Are We Supposed To Be Scared?
mousiehamster
Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14534Members
Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14534Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Lack of exvacating during NS play!</div> Are we supposed to be scared when we play NS as marines? Because I'm certainly not scared. IMO making the game SCARY would make it real fun. As of currently, it's just "ah is there an alien down the hall? BAM! Crap I got killed. Damnit..."
I owe this to the uh, dog model - I mean skulk models. A small **** puppy ain't gonna scare no one, especially with the kind of noises it makes! The CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP just doens't sound scary at all. What we need is more squealing, roaring and also the model itself MUST INSPIRE FEAR I.E it should scare the crap outta me when I look at it. For instance, ALIENS (in the movie "Aliens") look pretty cool and scary at the same time. Although one is a film and the other is game, I'm pretty sure that if we are able to squeeze just a little bit of fear element into the game, it'll be alot more fun! Who agrees with me?
I owe this to the uh, dog model - I mean skulk models. A small **** puppy ain't gonna scare no one, especially with the kind of noises it makes! The CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP just doens't sound scary at all. What we need is more squealing, roaring and also the model itself MUST INSPIRE FEAR I.E it should scare the crap outta me when I look at it. For instance, ALIENS (in the movie "Aliens") look pretty cool and scary at the same time. Although one is a film and the other is game, I'm pretty sure that if we are able to squeeze just a little bit of fear element into the game, it'll be alot more fun! Who agrees with me?
Comments
But yeah, overall I agree, it's not the "surprising" element you had back in your first days, or when discovering a new map. Then again, the HL engine limitations means you can't have the perfect mood lighting and physics while keeping the game as easy of reach for most people.
boost it up to 25.
Thats fokin scary..
True-also tif you notice the lightining in some maps is bright. Like veil or EC, there are not alot of dark spots on the maps. If you load up, lets say, Caged where the lighting is darker, it adds alot more atmosphere.
Darker maps and greater amount of alien infestation is basically the only difference in atmosphere between now and 'back then'. Oh, and the lack of minimap probably helped too...
edit: by more infestation, I mean more alien buildings everywhere, not the mapper infestations.
Edit: Though it's not meant to be direct scary. The atmosphere gets scary. Not with scary sounds or ugly alien models, insted the game builds it up by itself, knowing that this or that action is vital. At that time, (hopefully, people get immune for sure) you're adrenaline start pumping. And being tense makes you "freak" more easily.
Now tell me how many time's you've played NS... and there you go!
While playing different maps can be a whole lot different, I do believe that is a good analogy. A lot rests on the mappers to make NS atmospheric.
Now tell me how many time's you've played NS... and there you go! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. That's because every time you watch the movie, it's exactly the same as the previous times.
Playing a multiplayer game isn't exactly the same as the last time. Players will be in different hiding spots. You will encounter different situations every time you play, also.
I would agree that the maps and lighting are the main factors in making a scary game, but not the only factors.
The only multiplayer game that freaked me out every time I played it was AvP (the original). I'm not sure if it still would today, though. I can't wait to see what MODs people will come up with when HL2 comes out (NS2 especially <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
Now tell me how many time's you've played NS... and there you go! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. That's because every time you watch the movie, it's exactly the same as the previous times.
Playing a multiplayer game isn't exactly the same as the last time. Players will be in different hiding spots. You will encounter different situations every time you play, also. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what? How would that change things to scare you?
"OMG he was to the LEFT and not the RIGHT AHH meh heart!"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just for your info: the problem with high entity counts is not the players' machines in first palce but the cpu and memory usage of the server. Currently NS is taking a LOT of resources compared to regular HL or DoD for example (also Steam itself is being quite a problem although they promised to improve server performance a lot of times... but that's another story). Also, as it was noted before, if you played a game for some time, you just don't get scared or exited easily anymore.
However, what scares me most nowdays is when I can HEAR skulks (and less so marines) moving around nearby me, but I can't SEE them. If they sneak up quietly and quickly kill me, thats frustrating but not scary. If they clamber all around the room making noise and I look and look but can't figure out where they are, THATS scary. This is most easily accomplished not with darkness (although shadows do help) but with obstacles and vents.
On the other hand, too many obstacles and vents just makes it hard for marines to fight effectively against skulks.
Just for your info: the problem with high entity counts is not the players' machines in first palce but the cpu and memory usage of the server. Currently NS is taking a LOT of resources compared to regular HL or DoD for example (also Steam itself is being quite a problem although they promised to improve server performance a lot of times... but that's another story). Also, as it was noted before, if you played a game for some time, you just don't get scared or exited easily anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also to further add to Solaris post, even if the high entity counts was the player's machine, not everyone can afford to "get with the times". People like me have to pay for university, food, etc. I want to play Natural Selection too, and it's in the best interest for the developers to make a game which has a larger fan base, than one with only players who can "get with the time."
In order to balance for small clan games, aliens have been nerfed to the point where the risk in medium or larger games is minimal.
In order to appeal to the hordes who don't know how to enjoy tension, the penalties of loss have been nerfed to almost nothing. You still get to watch your team play and fight.. heck, sometimes being dead is more entertaining than being alive if you've got a really good player on your team.
You want to bring the fear back? You have to make sacrifices elsewhere in the game. Things like making it so that alone is as good as dead for marines. Perhaps suffering with a death view that is.. well.. nothing.
Also, you need to slow down the game. Fear takes time to build.
If it's "See a skulk! Shoot shoot shoot! Laugh or Die" you have no time for tension to build. The way to build tension is to encourage ambushes. The way to encourage ambushes is to make the alien's melee attacks *more* effective and marines less effective in defending from them. You also need maps conducive to ambushes.. (and some of them really aren't). You need things set up in such a way that marines hate noise, because noise attracts death.
Of course, to balance that, the range attacks of the marines also have to be beefed up as well.. so that when they hear something coming, they have a chance to get it before it gets too close.
Ideally in my view, the game would be such that if a skulk saw you at the end of the hallway, it doesn't even think of approaching. It turns around and runs because anything else is pure suicide. To encourage this behavior also falls to the map-makers.. there need to be easy ways for aliens to get around and try to surprise the marines. At the same time, marines need places to fall back to which.. while not necessarily safe, give them some range to fire from.. if they can watch a couple of directions at once.
Shock horror - being surprised by the unexpected (i.e. me scaring mum just when she pops out of the toilet)
Visual fear (Seeing scary stuff for a few brief moments)
Suggestive fear (I.e. non-visual fear, developed through sounds usually, and lack of light)
Desperation (Slim chances of survival?)
Intangible fear (Mind conjurin' tricks, i.e. u know the aliens are SOMEWHERE, just that you can't see 'em or hear 'em.)
IMO if fear is promoted then stuff like HA and 2 hit-kill bites should go away. Things that improve DEFENCE should go whilst stuff that relates to offense could stay. It just isn't scary when you know that a skulk will take X+6 bites to kill you and you could calmly look at him in the eye while he's chompin' and take your time shootin' him!
Yea, nothing like a good ambush to wake you up <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Guys, if you are looking to be scared, its simply not going to happen on a game that you play many times over (as stated before). The best you can hope for is some of em shock scares, and probably a bit better atmosphere. Unless the game threatens actual bodily harm, its just not going to happen.
Now tell me how many time's you've played NS... and there you go! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. That's because every time you watch the movie, it's exactly the same as the previous times.
Playing a multiplayer game isn't exactly the same as the last time. Players will be in different hiding spots. You will encounter different situations every time you play, also. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what? How would that change things to scare you?
"OMG he was to the LEFT and not the RIGHT AHH meh heart!"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
At a very basic level, yea. In a movie the guy will always be on the left. You're not gonna be scared, shocked, or surprised.
Now tell me how many time's you've played NS... and there you go! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course not. That's because every time you watch the movie, it's exactly the same as the previous times.
Playing a multiplayer game isn't exactly the same as the last time. Players will be in different hiding spots. You will encounter different situations every time you play, also. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what? How would that change things to scare you?
"OMG he was to the LEFT and not the RIGHT AHH meh heart!"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At a very basic level, yea. In a movie the guy will always be on the left. You're not gonna be scared, shocked, or surprised. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the movie scared you badly the first time, why wouldn't it do it a second time? Or a third time? Or infinity times?
It's not really subjecting yourself to the same thing over and over again that makes you not fear it, it's the fact once you see something worse the old thing will be lamer and paler in comparision.
Really, NS would be a much scarier game had we not watched a bunch of horror flicks or disturbing movies (Anyone seen Clockwork Orange or Seven? lol )
I know repition will lose the scare factor, but only after A LOT. The main killer of NS's atmosphere will always be other games/movies that do it better than NS. Hate to be blunt on this.
Oh and Rennex, I too get startled once in a bit, I remember one time a skulk made me gleek (where spit sorta involuntarly flies outta your mouth). Of course, I'm not sure if it's the fear of LOSING, or actually DYING in an online video game which causes us to fear dying.
Come to think of it, this is a discussion forum topic, lol
*A lone marine trying to sneak into hive to build a PG when you know aliens have 4 onos running around. That's one twitchy marine.
*Prior to building a second hive, the entire alien team.
Other than that, aliens are so weak right now, there is no reason for marines to be frightened by them. Marines, especially in the beginning of the game, have a big advantage over aliens. A single marine can take on two to three early-game skulks simulateously, unless they flank him. And being that marines stick in groups, it is usually the aliens who are more terrified of marines than the other way around.
My thoughts exactly. Nothing like hearing a skulk behind you, turning around, and not seeing a thing.
Movies are not games - games can be scary the umpteenth time you play them.
Two games come to mind, both of which I have played through many times, and each time they have me on the edge. Thief: TDP and System Shock 2.
Both games concentrate on atmosphere, and give the player a sense of "I'm outnumbered and overpowered. If I don't be quiet and use some strategy and timing, I will meet some horrible fate." And when you are attacked in those games, its frantic and heart pounding. Why? Because odds are against you. And it doesn't get less nerve rattling as you play it more. In fact, it can get more intense as you are drawn into the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You need things set up in such a way that marines hate noise, because noise attracts death.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right on.
Movies are not games - games can be scary the umpteenth time you play them.
Two games come to mind, both of which I have played through many times, and each time they have me on the edge. Thief: TDP and System Shock 2.
Both games concentrate on atmosphere, and give the player a sense of "I'm outnumbered and overpowered. If I don't be quiet and use some strategy and timing, I will meet some horrible fate." And when you are attacked in those games, its frantic and heart pounding. Why? Because odds are against you. And it doesn't get less nerve rattling as you play it more. In fact, it can get more intense as you are drawn into the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You need things set up in such a way that marines hate noise, because noise attracts death.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The second time through SS2 I was looting enemies before they hit the ground and rushing on to the next objective. Atmosphere is great at the start, but after you play a while, your brain moves the atmosphere to the back, putting tactics in front.
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Kubrick rocks.
Except eyes wide shut...stupid masked orgies. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->