Hives, Chambers And Onos To Boot
Mr_Charisma
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12748Members, NS1 Playtester
DMS has been the dominant strategy throughout the entirety of NS' life. And argue what you will about how Movement or Sensory can be effective for early game play, you cannot deny the warm feeling that of Defense gives for "safe" Alien tactics. Despite this, the Chamber System has remained almost untouched through each version. I can not say I know why, but how I think it should be changed for the future..
Obviously, in the current system, the power of each chamber's upgrade is relative to the amount of that chamber the Aliens currently have. One chamber for one level. This has it's obvious advantages. But simply, this has played a minor role in the overall game play of Aliens. As 3 chambers are almost always placed at the start of the game, or the completion of a new hive. This makes this system in my eyes all but redundant.
From what I can see, this was created to give the Marines a extra "objective" to deal with whilst fighting the Kharaa. Allowing them to give a quick blow to the Aliens by taking out their upgrades.
The link between the Hive System and the Chamber System has always been the same. In my proposition, I suggest not removing that link altogether. But rather change the way that they are linked. Instead of limiting one chamber per hive. Have the power of the chamber's upgrades linked to the amount of hives (level 1 for 1 hive, 2 for 2 hives..).
With this of course, you would be able to get each chamber at hive 1. But in turn only have level 1 for each upgrade. This would not only make each chamber more viable. It also shifts the focus of Aliens from simply Hives and Resources; Chambers will now show an active role in Alien tactics.
The second issue is of course Onos. With 700 HP, and 600 amour. It is no doubt intended to be a behemoth unit, able to take massive amount of damage. This is of course well know to be far from the case. The Onos resembles something more of a giant bull’s-eye, rewarding whoever can keep out of it's path the longest.
I suggest, instead of giving the Onos yet another Health boost, but to give the Onos damage modifiers. Much the same as the ones already seen regarding the HMG vs Structures, and the Onos against Turrets. As a starting number, I would suggest 75% damage taken from all weapons. This would give the Onos a considerable power boost, without having to make an major changes to it's physics. Or any other's for that matter.
These suggestions may have already been put forward. But these are simply what I feel will bring NS a more diverse game play.
Obviously, in the current system, the power of each chamber's upgrade is relative to the amount of that chamber the Aliens currently have. One chamber for one level. This has it's obvious advantages. But simply, this has played a minor role in the overall game play of Aliens. As 3 chambers are almost always placed at the start of the game, or the completion of a new hive. This makes this system in my eyes all but redundant.
From what I can see, this was created to give the Marines a extra "objective" to deal with whilst fighting the Kharaa. Allowing them to give a quick blow to the Aliens by taking out their upgrades.
The link between the Hive System and the Chamber System has always been the same. In my proposition, I suggest not removing that link altogether. But rather change the way that they are linked. Instead of limiting one chamber per hive. Have the power of the chamber's upgrades linked to the amount of hives (level 1 for 1 hive, 2 for 2 hives..).
With this of course, you would be able to get each chamber at hive 1. But in turn only have level 1 for each upgrade. This would not only make each chamber more viable. It also shifts the focus of Aliens from simply Hives and Resources; Chambers will now show an active role in Alien tactics.
The second issue is of course Onos. With 700 HP, and 600 amour. It is no doubt intended to be a behemoth unit, able to take massive amount of damage. This is of course well know to be far from the case. The Onos resembles something more of a giant bull’s-eye, rewarding whoever can keep out of it's path the longest.
I suggest, instead of giving the Onos yet another Health boost, but to give the Onos damage modifiers. Much the same as the ones already seen regarding the HMG vs Structures, and the Onos against Turrets. As a starting number, I would suggest 75% damage taken from all weapons. This would give the Onos a considerable power boost, without having to make an major changes to it's physics. Or any other's for that matter.
These suggestions may have already been put forward. But these are simply what I feel will bring NS a more diverse game play.
Comments
Agreed on all points. And while I think of it, can we please make the 3rd hive Onos ability something actually useful?
In all seriousness a single third Hive Onos should be all but a game ender for the marines. Two third Hive Onos should be game over within 60 seconds. None of this 15 minute slog killing encamped marines, but an ability that's so ball breaking that even a singlel third hive onos can walk in there and decimate the base in seconds.
Some perspective -- this is the highest ability, on the higest life form, at the higest number of hives. This is the highest possible ability to get in the game. When aliens can afford 3 hives and an Onos, this ability alone should finish the game quick smart.
maybe if the first 3 chamber placed at the start, and after each subsequent hive afftect upgrades.
this system sounds ok, but is a little harsh imho ( who wants Lvl 1 silence? when you could have level 2 regen and lvl 1 cloak etc..)
the only downside to this is, do aliens really need this boost right now?
The second suggestion... Yes, onos is weak, being practically useless vs. anything but turret farms and picking lone heavies. But would "damage resistance" be the solution here? In other words; giving every life-form different damage modifiers?
This has been suggested many times, and each time I hear it the less I like it.
Seriously, I think one lv. 3 upgrade is more useful than 3 lv. 1 upgrades.
Lv. 1 upgrades SUCK. Terribly.
Of course you could change it so lv. 1 upgrades are better, but then you go back to making more hives less of a nessesity and then you really aren't changing anything.
I'd say a better solution would be to make it so you can build chambers anywhere, at any time, and the amount of hives you have only limits how many upgrades you can get at once.
So say you have 3 D's, 2 M's, and 1 S, and one hive
You could either get a lv. 3 D ability, or a lv. 2 M ability, or a lv. 1 S ability.
Get the idea?
The balancing factor of this would be the cost.
Honestly, how many clan games do you play where chambers are spammed everywhere? Res still is needed for bigger lifeforms, and hives, so the limit at which you could get them is still pretty slow.
The main unbalncing factor of this is that the passive abilities of the chambers could be used. If you go 3 D's first and one gorge places a sensory chamber in a vent somewhere, then you would have a cloaking regen/fade.
Solution to this is just to make it so if you want to use the cloaking field of a sensory chamber, then you must also have a sensory chamber upgrade.
If all of this was done you would have a really diverse upgrade path system for aliens that could literally change every game and not punish them for it.
Agreed on all points. And while I think of it, can we please make the 3rd hive Onos ability something actually useful?
In all seriousness a single third Hive Onos should be all but a game ender for the marines. Two third Hive Onos should be game over within 60 seconds. None of this 15 minute slog killing encamped marines, but an ability that's so ball breaking that even a singlel third hive onos can walk in there and decimate the base in seconds.
Some perspective -- this is the highest ability, on the higest life form, at the higest number of hives. This is the highest possible ability to get in the game. When aliens can afford 3 hives and an Onos, this ability alone should finish the game quick smart. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha. This was actually discussed in the original "An Uber Suggestion For 1.1" thread that YOU made. This idea dates back that far. In fact, FLAYRA brought it up there.
check it out: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20615' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=20615</a>
Flayra commented on first page.
edit: and yes, for you unbelievers, thats Flayra posting in I&S <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I note he also mentioned THAT in his post. Very interesting concept, I wonder what ever happened with it?
I note he also mentioned THAT in his post. Very interesting concept, I wonder what ever happened with it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what I was talking about...
anywho, there it is for you lazy ones <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You still keep the game based around what lifeforms the Aleins go for. Im suggesting creating overall a more diverse Alein game (even if this has been suggested many-a-time).
check it out: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20615' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=20615</a>
Flayra commented on first page.
edit: and yes, for you unbelievers, thats Flayra posting in I&S <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha so he did! I forgot about that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->