things, or both.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can defend nodes Redford, just put people there. Static defenses are for the weak-minded - and anyway, who says you need to defend your RTs? They won't be taken down enough if you just put some good ol' pressure on those aliens.
@Birdy: Way to uh.. gaurantee 100% marine wins? Hive 1 Skulks are hopelessly inferior to LMGs. Yes the Skulk personally can have a good K/D, but he'll never be as versatile as the LMG 'rine - for example, if 2 semi-intelligent marines walk into southloop you'll have to consider it off-bounds for anything but a coordinated rush. It would be extremely easy to lock down 2 Hives before the aliens can get a 2nd Hive up (6 minutes) - basicly, 4-bite Armor2/Weapon2 marines with diffamous shirtguns splattering Skulkbits all over the place and setting up TFacs, that without a 2nd Hive or a Lifeform are absolutely unbeatable.
How did we get the thread to go from "we need more pub commanders" to "I suck as skulk, so skulk sucks as lifeform, please boost the skulk"? Stay on topic, would you guys, the threads like this tend to get locked because of getting derailed like this. Skulk vs lmg, or game speed has little to do with amount of people willing to command in the pubs. Two main reasons people do not even attempt commanding seriously is lack of interest in mastering the RTS aspect and lack of decent manual on how to do things. And those that do deside to try it are often discouraged by bad response from the field marines. If you wish to increase the amount of average-level players commanding in pubs, you need to: 1. Find a way to attract more starcraft/warcraft/other RTS players to NS. 2. Make a good manual. 3. Somehow increase the need of rambo/field marines to follow orders.
I know the marines on the feild totally suck at aiming, and by putting myself in the chair, chances are I'm denying my team the win. When I see a marine get 4 meds from me, die to one skulk, and then ask for weapons when he respawns just annoys me to no end.
The teamwork aspect is NOT the problem. The problem is playing with people so bad they could probably not even beat HL on singleplayer in hard mode.
Comming is actually **fun** and **easy** if you have a team of **competant** marines who are killing machines.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Apr 8 2004, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Apr 8 2004, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Apr 7 2004, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 100% of marine wins I have seen so far have either done one of two things, or both.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can defend nodes Redford, just put people there. Static defenses are for the weak-minded - and anyway, who says you need to defend your RTs? They won't be taken down enough if you just put some good ol' pressure on those aliens.
@Birdy: Way to uh.. gaurantee 100% marine wins? Hive 1 Skulks are hopelessly inferior to LMGs. Yes the Skulk personally can have a good K/D, but he'll never be as versatile as the LMG 'rine - for example, if 2 semi-intelligent marines walk into southloop you'll have to consider it off-bounds for anything but a coordinated rush. It would be extremely easy to lock down 2 Hives before the aliens can get a 2nd Hive up (6 minutes) - basicly, 4-bite Armor2/Weapon2 marines with diffamous shirtguns splattering Skulkbits all over the place and setting up TFacs, that without a 2nd Hive or a Lifeform are absolutely unbeatable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, but marines need an overhaul anyways so might aswell try something 'new'. Game plays like crap atm. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Apr 8 2004, 08:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Apr 8 2004, 08:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Comming is actually **fun** and **easy** if you have a team of **competant** marines who are killing machines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no offense, but you're not exactly the audience that this is addressing. i'm talking about getting ppl into comming. not ppl who know how to comm and know how to shoot.
I think the main problem is that it's impossible to get real commanding experience without commanding actual people, but a lot of those who would make good potential comms don't want to ruin someone's game just so they can get that experience.
Honestly, the best way to handle it would be if the "good" servers had some sort of newb comm night every week where newb comms are encouraged (even forced) into the seat and the regs on the server will help them along with what to do. You can talk about tutorials and such, but nothing's really going to happen until they get some real-game experience.
Edited: Also, about being fun and easy, of *course* comming is going to be great if your entire team consists of superstars. The issue is what happens on the bulk of servers, where you have at least one guy who just barely knows what he's doing, a couple guys who are mediocre to poor shots but might listen to orders, a couple hotshots who want to do things their way, and then maybe two good guys who listen to orders.
In those games, it's frustrating because all it takes is one good Fade on the alien team to rip the whole team into shreds.
Sage, if open CC nights were held, maybe limit it to one 'tutor' grunt at a time - if the whole team is trying to be helpful to the newbcomm, it usually ends in a mess.
Comments
No, I agree, I think the game was more fun when it was longer, but I think if we fix the current imbalances it will inherently be longer. I think overall tech/evolution costs should be upper very slightly, or res flow should be shorten/start with less res...
That'll put at least a bit of a dent in those earlier fades and lerks and such. As far as a variable to slow the game down, I'd be happy with the game being slower and more strategic anyway. It seems with each new version it gets faster and faster. I didn't come to NS to play a deathmatch, I came for the strategic teamplay elements. When most games are decided at about 10 minutes and over by 20... that's not the game I want to play. I liked it when the winner was unclear and victory could go back and forth for an hour, with each team gaining and losing territory across the map. Those were the good games. Now the game is so fast paced that as soon as you've lost one area you have to run to another one and defend that. It's like whichever team wins the first skirmish of the game has already won except for killing off stragglers. That's just no fun.
That'll put at least a bit of a dent in those earlier fades and lerks and such. As far as a variable to slow the game down, I'd be happy with the game being slower and more strategic anyway. It seems with each new version it gets faster and faster. I didn't come to NS to play a deathmatch, I came for the strategic teamplay elements. When most games are decided at about 10 minutes and over by 20... that's not the game I want to play. I liked it when the winner was unclear and victory could go back and forth for an hour, with each team gaining and losing territory across the map. Those were the good games. Now the game is so fast paced that as soon as you've lost one area you have to run to another one and defend that. It's like whichever team wins the first skirmish of the game has already won except for killing off stragglers. That's just no fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't have said it better myself. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's exactly how i feel too.
1.0 might have had alot of unbalances but look at 3.0 now, it doesn't play right anymore. Those long games were really fun and didn't get me bored at all. Constantly defending and attacking where both team had a chance. Fades might be a bit overpowered at 3 minutes but look at them against a 3/3/ hmg+shotty HA train. If they are any good at all you won't have a chance, same with the ono.
Something has to be done for both sides.
Maybe scaling of upgrade costs/research time for marines in little and big games, locking lifeforms to hives, making blink have a cooldown before being able to use it etc.
IMHO, the only way 2.0 was 'balanced' was by making marine tech VERY cheap.
By making some game elements a bit slower you'll also won't push new commanders too much since they can focus more on other things instead of 'omg upg omg medpack omg ammo WTH ahhhhh'.
?2
I'd also recommend looking at the <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=demos&filter=ns&q=&type=team&rpp=50' target='_blank'>Amped News NS demos</a>. There are comm demos of some of the delta comms and its useful to watch what they do and think about the game events that caused that reaction.
My fear in that making a second option that "slows down" the game would result in comms who refuse to command "fast" games and you are back to the exact same problem, which is not enough pub commanders.
As for 3-4 minute fades, the focus has to be on containing the fade. Honestly, if the fade blinks into a group of weap2/armor 1 marines, it is going to run the other way. Generally, if you keep the pressure up, keep the fade having to respond to threats instead of allowing it to focus on killing your rts, it isn't a game ender.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All those suggestions you make for becoming a better comm are great. but they aren't terribly accesible. There is a large portion of the pub playing community that don't read these boards, and only learn from what is packaged with the game.
I fail to see how making a slower option will lead to less pub commanders. What you might have is servers that have a population of pub comms who only like doing slow games, so that server will only play slow games. Better comms/players will migrate towards faster servers. Some slow comms will graduate to faster/normal games, some will not. Either way, you'llhave more games commed by competent comms, and more comms eased into comming without being frightened away.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The aliens have to problem that it takes ages for a gorge to get the 15 res he needs to build a new rt. And if he dies he'll even need 25 res. So for aliens rt's are not easy to build.
Alien rt's are easy to destroy with a knife so they're still hard to defend.
It is far harder to defend and maintain your nodes for aliens than marines. On top of that, if alien nodes are knocked down they kill your resource flow fast, esp. on a large server.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can defend nodes Redford, just put people there. Static defenses are for the weak-minded - and anyway, who says you need to defend your RTs? They won't be taken down enough if you just put some good ol' pressure on those aliens.
@Birdy:
Way to uh.. gaurantee 100% marine wins? Hive 1 Skulks are hopelessly inferior to LMGs. Yes the Skulk personally can have a good K/D, but he'll never be as versatile as the LMG 'rine - for example, if 2 semi-intelligent marines walk into southloop you'll have to consider it off-bounds for anything but a coordinated rush. It would be extremely easy to lock down 2 Hives before the aliens can get a 2nd Hive up (6 minutes) - basicly, 4-bite Armor2/Weapon2 marines with diffamous shirtguns splattering Skulkbits all over the place and setting up TFacs, that without a 2nd Hive or a Lifeform are absolutely unbeatable.
Skulk vs lmg, or game speed has little to do with amount of people willing to command in the pubs. Two main reasons people do not even attempt commanding seriously is lack of interest in mastering the RTS aspect and lack of decent manual on how to do things. And those that do deside to try it are often discouraged by bad response from the field marines.
If you wish to increase the amount of average-level players commanding in pubs, you need to:
1. Find a way to attract more starcraft/warcraft/other RTS players to NS.
2. Make a good manual.
3. Somehow increase the need of rambo/field marines to follow orders.
I know the marines on the feild totally suck at aiming, and by putting myself in the chair, chances are I'm denying my team the win. When I see a marine get 4 meds from me, die to one skulk, and then ask for weapons when he respawns just annoys me to no end.
The teamwork aspect is NOT the problem. The problem is playing with people so bad they could probably not even beat HL on singleplayer in hard mode.
Comming is actually **fun** and **easy** if you have a team of **competant** marines who are killing machines.
1. Marines quickly, at start of game take all res, and deny aliens res. Aliens can't evolve, so marines win.
2. Marines build phase at hive, shotgun rush it. Because shotguns are so effective on buildings, hive is dead before hive is under attack message. Aliens can't defend the hives and thereby lose.
I personally think that resnodes are far too easy to build, and are "throwaway" structures. In most RTS games, you need to build several important elements in order to get rescources. These elements, unlike the RTs in NS, are also DEFENDABLE. AKA, in starcraft, you must build a center building near the rescources, then you must have drones that collect them. In C&C, you must have a base near the res, a refinery, and a harvester to actually get the res. ALL elements of these important res collecting processes are defendable. In NS, if the marines leave a node alone for five seconds, there's a good chance a skulk will attack it alone and there is nothing the marine commander can do. So marines need to elec the nodes. Even then, when the aliens get fades and onoses, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND THE NODES. This needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can defend nodes Redford, just put people there. Static defenses are for the weak-minded - and anyway, who says you need to defend your RTs? They won't be taken down enough if you just put some good ol' pressure on those aliens.
@Birdy:
Way to uh.. gaurantee 100% marine wins? Hive 1 Skulks are hopelessly inferior to LMGs. Yes the Skulk personally can have a good K/D, but he'll never be as versatile as the LMG 'rine - for example, if 2 semi-intelligent marines walk into southloop you'll have to consider it off-bounds for anything but a coordinated rush. It would be extremely easy to lock down 2 Hives before the aliens can get a 2nd Hive up (6 minutes) - basicly, 4-bite Armor2/Weapon2 marines with diffamous shirtguns splattering Skulkbits all over the place and setting up TFacs, that without a 2nd Hive or a Lifeform are absolutely unbeatable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but marines need an overhaul anyways so might aswell try something 'new'.
Game plays like crap atm. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comming is actually **fun** and **easy** if you have a team of **competant** marines who are killing machines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no offense, but you're not exactly the audience that this is addressing. i'm talking about getting ppl into comming. not ppl who know how to comm and know how to shoot.
Honestly, the best way to handle it would be if the "good" servers had some sort of newb comm night every week where newb comms are encouraged (even forced) into the seat and the regs on the server will help them along with what to do. You can talk about tutorials and such, but nothing's really going to happen until they get some real-game experience.
Edited:
Also, about being fun and easy, of *course* comming is going to be great if your entire team consists of superstars. The issue is what happens on the bulk of servers, where you have at least one guy who just barely knows what he's doing, a couple guys who are mediocre to poor shots but might listen to orders, a couple hotshots who want to do things their way, and then maybe two good guys who listen to orders.
In those games, it's frustrating because all it takes is one good Fade on the alien team to rip the whole team into shreds.