Mmorpgs

OttoDestructOttoDestruct Members Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7790Posts: 3,231
And why I don't like them
I don't like MMORPG's. It seems to me that every time one is developed ads for it, and magazines push them as "THE MOST 1337 EPIC RPG GAME EVAR!". Keyword there being RPG. Role. Playing. Game. I have yet to see a MMORPG actually focus on roleplaying, with possible exception to SWG as it forces players to interact with its economy. Alas, it just turns into a pay to play Diablo number cruncher with lots and lots of people connected. Granted this discussion will most likely get locked from "OMG NUB X MMORPG BLOWS Y'S <insert body part here>", but.. er... yea.. discuss... or something...
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  • TyphonTyphon Members Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Posts: 1,597
    If you want real roleplaying, you gotta go for the non-mainstream MMOs. The vast majority of people are not interested in roleplaying, so any MMO that caters to a large player base will not have much RP. If you want a real RP experience you gotta go for MUDs. I find Achaea to be one of the best.
    Counting bodies like sheep
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  • FilthyLarryFilthyLarry Members Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20423Posts: 337
    I've never really bothered with MMORPGs. The closest I've come is to play a few games on some NeverWinter Nights servers. I did play a few MUDs at Uni.

    As stated to find a server where _actual roleplaying_ takes place is a challenge to say the least.

    An additional problem I think is also one of mixing new with advanced characters. It seems alot of people can't resist the temptation to team up with some high-level near god-like character to "rush" to get to the next level.

    Too much emphasis on stuff - that next fantastic item - and not enough emphasis on just spending time in your character's skin.
  • xKORExslimxKORExslim Members Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12182Posts: 283
    GG Thread closed. I win.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Members Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Posts: 7,661
    I've tried 3 mmos, trials allbeit, but the theme seems to be the same thing. Kill stuff, level, kill bigger stuff, level more, make new character, pay fee, repeat. its not fun at all. Although I've taken an interest in the GuildWars thing Kore posted...
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,896
    They've just struck me as Pokemon Online, but with more flesh. I find them unsatisfying as well.
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  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Posts: 2,510
    All the means Otto, is that you're smart. MMORPGs = eBay + level treadmill. I played the Anarchy Online trial version once, and I was amazed at how little gameplay was going on. It might as well be one of those managing games with no graphics. Phantasy Star Online can be fun if you have a good character, but the PC version is free (it might only come out in Japan though). The only RPGs I've ever liked have been single player; Final Fantasy VII and IX and the Deus Ex games, but they're more like first-person-action-role-playing-games.
    The above post is the result of sleep deprivation and something known as "teh awesumsawce."
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  • GreyPawsGreyPaws Members Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Posts: 1,340
    People do Role Play in MMOs you just have to find the right bunch of them. The graphics are too distracting for most folks, so they dont feel the need to role play. If you want lots of people playing an RPG and actually Role Playing their Chars. try Gemstone 4 Its A Mud but it has what you are looking for.
    "...Wheres my friggen Tau Cannon?..."
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835
    edited March 2004
    To be honest, though I do love RP, the true irritant for me is the actual lack of player involvement. The numbers do almost everything in the game to a greater degree... a point emphasised by the bog-standard 'auto attack' in every MMO moneyspinner.

    PSO was a small step in the right direction but sega didn't continue and it's a real shame. Hopefully someday someone will pick up where PSO left off and run a heckload further XD

    edit:
    I think this comic page describes MMORPGs at their best =P

    http://www.gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20040202
  • XzilenXzilen Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11642Posts: 2,253
    I agree. At least since Ultima Online.

    Oh back in the day, even with the second land added, UO was the best. Unfortunely, the GM's didn't give a damn about anyone except popular people, and really weren't any help.

    I solved a quest early one time, but my choice of revealing "who" the lich was early was in a rather bad way. I shot an arrow at his human form at a gathering and got put in jail. They banned me until the mystery was solved and changed the outcome. I quit shortly thereafter. It was right around the time they started finally making real quests again. *Sigh*

    Oh well, not enough roleplayers in it, especially when you see people named "Limp Bizkit" in it.
    Alice in Chains.... The best band ever.

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  • MenixMenix Members Join Date: 2003-09-13 Member: 20828Posts: 132
    Most MMORPGs nowadays are actually MMOGs and should stop pretending to be MMORPGs. Games like DaoC/SB are basically large team combat games, while EQ and a bunch of others are treadmill/raid games. Right now MUDs are the only games to deserve the title MMORPG, because they don't have much else to keep them alive.
    I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine.

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  • dr_ddr_d Members Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Posts: 2,598
    I don't see why people hate on MMO games so much. I didn't see them advertising it as a purely RP experience. Hell even MUDs have power levelers. If you want a pure RP experience go to Yahoo chat.

    MMO's are about immersing yourself in a game world you love. Just like people who loved warcraft are looking forward to WoW, and people who loved the Matrix (me) are looking forward to The Matrix Online.

    Right now I'm playing FFXI and while there is a lot of leveling and questing, I enjoy the enviorment too. A couple days ago I spent three hours fishing with friends arguing about who was more badass Kefka or Sephiroth, while it wasn't a pure RP experience it sure as hell wasn't level treadmilling.
    The world is my gaint **** contest, my **** is pine scented, I'm the Muhamed Ali of the internet, and King Kong really ain't got nothing on me.

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  • MerciorMercior Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4019Posts: 367
    edited April 2004
    I too cannont stand the new wave of modern RPG games - I've never seen one of these "epics" even come close to the awesome gameplay experience that you can get from a MUD.

    I think the most obvious problem is graphics. 3D graphics may look nice, but they limit what you can do & where you can go in the game and, even worse, it means that you get much smaller worlds to explore. Theres also something nice about reading descriptions of your location - it lets you build up your own mental picture of the world and what the monsters etc look like, and it also allows you to move around the world very fast when you need to, unlike in modern RPG's.

    From a programmers viewpoint theres a virtually unlimited possibility of what you can create in a MUD environment, unlike 3D. Its also a lot faster to implement features ina text mud than working with any sort of graphics, giving more time to work on the design & gameplay side. Its a shame that no professional developers have spent several years making a commercial text-based MUD yet, I think some seriously good games could be produced if this were to happen.
  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Members Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Posts: 1,769
    edited April 2004
    QUOTE (dr.d @ Apr 2 2004, 02:01 PM)
    Right now I'm playing FFXI and while there is a lot of leveling and questing, I enjoy the enviorment too.  A couple days ago I spent three hours fishing with friends arguing about who was more badass Kefka or Sephiroth, while it wasn't a pure RP experience it sure as hell wasn't level treadmilling.

    In case you guys are still unsure, Kefka is.
  • dr_ddr_d Members Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Posts: 2,598
    edited April 2004
    QUOTE (Umbraed Monkey @ Apr 2 2004, 02:42 PM)
    QUOTE (dr.d @ Apr 2 2004, 02:01 PM)
    Right now I'm playing FFXI and while there is a lot of leveling and questing, I enjoy the enviorment too.  A couple days ago I spent three hours fishing with friends arguing about who was more badass Kefka or Sephiroth, while it wasn't a pure RP experience it sure as hell wasn't level treadmilling.

    In case you guys are still unsure, Kefka is.

    Please monkey it was no contest, Kefka all the way : )

    Although they made a good counterpoint since Sephiroth and Cloud were actually one person you had to combine their cool factor. I quickly debunked this by pointing out the Cloud was a pansy.

    Anyway you have to face it the only pure RP games are single player, as soon as you go multiplayer you add in free will, which means someone has the ability to not RP. 1 out of 100 people don't RP at 1000 people 100 don't RP at 10,000 people 1000 won't RP. It's just not something you can't fix without completely destroying gameplay. Trust me you can find 50 people to RP even in EverCrack.
    The world is my gaint **** contest, my **** is pine scented, I'm the Muhamed Ali of the internet, and King Kong really ain't got nothing on me.

    E-thugs n' Harmony, Respect.
  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Members Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Posts: 1,769
    edited April 2004
    MMORPG is actually quite awesome in theory. It just didnt work out, because the people are not good enough for it. Just like communism!



    Think about it deeper, its the same human traits that make these things fail: laziness, greed, corruption and other fun things. A lot of cool things fail because people suck.
  • DrakkenDrakken Members Join Date: 2003-11-12 Member: 22728Posts: 280
    I used to play Everquest for 5 years.... at first, it was a blessing because it seemed so cool to play with so many people and how the environment was. But as time went on... the game got worse, not because of the GAME itself, but the player community. All you had were a bunch of TWs (taiwan) people who would steal everything you worked for (killing time spawned mobs, some that only spawned once a week and ****) and little children who cried about everything and were annoying as hell.

    When I first started playing though, everyone was cool as hell and were nice people... now everyone is just an **** because of how this world is... it sucks.

    I'm still looking forward to playing World of Warcraft though.
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835
    sorry guys but the games aren't cool and the 'theory'? depends on which you're talking about; the 'constant world full of players' or the 'level treadmill so they give us money'

    Here's the part you're confusing with what works: IRC =P
    That's right... chatting. It's no coincidence that MMORPGs have an interface that's frightening similar to what you'd find in your usual Internet Relay Chat. Rather than successfully create a new system that works well (like PSO, dear god the chat system in that was good XD ), they just put pretty 3d graphics and some number crunching on and call it a game.

    Levelling breaks immersion too, people talking about things in numbers is a atmosphere shattering experience =/
    If you took out the daffy levels and left it as a sorta 3D explorable world with combat and fancy items it'd still be fun because the people make it that way. Course IRC is free so I think you're better sticking with that until an MMORPG with genuine gameplay comes along rather than the current crop of voyeuristic marvels where you can watch shouting "woo! go stats! give that goblin chief a treadmill thrashing! wahey!" and occaisonally press some buttons to make you feel like you had some important imput that can't just be stuck in a macro and left.

    </cynisism>
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Members Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Posts: 2,227
    MMORPGs are good for one thing... **** other people off. There are a million ways to do it, and there are literally THOUSANDS of players to do those things to.
    Don't Die!

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    It seems the only way to change anything this day and age is to kill. Whatever happened to talking?

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  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    edited April 2004
    QUOTE
    Kill stuff, level, kill bigger stuff, level more, make new character, pay fee, repeat.

    QUOTE
    Levelling breaks immersion too, people talking about things in numbers is a atmosphere shattering experience =/


    One of my biggest pet peeves right now is leveling. Seriously, why? Why does just about every RPG ever made have to have leveling in it? Imagine this if you will: An MMORPG where you create your character by taking a phsych test (like in Jagged Alliance 2), this will determine which skills (up to two in JA2) your character would get bonuses to. Then you get to allocate a set number of points to your character's 'stats' (if anyone can think of a better way to do this I'm all ears), then.... they stay that way! Perminantly! You can't level up, so there would be little attraction other than role playing (I suppose you could have fun just sitting around shooting the breeze with drinking buddies in the local pub dr. d style too), as any nublet could theoretically make a character just as good as yours. Ok, I hear you asking, but without anyone being able to improve their skills there would be no variety. Yes that would be a concern, so I present to you an idea I first saw in System Shock 2 (but which is probably older): When you preform a skill based task, say, lockpicking, you are presented with a simple sort of minigame, the dificulty of which is dependant on whether or not you have the lockpicking skill, what you're dexterity stat is (in this case), a random number (some pin configurations are harder than others), and the lock's toughness (Medeco > Master Padlock #3). Then the players ability at the minigame will set him apart from other players. If he/she is really good at the minigame, they may be able to pick an average lock successfully without the lockpick skill and a low DEX, so they can create a new character with a diferent skill. Character improvement is thus still possible, but it is done through improving ones own skills rather than increasing some stat. You get better at the game much like how you'd get better at quake.

    Now personally I think a game like that would be really slick (assuming the minigame-ish thing was done really well), maybe even good enough for me to want to pay to play it on a per month basis.
    1.04ever
  • dr_ddr_d Members Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Posts: 2,598
    edited April 2004
    QUOTE (Geminosity @ Apr 2 2004, 06:25 PM)
    sorry guys but the games aren't cool and the 'theory'? depends on which you're talking about; the 'constant world full of players' or the 'level treadmill so they give us money'

    Here's the part you're confusing with what works: IRC =P
    That's right... chatting.  It's no coincidence that MMORPGs have an interface that's frightening similar to what you'd find in your usual Internet Relay Chat.  Rather than successfully create a new system that works well (like PSO, dear god the chat system in that was good XD ), they just put pretty 3d graphics and some number crunching on and call it a game.

    Levelling breaks immersion too, people talking about things in numbers is a atmosphere shattering experience =/
    If you took out the daffy levels and left it as a sorta 3D explorable world with combat and fancy items it'd still be fun because the people make it that way.  Course IRC is free so I think you're better sticking with that until an MMORPG with genuine gameplay comes along rather than the current crop of voyeuristic marvels where you can watch shouting "woo! go stats! give that goblin chief a treadmill thrashing! wahey!" and occaisonally press some buttons to make you feel like you had some important imput that can't just be stuck in a macro and left.

    </cynisism>

    All that doesn't change the fact that I spent three hours hanging out with friends inside a town fishing and just shooting the ****.

    Its easy to pick out everything wrong with MMO games but its just as easy to ignore them and make your own fun. Look at a game like Neverwinter Nights, plenty of people didn't RP but the people who did were great at it because they chose to do it, and it wasn't forced on them like in MUDs.

    You can complain about level treadmilling and item whoring all you want but these games don't force you to do this, it is entirely up to the individual player how they choose to spend their online gaming time.

    To completely prove this point beyond a shadow of a doubt, I was a member of an RPing clan in Diablo 2. There was about 20 of us and we spent our time staging in character quests and sat around town drinking booze and fudging around. The RP opprotunites are out there, don't be lazy.
    The world is my gaint **** contest, my **** is pine scented, I'm the Muhamed Ali of the internet, and King Kong really ain't got nothing on me.

    E-thugs n' Harmony, Respect.
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835
    edited April 2004
    edit: ooh! skulky, that's the kind of stuff I'm hoping to make =D
    Hacking in Neocron also worked like that and there's even a whole game dedicated to that style of play called 'puzzle pirates'. Shame PP's implementation isn't exactly great but it's a step in the right direction =3
    I personally believe that games should be a mix of char and player; the minigames being the player part and the difficulty of the minigame being the char ^^ :edit


    D, I know where you're coming from being an RP fan myself, but the levelling does hold you back =/

    For one, most MMOrpgs have level limits to locations; some arbitary, some just caused by the strength of the ever-spawning monsters there XD
    At some point or other you WILL have to level to achieve something, and even within the constraints of RP I'm very free-spirted which means I absolutely love exploring.

    Another MMORPG spoiler from the levels is the other people in the game. To illustrate exactly what I'm getting at I'll point out something that happened in PSO;
    My character was having a relationship with another character, we'll call him 'lolly' for reference sake XD
    Anyways, one day I'm sitting in the lobby chattering away like usual when lolly's player comes in with a character depicting his archnemesis. He starts making threats against my char and with her usual fiery passion she starts giving him a tongue lashing. Unfortunately the 'villian' was new and so everyone else in the lobby saw he was just level 1. The net result is we actually had to stop and inform everyone we were RPing because everyone had ganged up on him screaming that he was a noob and that my lil char would kick his rear and stuff. Not only was the room reaching flaming new temperatures but the actual char was surrounded by people doing kick/punch animations on him lol.

    You can even add the two together... Imagine a thief in RO who isn't high level enough to have the hide ability. They RP and say they're hiding. while the others involved in RP understand, the other players will start pointing out that they haven't hidden and will get involved. This will inevitably end in some conflict or annoyance and even after you mention it's RP there's always going to be someone new arriving to point out the thief isn't hidden =P

    Stepping away from RP to a little extent the whole levelling mindset causes even more aggrivation. If you were walking in the woods when you saw someone beset by wolves which you responded to by jumping in and helping them fight them off, chances are they'd either;

    a) thank you because you just saved them/made their lives easier
    b) get angry because they're too proud to accept help and would scorn you saying they could have handled them themselves
    c) become miffed because it was a trail or something story depicted.

    As you can see, even amongst non-RP players this is still a healthy environment for RP and atmosphere.
    Now put this in a levelling context and the result almost entirely ends up being....

    d) "OMG JOO NOOB THAT WAS MY XP!!! YOU KSER!!! I REPORTZ JOO!!!" or some other slagging match.

    Even more 'pleasant' players such as myself find it somewhat aggrivating when people interfere by helping you in a fight and therefore increasing the amount of milling you'll have to do to get the next new shiny level.
    The worst thing is this is extended further by the 'hero complex' where men seem to think all girls in combat over a second long probably need a hand. If the game wasn't based around boringly dull xp treadmilling you'd probably find the girls at the recieving end of this a little more patient but as it is when you've been 'saved' for 800th time, slowing your progress towards getting that important skill it's a little too easy to blow your top ^^;

    D, I've sat around on MMORPGs many a time having a nice chat... sure you can do it in IRC but the environments and avatars make it nicer. Ragnarok Online was fantastic for finding places to sit and RP, or chat or have a romantic interlude. The environments themselves were interesting and there were many places to explore and there were even many items you could find that had no practical application beyond RP (such as rings, dolls, etc) but eventually you'd always have to come back to the same old boring stupid number gaming.

    There's a great many solutions to treadmilling, including removing character advancement altogether, but until they're used I will continue to pour molten hate on MMORPGing =P
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Members Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Posts: 7,661
    QUOTE (Trevelyan @ Apr 2 2004, 06:34 PM)
    MMORPGs are good for one thing... **** other people off. There are a million ways to do it, and there are literally THOUSANDS of players to do those things to.

    *squish*


    Ughhhh I gotta go change my pants now wow.gif
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    #BATTERY
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    edited April 2004
    QUOTE
    ooh! skulky, that's the kind of stuff I'm hoping to make =D
    Hacking in Neocron also worked like that and there's even a whole game dedicated to that style of play called 'puzzle pirates'. Shame PP's implementation isn't exactly great but it's a step in the right direction =3


    You mean this Puzzle Pirates? Damnit, that actually looks like fun.... must...resist...urge...to...play...subscription...based..game...lest..I...become...addicted...

    Yeah, I'd love to make something liek that too but unfortunatly I don't have the time or skill to pull off something on that scale. Not to mention that I abhore subscription based gaming and couldn't bring myself to force people to pay for the undoubtedly expensive bandwith costs... unless it could somehow be P2P... Anyways, I'm working on a very simple single player RPG in a similar vein so who knows, maybe there will be an MMORPG sequel to it someday.
    1.04ever
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835
    well I'm gonna be making some MORPG mods with that kinda system. No plans for MMO because of the difficulties and stuff but an MORPG mod is easily doable =3

    at this rate it's gonna be on UT2k4 though ^^
  • RueRue Members Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Posts: 1,451 Advanced user
    Im not allowed to play MMORPG's, mainly cause when I do I usualy play them way to much.

    I used to play RuneScape when it first came out and there were no p2p players who thought themselves above everyone else. I used to know when to sleep because the sun was comming up sad.gif
    The Problem With Opportunity Is That It Only Knocks,
    While Temptation Kicks The Door In


  • booogerboooger Members Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22274Posts: 223
    I feel that most MMORPG's don't deserve the RPG at the end of their definition, and rather it should go something like MMOMLG (massively multiplayer online monotonous leveling game). I played the Lineage 2 beta for about a week, and while this first week was rather fun, I came to the realization after speaking with some people a good number of levels higher than me: it doesn't change. There's no cool quests, or some ever-evolving storyline. Just a bunch of "killing mobs" and getting new skills. In fact, the number of skills decreases (and these more elite skills are no more fun than the ones currently presented), and you have to kill more. And by more, I meant to say an obscene amount. Somewhere in the range of killing thousands upon thousands to gain that next level. How is that role playing?

    In all - I would like MMORPG's if the last three letters actually applied to something within the game and not some ambiguous title that really stands for MMOMLG.
    Gedran reveals his head from the shadows and begins to unzip his pantaloons. Gedran removes his Dwarven Hand Cannon and begins to stroke the barrel ever so slowly. Gedran lets out a quiet gasp as the cannon begins to expand in his hand. Artemisa growls menacingly at you. Inotep growls “…You need to leave…” Gedran trys to disguise himself as a tree and makes crow noises.
  • XzilenXzilen Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11642Posts: 2,253
    QUOTE (boooger @ Apr 7 2004, 10:30 PM)
    I feel that most MMORPG's don't deserve the RPG at the end of their definition, and rather it should go something like MMOMLG (massively multiplayer online monotonous leveling game). I played the Lineage 2 beta for about a week, and while this first week was rather fun, I came to the realization after speaking with some people a good number of levels higher than me: it doesn't change. There's no cool quests, or some ever-evolving storyline. Just a bunch of "killing mobs" and getting new skills. In fact, the number of skills decreases (and these more elite skills are no more fun than the ones currently presented), and you have to kill more. And by more, I meant to say an obscene amount. Somewhere in the range of killing thousands upon thousands to gain that next level. How is that role playing?

    In all - I would like MMORPG's if the last three letters actually applied to something within the game and not some ambiguous title that really stands for MMOMLG.

    Yes, if you were to get additional quests and what not it would make leveling more highly appreciated.
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  • TSAYautja_CetanuTSAYautja_Cetanu Members Join Date: 2004-04-10 Member: 27825Posts: 27
    SWG does NOT encourage Role playing. NO ONE role plays on SWG!!!!


    Ultima Online had more Roleplaying then SWG ever had. I've come across some roleplayers about once in SWG.

    Anyway. one of the first people is right. Try the less main stream MMORPGs.

    I beta tested an UMMORPG (Ultra-massively...) called Wish online. That had AMAZING amounts of role playing, because it had just one huge server the developers had a story line that was changing every day. And this was just in a beta. It had a new newspaper with information on what is happening with the lords etc, and some of the lords were played by the developers.

    You'll never get lots of roleplaying in mainstream mmorpgs cause there are so many FPS people there.
  • Fro5tyFro5ty Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-09-26 Member: 21238Posts: 486
    I used to play D2, got addicted to it and my school grades suffered. After about half a year, I realized I was doing the exact samething over and over again and it wasn't fun. Especially during the patch brigade of Blizzard's that would nerf every class and force you to go back two acts in order to survive a monster attack and level up.

    After that time, I came to the conclusion that such games aren't for me. I'll play a game online occasionally, but games where most of the fun lies in online play (BF, and a lot of games) aren't for me. I just don't like how the online world feels when it comes to playing. You'll come across someone that will learn to exploit something to their own benefit then they tell a friend that tells some of their friends and then everyone is doing it. And usually, with such things, they take the fun out of games. Anyone remember their first time playing CS? Even the average player knew the AK pulled up and to the right and they would use that to their advantage. Then there you are, getting destroyed online constantly by people that know of it and not having much fun.

    I have to agree, Skulk's skill system would be best. You'd have people realize what has to be done in the world and make a character tailored for that purpose and join a group. But there should still be some form of advancement, even if rather minute. Say you're playing a futuristic MMORPG like game. Well, you have a character that is a great pilot of vehicles and a decent mech pilot, but when it comes to combat in the form of foot or in vehicles where you don't have a gunner, the character doesn't do too good. The way to fix this is either team up with people that are good gunners/fighters or spend time (I'm not talking hours, I'm talking weeks and MONTHS) to try and improve the character's skills.
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  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    QUOTE (Fr05t @ May 8 2004, 10:30 PM)
    I have to agree, Skulk's skill system would be best. You'd have people realize what has to be done in the world and make a character tailored for that purpose and join a group. But there should still be some form of advancement, even if rather minute. Say you're playing a futuristic MMORPG like game. Well, you have a character that is a great pilot of vehicles and a decent mech pilot, but when it comes to combat in the form of foot or in vehicles where you don't have a gunner, the character doesn't do too good. The way to fix this is either team up with people that are good gunners/fighters or spend time (I'm not talking hours, I'm talking weeks and MONTHS) to try and improve the character's skills.

    As far as I'm concerned my system handles this nicely. If you are a bad shot, you'll have to spend a long time teaching yourself (not you're character) how to shoot better, constantly adjusting you're mouse sensitivity and acceleration and practicing until you can shoot sparrows in mid flight. But really, if you're character isn't designed to be a gunner, then why isn't someone else filling that position? Isn't social interaction the whole point of an MMORPG? I guess I just feel that even if you give the players some INSANE requirements to improove a stat they'll find a way to write a script to punch cows all day (JA2 reference) for them, or hack the server, or otherwise ruin it for everybody who has put some honest effort into it. Besides, imagine what would happen if your character, who you'd recently spent six months improoving, died. In most MMORPGs this is relatively insignificant, in mine death is death , perminant. But its not a huge setback because you can easily recreate the character, or decide to create a different one with lower dexterity now that you can shoot so well.
    1.04ever
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