I've used IPrushes alot...Im not comm, im grunt....footie <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->........and although I find that if your team has skills then the only thing I ever encountered that halted the advance was: Cheaters (damn them), SC ..damn cloaking-focus-combi......and if the comm places the IPs next to each other...I can easily cover 3-4 IPs as skulk unless Im accidently telefragged...as long as the IPs are close to each other!!
As for SC.....it works GREAT!!!!....an SC in the hive area, and one that covers the PG area (in a vent I would assume) + a third so they cloak fast!!!
2 gorges in the hive is VERY handy....heal-spray for the hive, hard to kill (hive heals them, they have cover + backup) and spit v no upgrades...thats not impossible......3 spit = 1 bite, and as cover-fire for the skulks its nothing less than PERFECT.......
Thats dead marines.....
Ofcourse there is a small idea that I use against this.....marines make LOTS of noice....aliens do too.... IF the aliens dont make noice, its because they are sitting still....so just take your lmg and spray the path you are gonna walk in...your lmg can cover alotta grounds with 50 beans, and reloads quickly.....
Ofcourse Ive been at IPrushes in PCWs...I remember some detailed ones.....5 of them in fact <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->...but Ive been in many more <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2 went as planned, we all stormed/sneaked to main hive..relocated and went in and pounded the hive...3 IPs....CC....and once we were expecting SC, so we got obs asap, other time armory....
1 time we stormed there......and suddenly on the way there....snap, snap, snap 3 parasites and all aliens knew the idea....they were in hive in NO TIME...we relocated outside, and had mere luck that they tried to rush us together....6 dead aliens and we could spawnkill them.....2 IPs, 1 CC, 1 TF and two sieges as fast as we could get it...hive poof
1 time we got there....and we got the IPs up...and then 4 skulks came...3 died and 1 spawnkilled us all cause the IPs were too close..........the comm got out and kileld it, but that skulk had gotten 11 frags by then...and we found out later that he had been getting a hive as soon as he spawned...........(25 res start, 22 res for 11 kills with 2 average res/kill......:S.... = 47....and with RT(s)......****...)
1 time, my nightmare, SC.....1 in hive, 3 total ..this was 2.0 so it was without focus...and we still got Pwned...totally......aliens could walk right in...even though we had an obs up at IPrush-point (sewer in ns_caged), we were in room next to sewer, (not at RTspot)........we got knocked over by ppl whom we owned in any form of normal combat............but these guys had a lerk behind them sporing the IPs.....not fun if its like all the time....1 gorge who did spit on the walk-way to the hive...and then some very irritating skulks who never gave up........they had 3 hives before we even killed the SC in their hive......so we got Pwned.....and that by ppl whom we would pwn in any other way...we just wanted to end the PCW quickly.......it ended 2-2 after they did a succesfull baserush in ns_veil....and we all realized we needed more training An important thing: they were clever enough to have 2 skulks go to marine start and finish off the RT + CC....no res at all except from what we got from kills....kinda bad since we didnt kill much............
Just a thought... this might cost too much res... but with an armory you could add shotguns and nades into the mix - both deadly against hives. One 1337 with a sg could hold the pg while the team pummels the hive.
But that's probably too res intensive. I'd say a good rush though in that time juuust before the fades show up.
a) there will be no time for fades to appear b) there will be no aliens going elsewhere to put up more hives c) your lone marine slinking around getting rts won't have enough time to build more than 2 d) all your res went into ips, shotties, or medspam e) the phase-gate just means you're a little slower getting there, but it also means you're a little faster getting set-up once you're there
If a, b, c ,or d <b>DID NOT</b> happen then that is not a rush. That's just trying to make a forward base sometime later in the game.
e is just a slight variation. Doing this means you'll drag out the endgame, and teh eventual alien win, because you've wasted all your starting res, and the aliens got a whole buncha RFK. If you did NOT waste all your starting res, then what kinda rush did you try?
and why the hell would you need to defend the pg? either a) your marines are not dying, and are all shooting the hive, meaning you just won b) your marines are dying, in which case the ones phasing back are enough to defend it
The aliens do not have time to put up any sort of defense. The marines do not have the res or time to tech anything (even PGs waste 65 res getting set-up. I'd rather just reloc outside thier hive and pummel it like that, using the 65 res for an armoury and 5 shotties)
This is all supposed to happen in the first 2-3 mins. If it doesn't then it's not a rush. It's just the same old pressure on a hive (who doesn't actually drop a pg when they're attacking a hive mid-late game?) Which you'd have to be stupid not to do.
Side note: In the time frames you guys are talking about, (4-5 mins) the element of surprise is totally lost, and a rush now just means that the aliens second hive will be lamed up well. If fades come into the equation, it's already too late.
He said the aliens couldn't stop it even when they knew it was coming. I don't care how committed a rush it is, if aliens are expecting it, then they have time to get OC's, and either a SC near where the PG will go, or DC's near the hive, and possibly a lerk. Therefore, this rush should not work against aliens that are expecting it.
If the aliens know it's coming, and have those minutes to prepare a well thought out defense, then it's a damn bad rush. Even it they notice you right when you leave the base, it's less than a minute to the hive. sometimes less than half a minute.
The reason relocating is not as good as pg b/c at the begining of the game all the aliens are at the hive and coming toward you. It will be very hard to setup cc by hive with no reinforcements. You can spend the first min building and let the aliens move out some plus a pg takes far less time to build then a cc plus 3 ips and if your whole team is dead you can beacon and have a pg to the hive.
The reason why this is hard to defend against(considering you have descent marines) is the massive respawn rate. If a o chamber is put down its only good against 1 or 2 marines. 6 marines will rape it in a sec. A lerk can gas the marines but if he tries to bite he will die. Remember the aliens have to kill at least 3 marines every time they repsawn and they can not allow their reinforcement cue to get large. If both teams have a large cue the marines can beacon and then it will be 6v2.
Never give out an armory. The marines will hump it and they WILL die faster than they can use all ammo. When the aliens are all in cue then ammo spam you should have the res by then.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whoever said hive in 2 min lies unless playing 5v5 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On a pub server its not the hardest thing you can do. Just because you haven't seen it done doesn't necessarily make it lies.
as i said before, this works perfect if you can get all the aliens into que. if you cant, then they WILL run around and destroy you. either they get a second hive, or they take out your PG, or they sit next to your ip's and spawnkill you. or, if there are enough of them outside the hive, all three. and if you distress becon and pull everyone back to base, then that gives the aliens in the que getting spawnkilled time to recover or take out your PG on that end.
You can get upgrades going while doing this. That way if there is a tie where it seems no one is gaining ground then all of a sudden level 1 armor WTH I bit him 2 times noooooo.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is all supposed to happen in the first 2-3 mins. If it doesn't then it's not a rush. It's just the same old pressure on a hive (who doesn't actually drop a pg when they're attacking a hive mid-late game?) Which you'd have to be stupid not to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hello? are you guys reading? rushing means you hit then around the 2 min mark.
You guys are talking about things that generally happen around 5-7 mins.
Yet you say that you're pg rushing. and then you go on and talk about arms labs and upgrades and all sorts of things that CAN'T POSSIBLY HAPPEN.
If you have enough res to drop an arms lab and get armour 1, why not drop an armoury and 3 shotties? or 3 packs of mines?
If you have 65 res to waste on PGs, why not just drop even MORE mines and shotties? and medspam while your'e at it?
why not just try to WIN instead of assuming you're going to lose and getting a back-up plan?
Using a phase gate means that it is a slow rush. It takes 45 seconds to research phase gates, plus building the observatory, plus building phase gates at two locations. That is enough time for a skulk to get to your base, see that all you have is an observatory, then set up an ambush position. So, even if the marines can get to the hive in under a minute, if they want to take advantage of their superior spawn rate, it will take about a minute for this rush to begin, assuming that everything works flawlessly.
3 ips = 60 res 2 pg + ob + research=65 res the armory needed would be recycled. 125 res is not hard to get within 1.5min considering you start with 100. So you can have everything up and people phasing through at exactly 2min. Build the ob before ips to increase speed rate.
The rest of res should be spent on med packs and ammo. If you have an armory they will hump it. The whole arms lab thing is only if after 2 minutes you are keeping the aliens in the hive but cant get in there and kill it and the aliens cant get to your pg.
<!--QuoteBegin-BreakfastSausages+Mar 26 2004, 07:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BreakfastSausages @ Mar 26 2004, 07:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This only applies if marines are going WITHOUT armor 1, if marines go for armor 1 asap or you just dont like sensory do this:
1) set up lots of ambushes in active areas, if 6 marines leave base and you kill 1 at each intersection, by the time they reach the hive they will all be dead, or there won't be enough to secure a pg.
2) get several nodes. if marines are focusing hard on the main hive it should be easy to have a quick res flow without defending nodes.
3) get 3 defense chambers. If possible hide them in such a way that they will be relatively safe yet heal areas where marines want to hold. If that is not possible get them by the hive so it is harder for them to rush in and win.
4) get fades, a single good fade has a good chance of slowing down the marine team because they can't afford alot of arms lab upgrades or shotties when they spent extra on fast phase and extra ips instead of nodes. The key thing to remember is that the fade's job is to DELAY, and STAY ALIVE, don't try to be a hero and kill all the marines at once. Try using blink to cause trouble in marine start, anything you can think of to make them react to you instead of following their original plan.
5) get more hives
6) win <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> or just use a lerk like any sensible team
Comments
As for SC.....it works GREAT!!!!....an SC in the hive area, and one that covers the PG area (in a vent I would assume) + a third so they cloak fast!!!
2 gorges in the hive is VERY handy....heal-spray for the hive, hard to kill (hive heals them, they have cover + backup) and spit v no upgrades...thats not impossible......3 spit = 1 bite, and as cover-fire for the skulks its nothing less than PERFECT.......
Thats dead marines.....
Ofcourse there is a small idea that I use against this.....marines make LOTS of noice....aliens do too....
IF the aliens dont make noice, its because they are sitting still....so just take your lmg and spray the path you are gonna walk in...your lmg can cover alotta grounds with 50 beans, and reloads quickly.....
Ofcourse Ive been at IPrushes in PCWs...I remember some detailed ones.....5 of them in fact <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->...but Ive been in many more <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2 went as planned, we all stormed/sneaked to main hive..relocated and went in and pounded the hive...3 IPs....CC....and once we were expecting SC, so we got obs asap, other time armory....
1 time we stormed there......and suddenly on the way there....snap, snap, snap 3 parasites and all aliens knew the idea....they were in hive in NO TIME...we relocated outside, and had mere luck that they tried to rush us together....6 dead aliens and we could spawnkill them.....2 IPs, 1 CC, 1 TF and two sieges as fast as we could get it...hive poof
1 time we got there....and we got the IPs up...and then 4 skulks came...3 died and 1 spawnkilled us all cause the IPs were too close..........the comm got out and kileld it, but that skulk had gotten 11 frags by then...and we found out later that he had been getting a hive as soon as he spawned...........(25 res start, 22 res for 11 kills with 2 average res/kill......:S.... = 47....and with RT(s)......****...)
1 time, my nightmare, SC.....1 in hive, 3 total ..this was 2.0 so it was without focus...and we still got Pwned...totally......aliens could walk right in...even though we had an obs up at IPrush-point (sewer in ns_caged), we were in room next to sewer, (not at RTspot)........we got knocked over by ppl whom we owned in any form of normal combat............but these guys had a lerk behind them sporing the IPs.....not fun if its like all the time....1 gorge who did spit on the walk-way to the hive...and then some very irritating skulks who never gave up........they had 3 hives before we even killed the SC in their hive......so we got Pwned.....and that by ppl whom we would pwn in any other way...we just wanted to end the PCW quickly.......it ended 2-2 after they did a succesfull baserush in ns_veil....and we all realized we needed more training
An important thing: they were clever enough to have 2 skulks go to marine start and finish off the RT + CC....no res at all except from what we got from kills....kinda bad since we didnt kill much............
But that's probably too res intensive. I'd say a good rush though in that time juuust before the fades show up.
to those of you who don't understand
a) there will be no time for fades to appear
b) there will be no aliens going elsewhere to put up more hives
c) your lone marine slinking around getting rts won't have enough time to build more than 2
d) all your res went into ips, shotties, or medspam
e) the phase-gate just means you're a little slower getting there, but it also means you're a little faster getting set-up once you're there
If a, b, c ,or d <b>DID NOT</b> happen then that is not a rush. That's just trying to make a forward base sometime later in the game.
e is just a slight variation. Doing this means you'll drag out the endgame, and teh eventual alien win, because you've wasted all your starting res, and the aliens got a whole buncha RFK. If you did NOT waste all your starting res, then what kinda rush did you try?
and why the hell would you need to defend the pg? either
a) your marines are not dying, and are all shooting the hive, meaning you just won
b) your marines are dying, in which case the ones phasing back are enough to defend it
The aliens do not have time to put up any sort of defense.
The marines do not have the res or time to tech anything (even PGs waste 65 res getting set-up. I'd rather just reloc outside thier hive and pummel it like that, using the 65 res for an armoury and 5 shotties)
This is all supposed to happen in the first 2-3 mins. If it doesn't then it's not a rush. It's just the same old pressure on a hive (who doesn't actually drop a pg when they're attacking a hive mid-late game?) Which you'd have to be stupid not to do.
Side note: In the time frames you guys are talking about, (4-5 mins) the element of surprise is totally lost, and a rush now just means that the aliens second hive will be lamed up well. If fades come into the equation, it's already too late.
The reason why this is hard to defend against(considering you have descent marines) is the massive respawn rate. If a o chamber is put down its only good against 1 or 2 marines. 6 marines will rape it in a sec. A lerk can gas the marines but if he tries to bite he will die. Remember the aliens have to kill at least 3 marines every time they repsawn and they can not allow their reinforcement cue to get large. If both teams have a large cue the marines can beacon and then it will be 6v2.
Never give out an armory. The marines will hump it and they WILL die faster than they can use all ammo. When the aliens are all in cue then ammo spam you should have the res by then.
Btw whoever said hive in 2 min lies unless playing 5v5 or less. Btw the larger the teamsize the more effective a rush like this is.
whoever said hive in 2 min lies unless playing 5v5
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On a pub server its not the hardest thing you can do. Just because you haven't seen it done doesn't necessarily make it lies.
hello? are you guys reading? rushing means you hit then around the 2 min mark.
You guys are talking about things that generally happen around 5-7 mins.
Yet you say that you're pg rushing. and then you go on and talk about arms labs and upgrades and all sorts of things that CAN'T POSSIBLY HAPPEN.
If you have enough res to drop an arms lab and get armour 1, why not drop an armoury and 3 shotties? or 3 packs of mines?
If you have 65 res to waste on PGs, why not just drop even MORE mines and shotties? and medspam while your'e at it?
why not just try to WIN instead of assuming you're going to lose and getting a back-up plan?
The rest of res should be spent on med packs and ammo. If you have an armory they will hump it. The whole arms lab thing is only if after 2 minutes you are keeping the aliens in the hive but cant get in there and kill it and the aliens cant get to your pg.
1) set up lots of ambushes in active areas, if 6 marines leave base and you kill 1 at each intersection, by the time they reach the hive they will all be dead, or there won't be enough to secure a pg.
2) get several nodes. if marines are focusing hard on the main hive it should be easy to have a quick res flow without defending nodes.
3) get 3 defense chambers. If possible hide them in such a way that they will be relatively safe yet heal areas where marines want to hold. If that is not possible get them by the hive so it is harder for them to rush in and win.
4) get fades, a single good fade has a good chance of slowing down the marine team because they can't afford alot of arms lab upgrades or shotties when they spent extra on fast phase and extra ips instead of nodes. The key thing to remember is that the fade's job is to DELAY, and STAY ALIVE, don't try to be a hero and kill all the marines at once. Try using blink to cause trouble in marine start, anything you can think of to make them react to you instead of following their original plan.
5) get more hives
6) win <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
or just use a lerk like any sensible team