NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
edited April 2004
i'd like to talk a little about what Fieari spoke about. Sentience also means knowledge of self. the ability to question why "you" exist. Apes do not Question why they exist... "how" they exist or why things are the way they are. Animals do not Question. in my opinion what seperates mankind's Sentience (consiousness) from the animals is the fact that we "question" things. we wonder "what is the nature of sentience?" "why am i wondering about the nature of sentience?"
con·scious·ness ( P ) Pronunciation Key (*cannot be displayed*) n.
1. The state or condition of being conscious. <i> 2. A sense of one's personal or collective identity, including the attitudes, beliefs, and sensitivities held by or considered characteristic of an individual or group: Love of freedom runs deep in the national consciousness. </i>
1. Special awareness or sensitivity: class consciousness; race consciousness. 2. Alertness to or concern for a particular issue or situation: a movement aimed at raising the general public's consciousness of social injustice. 4. In psychoanalysis, the conscious.
just popped into my head <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit : (on a side note, how many of you have noticed that this marine smily --> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-- is using the the really really old HMG model,) (the old GL model used to be the HMG model.)
I actually think that philosophy has more to do with it then science. I think Neiztche and Sarte got it pretty right. I'm probably going to butcher their words, sorry. Also, these are really small parts of their philosophy, just plucking out what's useful to the topic. And I'm paraphrasing a lot.
Neiztche: For millions of years, mankind existed withoutsentience. Man communicated naturally. Then, laungauge was created... why? It was create to communicate would could not be done naturally. Much in the same way, our sentience only involves a fraction of our bodies functions. We don't think to breath, walk, although our concious mind can control them. We can't stop our heart from beating, though some Buddhists would probably come pretty close. Our mind makes us aware of process that cannot be communicated naturally. This on it's own is pretty revolutionary. The thoughts we think aren't what we think; rather, it is our mind's unconcious thoughts being made aware to us. I don't know if that made sense, but it's hard to describe.
Sarte: Pretty simple. The ONLY reason mankind is self aware is because of The Other. The Other is everything that is not us. The Other cannot be control by us, and is the ultuimate expression of repression upon us. If we were all that existed, we would not be sentient. Because we must interact with The Other, we are sentient.
To explain Descartes's idea that what you see from the outside is truly what you perceive in your brain with the flaw that there is no way to prove or disprove that, Berkley stepped in and completely wiped out the problem by saying that things outside the brain do not exist.
He basically said, we are all "minds." What we do not perceive, does not exist. Something has to be perceived in order to exist, so by his theory, if everybody walked out of a room and forgot about it, it would not exist until someone returned. So how would it exist once you returned?
He believes God perceives everything, so everything exists for this reason. This was his way of showing how God created the "universe" as well as demonstrating that perhaps all we are are just "minds" to perceive the world as God showed to us, and in fact, that all we are is God's "perception" which is why we exist.
Comments
con·scious·ness ( P ) Pronunciation Key (*cannot be displayed*)
n.
1. The state or condition of being conscious.
<i> 2. A sense of one's personal or collective identity, including the attitudes, beliefs, and sensitivities held by or considered characteristic of an individual or group: Love of freedom runs deep in the national consciousness. </i>
1. Special awareness or sensitivity: class consciousness; race consciousness.
2. Alertness to or concern for a particular issue or situation: a movement aimed at raising the general public's consciousness of social injustice.
4. In psychoanalysis, the conscious.
just popped into my head <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit : (on a side note, how many of you have noticed that this marine smily --> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-- is using the the really really old HMG model,) (the old GL model used to be the HMG model.)
I actually think that philosophy has more to do with it then science. I think Neiztche and Sarte got it pretty right. I'm probably going to butcher their words, sorry. Also, these are really small parts of their philosophy, just plucking out what's useful to the topic. And I'm paraphrasing a lot.
Neiztche:
For millions of years, mankind existed withoutsentience. Man communicated naturally. Then, laungauge was created... why? It was create to communicate would could not be done naturally. Much in the same way, our sentience only involves a fraction of our bodies functions. We don't think to breath, walk, although our concious mind can control them. We can't stop our heart from beating, though some Buddhists would probably come pretty close. Our mind makes us aware of process that cannot be communicated naturally. This on it's own is pretty revolutionary. The thoughts we think aren't what we think; rather, it is our mind's unconcious thoughts being made aware to us. I don't know if that made sense, but it's hard to describe.
Sarte: Pretty simple. The ONLY reason mankind is self aware is because of The Other. The Other is everything that is not us. The Other cannot be control by us, and is the ultuimate expression of repression upon us. If we were all that existed, we would not be sentient. Because we must interact with The Other, we are sentient.
Did that make any sense? :-p
To explain Descartes's idea that what you see from the outside is truly what you perceive in your brain with the flaw that there is no way to prove or disprove that, Berkley stepped in and completely wiped out the problem by saying that things outside the brain do not exist.
He basically said, we are all "minds." What we do not perceive, does not exist. Something has to be perceived in order to exist, so by his theory, if everybody walked out of a room and forgot about it, it would not exist until someone returned. So how would it exist once you returned?
He believes God perceives everything, so everything exists for this reason. This was his way of showing how God created the "universe" as well as demonstrating that perhaps all we are are just "minds" to perceive the world as God showed to us, and in fact, that all we are is God's "perception" which is why we exist.