<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Mar 12 2004, 07:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Mar 12 2004, 07:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Mar 12 2004, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Mar 12 2004, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know it has happened, because I've done it myself, and I've had it done to me. Granted, its not terribly common, but its not that difficult either as long as your on a relatively small server. (6v6 or less) As for your individual points:
1: A marine facing just a gorge down a hallway will have the advantage, yes, but if that gorge has just dropped an OC or two then the Gorge actually has the advantage...especially if he was able to get it say...1/2 built before you showed up. That gorge can take cover from your fire behind the OC and force you to either expend a lot more ammo than normal to try to hit him around it, or chase him around it in circles giving the OC time to build itself.
2: Gorges aren't particularly loud. OC building is...but if you get Silence, the build sound and the drop sound both go away. Granted, theres still a nice chance of the Gorge being interrupted by marines on his way to whatever base hes attacking (works better on expansions than marine home base), but as a Marine commander I don't like having to rely on that chance.
3: True--dropping multiple OCs in hostile territory is a risk. But I believe that most of the time you will get the opportunity to finish building those OCs.
4: A little over 2 clips to kill an undefended OC, but we already know theres a Gorge right behind it. A gorge can add at least another clip to the OC lifespan, and if there is a second OC waiting after you kill the first, you will almost certainly run out of ammo before you kill it.
5: It doesn't have to be 5-6. 3 is more than enough to take out a decent sized turret farm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't really disagree with any of the above points. Your original post made it sound like you were claiming that a gorge, with enough res for OCs, could take on any marine base with little risk to himself. This isn't true, as one competent marine getting there makes the plan risky, while two marines getting there makes the plan extremely dangerous. In smaller games, gorges generally have the res to drop big lumps of offense towers, so losing OCs against a base wouldn't be a big deal.
Gorges can do a lot of damage if they get to an outpost, but it only seems worth it to me if you have a second hive up. That way, you can drop an OC to absorb turret fire, unleash some bilebombs at the phase, drop another OC (res permitting), build them both as you wait for the energy to get back up, then continue bilebombing. A little gorge can take down a big outpost this way, with the OCs giving him a chance against marines that manage to phase in.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+Mar 12 2004, 03:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Mar 12 2004, 03:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The main difficulty with siege is that it really doesn't promote direct conflict between the aliens and the marines.. it ends it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. Really wrong. The siege cannon is one of the biggest promoters of conflict between the two sides. Short of alien's final push on marine base, the rushes on siege encampments have got to be the most intense fights that can be had in this game. Hell, back when the siege was actually fearsome (before they took away its auto-sighting, when it had more health, and had farther range), the simple cry of "siege at <name> hive" brings the WHOLE team there in seconds. There is simply NOTHING that comes close to these battles. Marines are desperate in keeping their siege cannons up, the aliens are desperate to take them down. Unfortunately, now we have the game set up such that we have disorganised aliens that pretty much cares only for themselves (meh, ill come later, saving for onos!), and we have 2 or 3 guys who are gorged and cannot contribute to the battle.
The range and auto-sight nerf were particularly hard on the Siege Cannon. It has been reduced from a Nuke-equivalent (everything in its area of effect gets pwnt) to a simple artillery that, as mentioned, can be replaced with gl's. No, I dont want the nuke version back, but watering it down further is waaay too much. NO TO REMOVING SPLASH DAMAGE.
On the other hand, giving the aliens a counter to it as a way of boosting the importance of unused chambers seem like a good idea. The sensory = no-siege zone might work out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my opinion, I think we should get rid of the seige from the game, BUT, make a marine gun that is like seige that needs like, 10 secs to fire again, Plus you have to go back to spawn to get some batteries for the gun. This would give aliens a fair chance of killling the siege cannons.
<!--QuoteBegin-murphyt4+Mar 18 2004, 08:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (murphyt4 @ Mar 18 2004, 08:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my opinion, I think we should get rid of the seige from the game, BUT, make a marine gun that is like seige that needs like, 10 secs to fire again, Plus you have to go back to spawn to get some batteries for the gun. This would give aliens a fair chance of killling the siege cannons.
Good idea huh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Well, sorry, but not really. You've either given the rine's a strange grenade launcher that fires through walls, or a gun that would take so long to recharge as you need to head back to spawn to fire again, that a hive would heal itself in the time you take. And 10 seconds is quite a while. Picture 2 LMG clips roughly, counting 1 reload.
this is one of the most irrelevent topic here, I mean if something blows up like a cannon, you dont just sit there and scream ' I'm Immune ' because if your getting seiged its your own fault.
ya but do u know how buggy the seige splash is. you can be sitting right beside the building and not get hurt one bit. And then another guy is across the room, and he ends up dying.
what i think should happen is the seiges only target 1 building and dont do splash. what i think this would result in would be longer sieges because all the buildings wouldn't be wiped out in 1 hit. however once all the other buildings are gone the hive is still gonna die just as fast. I just find it rediculus when u have all these structures and they all blow up from a couple blasts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Makaveli^+Mar 18 2004, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Makaveli^ @ Mar 18 2004, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is one of the most irrelevent topic here, I mean if something blows up like a cannon, you dont just sit there and scream ' I'm Immune ' because if your getting seiged its your own fault.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Me+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will disregard all complaints of realism and also not argue for the sake of realism, but instead simply appeal to game balance, and the almighty fun factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Read the thread, please don't post if you have nothing to say.
<!--QuoteBegin-Deadly Pencil+Mar 12 2004, 01:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deadly Pencil @ Mar 12 2004, 01:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ... u think the gorges can hold off a siege do u.... well i remember quite clearly trying to heal a hive with another gorge and we both got splattered by the seige. so tell me this. how am i suppose to heal the hive and keep it alive if the siege is killing me in the process. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ns_hera, kept ventilation hive alive from multiple sieges but dropping a dc into the water. Sieges see that the dc is closer so they target that first and since sieges dont to splash damage on a verticle scale the hive and myself took no damage. Of course this is merely a delaying tactic and because my team sucked the hive eventually died when I ran outta res after a good amount of time. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, the way I see it is if there's an explosion, everything in the radius of that explosion will get hurt and/or destroyed, right?
I like how siege hurts everything if you're in the way. That's why instead of defending the hive against a siege attack, you have to go on the offensive side and destroy the TF(s) powering the siege's. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Deadly Pencil+Mar 18 2004, 07:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deadly Pencil @ Mar 18 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ya but do u know how buggy the seige splash is. you can be sitting right beside the building and not get hurt one bit. And then another guy is across the room, and he ends up dying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats my only complaint about the seige. Its nearly impossible to predict what portions of the room will be damaged by the next siege blast, and you could have been untouched by the last shot and suddenly get fried by the next one. And one seige blast does a LOT of damage, more than a Grenade launcher direct hit.
Comments
1: A marine facing just a gorge down a hallway will have the advantage, yes, but if that gorge has just dropped an OC or two then the Gorge actually has the advantage...especially if he was able to get it say...1/2 built before you showed up. That gorge can take cover from your fire behind the OC and force you to either expend a lot more ammo than normal to try to hit him around it, or chase him around it in circles giving the OC time to build itself.
2: Gorges aren't particularly loud. OC building is...but if you get Silence, the build sound and the drop sound both go away. Granted, theres still a nice chance of the Gorge being interrupted by marines on his way to whatever base hes attacking (works better on expansions than marine home base), but as a Marine commander I don't like having to rely on that chance.
3: True--dropping multiple OCs in hostile territory is a risk. But I believe that most of the time you will get the opportunity to finish building those OCs.
4: A little over 2 clips to kill an undefended OC, but we already know theres a Gorge right behind it. A gorge can add at least another clip to the OC lifespan, and if there is a second OC waiting after you kill the first, you will almost certainly run out of ammo before you kill it.
5: It doesn't have to be 5-6. 3 is more than enough to take out a decent sized turret farm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't really disagree with any of the above points. Your original post made it sound like you were claiming that a gorge, with enough res for OCs, could take on any marine base with little risk to himself. This isn't true, as one competent marine getting there makes the plan risky, while two marines getting there makes the plan extremely dangerous. In smaller games, gorges generally have the res to drop big lumps of offense towers, so losing OCs against a base wouldn't be a big deal.
Gorges can do a lot of damage if they get to an outpost, but it only seems worth it to me if you have a second hive up. That way, you can drop an OC to absorb turret fire, unleash some bilebombs at the phase, drop another OC (res permitting), build them both as you wait for the energy to get back up, then continue bilebombing. A little gorge can take down a big outpost this way, with the OCs giving him a chance against marines that manage to phase in.
Wrong. Really wrong. The siege cannon is one of the biggest promoters of conflict between the two sides. Short of alien's final push on marine base, the rushes on siege encampments have got to be the most intense fights that can be had in this game. Hell, back when the siege was actually fearsome (before they took away its auto-sighting, when it had more health, and had farther range), the simple cry of "siege at <name> hive" brings the WHOLE team there in seconds. There is simply NOTHING that comes close to these battles. Marines are desperate in keeping their siege cannons up, the aliens are desperate to take them down. Unfortunately, now we have the game set up such that we have disorganised aliens that pretty much cares only for themselves (meh, ill come later, saving for onos!), and we have 2 or 3 guys who are gorged and cannot contribute to the battle.
The range and auto-sight nerf were particularly hard on the Siege Cannon. It has been reduced from a Nuke-equivalent (everything in its area of effect gets pwnt) to a simple artillery that, as mentioned, can be replaced with gl's. No, I dont want the nuke version back, but watering it down further is waaay too much. NO TO REMOVING SPLASH DAMAGE.
On the other hand, giving the aliens a counter to it as a way of boosting the importance of unused chambers seem like a good idea. The sensory = no-siege zone might work out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Good idea huh?
Good idea huh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
... Well, sorry, but not really. You've either given the rine's a strange grenade launcher that fires through walls, or a gun that would take so long to recharge as you need to head back to spawn to fire again, that a hive would heal itself in the time you take. And 10 seconds is quite a while. Picture 2 LMG clips roughly, counting 1 reload.
Just like Onos stun, it would last for 1-2 seconds.
Seems like a reasonable compromise to me, and it makes a lot of sence if you think about it.
what i think should happen is the seiges only target 1 building and dont do splash. what i think this would result in would be longer sieges because all the buildings wouldn't be wiped out in 1 hit. however once all the other buildings are gone the hive is still gonna die just as fast. I just find it rediculus when u have all these structures and they all blow up from a couple blasts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Me+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will disregard all complaints of realism and also not argue for the sake of realism, but instead simply appeal to game balance, and the almighty fun factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read the thread, please don't post if you have nothing to say.
ns_hera, kept ventilation hive alive from multiple sieges but dropping a dc into the water. Sieges see that the dc is closer so they target that first and since sieges dont to splash damage on a verticle scale the hive and myself took no damage. Of course this is merely a delaying tactic and because my team sucked the hive eventually died when I ran outta res after a good amount of time. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like how siege hurts everything if you're in the way. That's why instead of defending the hive against a siege attack, you have to go on the offensive side and destroy the TF(s) powering the siege's. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thats my only complaint about the seige. Its nearly impossible to predict what portions of the room will be damaged by the next siege blast, and you could have been untouched by the last shot and suddenly get fried by the next one. And one seige blast does a LOT of damage, more than a Grenade launcher direct hit.