Hand Grenades

Trevelyan

<div class="IPBDescription">When/Where/What</div> Handgrenades always seemed like a mystery to me... Seems like everyone just does the catpack thing and gets em at the end when the res count is 200+. However I've seen a few coms research this RIGHT off the bat (after dropping first armory) and utalize them quite effectivly (which usually means constantly reminding marines to use them).

My general question to the more expirienced coms is this: When do you research Handgrenades, Where do you use them, and What do you use them on?

Edit: Newbie coms may feel free to join in the discussion ^_^

Ballisto

I've seen hand nades used VERY EFFECTIVELY in a hive rush. 6 nades thrown at once at a hive + 6 guys unloading into it = dead hive. Takes a little discipline, getting everyone to the hive in piece (phase anyone?) at the same time, and making sure noone shoots to ruin the surprise. Shotguns add to the fun.

Ajurian

Handgrenades are extremely useful when there's skulks hiding behind your RTs. Especially handy when there is more than one. Just make sure you pull the pin somewhere where they cant hear you, got 3 skulks at Station Access node (ns_eclipse) that way, they never saw/heard it comming. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Kobayashi

Hand Grenades + MT = your anti-ambush
Hand Grenades + vent = your anti-lerks

Iounno. not that useful in these situations, they happen to infrequently.

Hand Grenades also = your anti-OC outpost

basically, if you actually have marines who fight as a group, you don't need seiges to clear out places. This is what I'd use them for. No-one will ever complain about not having a gl again. kinda infrequent happening again.


My conclusion: kinda a specialized tool. I still always research it quite early, as it's only 20 res and if you need some portable artillery, you have it.

Trevelyan

Excellent input... Just commed a game recently and i must emphasize this point: Always remind your marines they have them. If they run across any massed buildings of any type, remind them.

Also, I've been digging in some older posts and found a great strat (worth noting but most likely widely known). If you have a phase going down to multipul skulks/lerks/whatnot prime your nade before going in and let go... you always get the thing thrown before you die (if you die that fast... which happens alot going through phases). Usually you can bag one or even clear out the area for a bit for the next rine to come through.

Kobayashi

LOL, I think that's the single biggest problem with hand grenades - marines forget tehy have them =P

Buggy

The biggest problem with hand grenades is the fact it takes half an hour to throw them.

"Aha, skulk hiding behind rt. perfect chance to use my hand grenade"

*Skulk sees the nade, starts rushing marine*

"oh, dang! K, almost pulled out the pin...just a lil more....there!"

*skulk chuckles as the grenade rolls on the floor and takes another 3 seconds to explode*

*CHOMP CHOMP*

... no really, theyre not worth the mere 20 res it costs, honest. Not because of the cost, but because of the ineffectiveness, and the general marine being misled by its effectiveness. or something. Grens just arent better weapons than your bog standard lmg/pistol or even knife IMHO

FoolishOne9k

Personally I find hand grenades to be very useful (In NS not CO). with mt you can kill almsot anyhting. I've killed 4 skulks with one before as they munched on our tf or throw it into a romm ahead of you or in vents to clear it out (gotten far to many kills form these strats). I've actually been banned form a pub or two cause they thought i hacked because of these strats.

But about the long throw time it is VERY annoying. it should be shortend to be a little faster than the cs throw.

Trevelyan

yea considering how they are now... they only need a shorter throw time for them to be used effectively.

Apocalypse

IMO, Hand-grenades have a negative impact. In general, marines either don't use them effectively or use them improperly (eg. Teammate is underattack, his partner whips out a nade and throws it, in the 20 minutes it takes to throw it, the skulk finished off both of them.) The only effective use is priming it before going into a skulk infested pg and dropping it as you enter. The grenade does a measly 100 dmg = 10 lvl 0 Lmg bullets, so it does not cut it for taking down OCs or hives. I would say cutting down the throw time and allowing some way to get more nades might make it more effective. However, I don't think it will ever have a real effect on clan matches because it is too unpredictable.

Fro5ty

I use it as a suppression tool. Know there are skulks coming. Pull out nade and throw. Several hear it and stop far away from it. A few run into the blast and die/are hurt and I finish off the stragglers. Usually, another teammate has come or I have just distracted half of the alien team. Dunno about Apocalypse, but 5 grenades = 500 damage pretty much instantly not to mention 250 lvl 2 (12 dmg) lmgs shooting the hive = 3500. That's in a few seconds. The hive is down to less than half health, and usually the aliens don't realize that it's under attack until it says "Our hive is dieing" or is dead. (Damn idiots...) The most I've seen of skulks in 10 seconds is 3 on average, and those are easily dispatched with your other team mates blasting the hive. But now imagine having a sg or two in there. Put, they provide a rather quick 100 points of damage at a safe, bounceable distance.

Kobayashi

I amend my statement - The biggest problem with hand grenades is that the marines either forget about them, or use them in a stupid way.

They ARE useful. But only in certain circumstances. If you can't trust your marines to use them properly, then don't get them. IF you can, then by all means, get them.

SLizer

Yes i think that the grannies are excellent anti-tools, you can kill those skulk/lerks on the went and also to get 5 guys with grannies to hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> PWN!

I think that the best thing about is it`s fast and cheap to get and with MT you can wreack havoc like tiger with catalyst.

The cons are that ppl just forget they have it and often waste them in some strange situations (eek! skulk is killed by turret time to get my granny.)
AND that terrible throwing time, but i think it was made slow just the reason that it can now be efficently used if you know what to do. -----> faster throwing would-i think- spawn masses of kids just throwing them brainless. It needs some older AND WISER guy to use them, not the L337 HaX0R55!11

It was also so annoying in 2.0 when skulk`s took out your resources towers while you tried to shoot those little devils behind it. BUT now just get pinned of across the corner and bang!

over and out...

Renholder

the only effective use of hand-grenades that i've seen is where you phase in with a hand-grenade and kill a buynch of skulks chomping on the phase gate. But it's only 20 res, so there's no reason not to get it when all other major upgrades are done, and before you drop stuff related to your proto.

ApolloGX

you arent going to want to use 20 res for that so early in the game

and in the mid game, you want to up your armory, so you cant use it to up nades

nades come late game and are unneffective for their res count

EQX

I think we all have our favorite nade stories... but we also have our favorite knife stories too. 20 res is too expensive early and mid, since you want to use it to get arms, rts, upgrades, etc...

The throwing time takes a LONG time to huck it. A skulk can just run at you, kill you, then run away. Around corners, a good skulk can see OR hear the nade and just back off. Against a hive, you will deal more damage by shooting at it. For base defence, mine packs work better.

Far too often, marines forget about having gernades and frankly, that is sometimes a good thing.

1 Gernade = 10 lmg bullets = 5 pistol bullets

Unless your an uber nader who is capable of launching it "just right"... getting nades is a waste of resources.

Al_Kaholic

I've seen Hand Grenades researched and put to effective use about 8 minutes into a game. It does wonders for teams assaulting enemy Hives and can shread through OCs. They seem to make great steps before the Comm decides to upgrade the Armory and hand out Grenade Launchers, seeing as this approach can be too costly before ten minutes have passed in the game. One of the most annoying things though is that most Comms forget to research Hand Grenades until after they've lost their effectiveness.

MrKNifey

That's funny.........always thought handgranies did 2x damage to buildings......I don't remember...I have fastswitch on and autohelp off...

Al_Kaholic

Negatory, there's no difference in damage between the Hang Grenade and a Grenade Lanucher Grenade.

Ajurian

You sure? I thought HG did slightly less damage than the GL grens.

Chiaki

well....its just 20 res....and most FFA-teams have at least 2 ppl who know how to use them!!!! .......and in a 10 v 10 game....thats fine......you get an average 2 res per kill...so 10 kills get the 20 res home.....and since I get MT kinda early when I comm, I get nades too......I just tell the newbs 2 or 3 times over the mike, that if they see anything fast moving towards them on MT, its a skulk, so throw your nade at where that MTdot will be in a few secs and then the skulk will be weak/halted/scared/dead/whining about cheats....which is better than nothing

With a few good players on my team, nades bring the res home fast, and I think they do 2x damage to structures.....

Nades Pwn normal skulks.......cara can survive <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->(......level 3 cara and they have 30 hp left, but thats 1 slice with knife <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.......For personal use: I find that nade is brilliant...not for direct kill, but to weaken/scare off an incoming skulk/ lerk in vent. I rarely get direct kills with it, but I get alotta throw-nade, it blows next to skulk, skulk jumps at me, I slice skulk......and I find it a free kill....

If your rines know how to use them, theyre fun fun fun, but for PCWs Id really get standard upgrades first....

Chiaki

Hand-gren in beta3 = 100 dam
nade-launcher nade = 125 dam....I think