<!--QuoteBegin-Daxx22+Mar 13 2004, 10:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Mar 13 2004, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only see one problem with the knife, the ability to push Fades and Onos around with it. Its just silly to be an onos and get knocked back several feet (particularly if your jumping) by a knifing marine. It never matters much as knife damage against an Onos is negligable, hell regen heals you faster than a marine can knife (unless your an AFK onos)
Its just plain silly.
Damage is fine, the Knockback for higher lifeforms isn't. Purely from an asthetic point of view. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ditto. Damage is fine, the overly disorientating screen jerking and knockback are IMO unnecessary.
hmmm ok ..... if the knife is going to do 30 damage thats like 1/3 of a skulks health so lets make paracite do 20 damage and call it even. that way skulks and marines are equaly effective and 2 ranges.
lol marines are gonna crap their pants over this lol..
wHAT DO YOU MEAN MAKE IT FAIR LIKE THAT OMG OMG OMG I WANT TO WIN AND GET KILLS I DONT WANT TO HAVE OT USE SKILL OMG OMG OMG
I've only ever met one Marine who was really dangerous to approach with a knife out. Skulks just flat out rule over marines in melee, but if you see a marine pull his knife, you have to think a bit differently. When the marine has a gun, the objective is to close the range as fast as possible so you can fight back. When he pulls out his knife, your mindset has to change a little bit, but as long as you can react to it and adjust your tactics accordingly, knifing marines are fairly easy to take down without ever taking a hit in return.
The only complaint I have is that the 3.0 skulk HP nerf reduces you from 4 knife hits to 3. Even with the bonus from 3 Hives, 3.0 skulks still take substantially less damage than 2.0 ones. I would really like to see skulks get an extra 5 armor, bringing them at least close to their 2.0 effectiveness and restoring that 4th knife shot without needing 2 hives first.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Mar 13 2004, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Mar 13 2004, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've only ever met one Marine who was really dangerous to approach with a knife out. Skulks just flat out rule over marines in melee, but if you see a marine pull his knife, you have to think a bit differently. When the marine has a gun, the objective is to close the range as fast as possible so you can fight back. When he pulls out his knife, your mindset has to change a little bit, but as long as you can react to it and adjust your tactics accordingly, knifing marines are fairly easy to take down without ever taking a hit in return.
The only complaint I have is that the 3.0 skulk HP nerf reduces you from 4 knife hits to 3. Even with the bonus from 3 Hives, 3.0 skulks still take substantially less damage than 2.0 ones. I would really like to see skulks get an extra 5 armor, bringing them at least close to their 2.0 effectiveness and restoring that 4th knife shot without needing 2 hives first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All you need for 4 knife hits is 70 hp to be boosted up to 71 hp, but then skulks would take 10 bullets instead of 9 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still smaller hitboxes of the skulk make it harder for the knife to connect so meh.
I suppose knife damage could be lowered to 25... but that's still an unessesary nerf overall.
If we're willing to abandon the idea of "everything must be done in 5s" thats been emphasized more and more recently, the Knife could do 29 damage. That would make it almost identical vs everything, except skulks would get their 4th knife hit back.
It's no big deal fighting a marine with a a knife. The problem is when he has friends with him and you can't just rush in and kill him after he's spent all his ammo.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(Daxx22 @ Mar 13 2004, 10:38 PM) I only see one problem with the knife, the ability to push Fades and Onos around with it. Its just silly to be an onos and get knocked back several feet (particularly if your jumping) by a knifing marine. It never matters much as knife damage against an Onos is negligable, hell regen heals you faster than a marine can knife (unless your an AFK onos)
Its just plain silly.
Damage is fine, the Knockback for higher lifeforms isn't. Purely from an asthetic point of view.
Ditto. Damage is fine, the overly disorientating screen jerking and knockback are IMO unnecessary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point exactly. Remove disorientation for knifed aliens, and the skulk will hit the bite. Problem solved.
When people are saying the knife isn't overpowered, what is that in relation to?
Not overpowered compared to a pistol? Of course not. Pistol's a much better weapon. Nobody's arguing that.
Not overpowered compared to LMG? See above.
Perhaps they mean not overpowered compared to Skulk bite? Well, that's a much harder comparison.. people have brought in things like speed, rates of fire, hitboxes, etc.
Personally, I think that's all bunk anyway.
The knife is the marines weapon for close-quarter's combat. Marines aren't supposed to be good at close quarter combat relative to the aliens. In fact, when compared to the aliens, aren't marines supposed to absolutely suck at close-quarters combat, much like aliens absolutely suck at long-range combat?
Well.. for the aliens, that's true.. they do suck at long-range combat. Marines? They're not exactly good at it, but their melee game is a heck of a lot stronger than the aliens long-range game, IMO.
So, nerf the knife.. give it 15-20 points of blast damage, or lower the ROF to that comparable of Gorge spit.
Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong.
Listen, it's simple. We're not making a direct comparison between knife and skulk bite here. Obviously a skulk has the advantage versus a knifer. However, in any given situation where I see that I can get close to a skulk easily(i.e. not giving the skulk time to prepare), I know that if I pull my knife out and rush it I would have a decent chance at knifing it down. That should not be the case at all. A marine's attempt to knife kill a full health skulk should be completely hopeless, not a chance in hell unless the skulk really really sucks. Successfully finishing off a skulk that you hurt already should be a stroke of luck, not something that you can practically guarantee. The knife is for structures, not aliens. Yes, knifers are weaker than skulks, Forlorn, I'll give you that. I don't have a problem with knife kills being possible, and nobody's saying they're actually an effective way to fight skulks, but they are <u>far</u> too reliable considering the fact that marines are supposed to be completely incompetent in melee.
Drop them to 15 blast damage and I'd be perfectly satisfied. Leave the knife humiliation kills as an extreme last resort, but they would be very rare and completely unreliable.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn was talking in relation to knockback beinge removed and thus making aliens overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database.
I hope you all do realize that alien knockback is actually a NERF against marines in this case, because it knocks the marine outside of his effective knife range.
First off, comparing a <b> standard </b> skulk to an <b> upgraded </b> marine is completely biased.
Secondly, saying knife is overpowered because someone used it to finish you off after using the <b> pistol </b> to do most of the damage is again, a biased observation. Sorry but that's just an instance of "People who resort to theatrics in order to make themselves look good"
How about we nerf spit, I mean, it does more damage than an unupgraded HMG bullet, and we all know that aliens are supposed to be inferior in every way to the marines in regards to ranged combat, and what is up with parasite, I get armor 1 and a skulk bites me twice, and kills me in <b> two </b> parasites, NERF! /sarcasm²
Saying the knife is a "strong" weapon is laughable in every regard. The thing is far inferior to any other marine weapon(save welder, though I don't regard it as a weapon, see below). So, you all have to compare it to the alien weapons, which are, as many like to point out, supposed to be much different in design to the marines'. Let's compare the OC to the siege gun now as well, OMGSIEGEOVEPROWEERDNERFFZ
Also I think the welder was nerfed as a melee weapon because it was intended to be a <b> tool </b>, not a weapon, unlike the knife. So please, abandon that pretense as a sign that Flayra intended marines to not have a "strong" melee weapon(as if they do now... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
My point: Knife is fine, stop using flawed logic and pretense to prove yours. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Say what you want, knife knockback and viewshake has to go. Just today I knifed a_civilians skulk by accident while chopping an RT. Great RoF+viewshake makes it possible.
This skill babble about knifing someone is nonsense - its a reasonably easy weapon to get a few hits with, and the Skulks smaller hitbox doesn't help when he has to eat your face anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn was talking in relation to knockback beinge removed and thus making aliens overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Keep knife knockback, remove the viewshake. The knockback stops you from easily connecting two slashes in a row. If you want to weaken the knife, dont take it away.
is it just me or are there some others on this board which disagree with every post forlorn makes?
well...
imho the knife should not be able to kill the skulk that easily. the skulk is shoot at and looses health and the chance to get finshid of by a good knifer when YOU are in hit distance is relatively high. where is the problem with lowering the damage to 15 and double to structures?
The sheer speed of the skulk vs the marine puts a knifing marine at a significant disadvantage. I play combat the most, and I've seen very few knife kills. A skulk with focus will kill most lvl 2 marines in one hit, and in a high paced battle, anyone knifing is not likely to last very long. Besides, most games don't last very long before there are other classes available, and those who choose to be a skulk afterwards are usually skulks with cloaking, focus, adrenaline, celerity, etc. It's a stupid argument to make the knife a weaker weapon. I'd rather have a larger melee weapon, especially for combat. Have an upgrade to a machete or something, causes like 60 damage a hit. It's very difficult in combat mode when you have like 4 marines spawning in to try and hit even 1 skulk with celerity. By the time that skulk is dead, spawn is being invaded by a wave of how many other aliens. To be perfectly honest, I think that aliens have a bit of an advantage in combat mode, but that may be just the fact that most marines that spawn in have the default sensitivity of 5 and cannot turn quick enough to keep up with a skulk. Hell, I usually play around 8 in most mods, but I'm upping my NS sensitivity from 15 to 17 or so next time I play.
By the way, I get **** when I see this: hypocracy. Anyone see what's wrong with that word? IT'S SPELLED WRONG! You spell it "hypocrisy," not "hypocracy."
<!--QuoteBegin-othell+Mar 14 2004, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Mar 14 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since people want to all but remove the one melee weapon marines have... Lets nerf all distance weapons aliens have. Like acid rocket or spores. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't acid rocket nerfed enough? It's totally useless now imo.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 03:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 03:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn was talking in relation to knockback beinge removed and thus making aliens overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are confused.
I'm talking about 2 different things here.
One is ALIEN knockback. This is when a skulk/fade/onos/lerk bites someone and they are pushed a small tad.
Then we have the knife knockback.
Not only does the knife knock you away, but it also disorients your view. The knife should not do either. It is simply retarded to see an onos pushed back 3 feet from a knife.
I think the knife is fine. It's really fun to get knife kills <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If there should be any change, maybe the range of skulk bite should be slightly increased to help newbies out.
i feel different. acid rocket should be, together with onos, the thing that breaks those end-game turtles. now, it's hardly that. it's hardly worth anything. come on 25 damage, same as spit, from that nice big cannon the fade is carrying? i dont think so.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 14 2004, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 14 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 03:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 03:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 14 2004, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sm|o||o|th+Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sm|o||o|th @ Mar 14 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn was talking in relation to knockback beinge removed and thus making aliens overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are confused.
I'm talking about 2 different things here.
One is ALIEN knockback. This is when a skulk/fade/onos/lerk bites someone and they are pushed a small tad.
Then we have the knife knockback.
Not only does the knife knock you away, but it also disorients your view. The knife should not do either. It is simply retarded to see an onos pushed back 3 feet from a knife. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I knew you were talking about Alien knockback on rines when biting, Kwil obviously didn't, which was why I corrected him...
I should have made myself clearer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-coris+Mar 14 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coris @ Mar 14 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-othell+Mar 14 2004, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Mar 14 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since people want to all but remove the one melee weapon marines have... Lets nerf all distance weapons aliens have. Like acid rocket or spores. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't acid rocket nerfed enough? It's totally useless now imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess you really don't know the meaning of sarcasm.
Knife-kills are STILL rare, even with the bullet 'em-down-to-nothing-and-knife trick. It makes very little difference in the game. Use your energy elsewhere.
I'd like to see combat marines with a second melee weapon, just to make things interesting. Have it available with the first attack upgrade. Make it something that will do 60 damage or so. Something like a big machete. I WANT TO SLICE THE HE|LL OUT OF SKULKS!!!!!
Comments
Its just plain silly.
Damage is fine, the Knockback for higher lifeforms isn't. Purely from an asthetic point of view. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ditto. Damage is fine, the overly disorientating screen jerking and knockback are IMO unnecessary.
lol marines are gonna crap their pants over this lol..
wHAT DO YOU MEAN MAKE IT FAIR LIKE THAT OMG OMG OMG I WANT TO WIN AND GET KILLS I DONT WANT TO HAVE OT USE SKILL OMG OMG OMG
The only complaint I have is that the 3.0 skulk HP nerf reduces you from 4 knife hits to 3. Even with the bonus from 3 Hives, 3.0 skulks still take substantially less damage than 2.0 ones. I would really like to see skulks get an extra 5 armor, bringing them at least close to their 2.0 effectiveness and restoring that 4th knife shot without needing 2 hives first.
The only complaint I have is that the 3.0 skulk HP nerf reduces you from 4 knife hits to 3. Even with the bonus from 3 Hives, 3.0 skulks still take substantially less damage than 2.0 ones. I would really like to see skulks get an extra 5 armor, bringing them at least close to their 2.0 effectiveness and restoring that 4th knife shot without needing 2 hives first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you need for 4 knife hits is 70 hp to be boosted up to 71 hp, but then skulks would take 10 bullets instead of 9 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still smaller hitboxes of the skulk make it harder for the knife to connect so meh.
I suppose knife damage could be lowered to 25... but that's still an unessesary nerf overall.
*GASP!*
Teamwork hax! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I only see one problem with the knife, the ability to push Fades and Onos around with it. Its just silly to be an onos and get knocked back several feet (particularly if your jumping) by a knifing marine. It never matters much as knife damage against an Onos is negligable, hell regen heals you faster than a marine can knife (unless your an AFK onos)
Its just plain silly.
Damage is fine, the Knockback for higher lifeforms isn't. Purely from an asthetic point of view.
Ditto. Damage is fine, the overly disorientating screen jerking and knockback are IMO unnecessary.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point exactly.
Remove disorientation for knifed aliens, and the skulk will hit the bite. Problem solved.
Not overpowered compared to a pistol? Of course not. Pistol's a much better weapon. Nobody's arguing that.
Not overpowered compared to LMG? See above.
Perhaps they mean not overpowered compared to Skulk bite? Well, that's a much harder comparison.. people have brought in things like speed, rates of fire, hitboxes, etc.
Personally, I think that's all bunk anyway.
The knife is the marines weapon for close-quarter's combat.
Marines aren't supposed to be good at close quarter combat relative to the aliens. In fact, when compared to the aliens, aren't marines supposed to absolutely suck at close-quarters combat, much like aliens absolutely suck at long-range combat?
Well.. for the aliens, that's true.. they do suck at long-range combat.
Marines? They're not exactly good at it, but their melee game is a heck of a lot stronger than the aliens long-range game, IMO.
So, nerf the knife.. give it 15-20 points of blast damage, or lower the ROF to that comparable of Gorge spit.
Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong.
Drop them to 15 blast damage and I'd be perfectly satisfied. Leave the knife humiliation kills as an extreme last resort, but they would be very rare and completely unreliable.
huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database.
I hope you all do realize that alien knockback is actually a NERF against marines in this case, because it knocks the marine outside of his effective knife range.
Secondly, saying knife is overpowered because someone used it to finish you off after using the <b> pistol </b> to do most of the damage is again, a biased observation. Sorry but that's just an instance of "People who resort to theatrics in order to make themselves look good"
How about we nerf spit, I mean, it does more damage than an unupgraded HMG bullet, and we all know that aliens are supposed to be inferior in every way to the marines in regards to ranged combat, and what is up with parasite, I get armor 1 and a skulk bites me twice, and kills me in <b> two </b> parasites, NERF! /sarcasm²
Saying the knife is a "strong" weapon is laughable in every regard. The thing is far inferior to any other marine weapon(save welder, though I don't regard it as a weapon, see below). So, you all have to compare it to the alien weapons, which are, as many like to point out, supposed to be much different in design to the marines'. Let's compare the OC to the siege gun now as well, OMGSIEGEOVEPROWEERDNERFFZ
Also I think the welder was nerfed as a melee weapon because it was intended to be a <b> tool </b>, not a weapon, unlike the knife. So please, abandon that pretense as a sign that Flayra intended marines to not have a "strong" melee weapon(as if they do now... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
My point: Knife is fine, stop using flawed logic and pretense to prove yours. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This skill babble about knifing someone is nonsense - its a reasonably easy weapon to get a few hits with, and the Skulks smaller hitbox doesn't help when he has to eat your face anyway.
huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well...
imho the knife should not be able to kill the skulk that easily. the skulk is shoot at and looses health and the chance to get finshid of by a good knifer when YOU are in hit distance is relatively high. where is the problem with lowering the damage to 15 and double to structures?
By the way, I get **** when I see this: hypocracy. Anyone see what's wrong with that word? IT'S SPELLED WRONG! You spell it "hypocrisy," not "hypocracy."
Isn't acid rocket nerfed enough? It's totally useless now imo.
huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are confused.
I'm talking about 2 different things here.
One is ALIEN knockback. This is when a skulk/fade/onos/lerk bites someone and they are pushed a small tad.
Then we have the knife knockback.
Not only does the knife knock you away, but it also disorients your view. The knife should not do either. It is simply retarded to see an onos pushed back 3 feet from a knife.
If there should be any change, maybe the range of skulk bite should be slightly increased to help newbies out.
huh?
The knife knocking you back is a bug. I bet you it's logged in the bug database.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the other hand, remove KB and marines will get flat out owned, by a skulk who simply camps a courner. Marines must push forward, and they must do it with JUST LMG's at the most important parts of the game, and if they cannot surrive against something as simple as a skulk who camps a courner (lots of strategy there) then I guarentee you the game will not be fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn was worried about the problems of a skulk hiding around a corner. Uh.. hello? That's what they're supposed to do.. that's why marines are supposed to move in groups, sending up one guy as point-man and keeping the others back to nail the skulk when it jumps out. Besides, if a skulk is hiding around a corner, is the marine going to pull out his knife to take it on anyway? Of course not, they're going to lay in with the LMG or Pistol first. So it's silly to argue that as a reason to keep the knife strong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'm glad that the knife knockback is a bug and not a feature <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are confused.
I'm talking about 2 different things here.
One is ALIEN knockback. This is when a skulk/fade/onos/lerk bites someone and they are pushed a small tad.
Then we have the knife knockback.
Not only does the knife knock you away, but it also disorients your view. The knife should not do either. It is simply retarded to see an onos pushed back 3 feet from a knife. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I knew you were talking about Alien knockback on rines when biting, Kwil obviously didn't, which was why I corrected him...
I should have made myself clearer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Isn't acid rocket nerfed enough? It's totally useless now imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you really don't know the meaning of sarcasm.
we could remove bite push and it wouldnt make that big of a differnace but their are still lots of stupid poeple who thinks it will ruin the marines.