tseepra got a valid point too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And theres the weapon limit
And the need for new models
And the need for new maps..
And the balance..
I just think this could'nt work, it's hard enough to balance classic and combat already.
And.. i think it would be boring as hell. Just launch a server in dev mode, put FF on and ask friends to join marine side only then fire on each others and see...
*Lmg fire* *click click magazine empty* *pistol fire* *click click* *pulls out knife* *slash slash* *random player dies here*
Ranged vs ranged (MvM) and melee vs melee (AvA). Boring. "Only" 9 weapons including the welder for marines.
Lot of programming, modeling, mapping, for something that isnt worth it <i>in my opinion</i> (i love to put this in italic).
I would prefer to see some small additions and polishing done to the current NS. One new weapon for marines maybe (flamethrower comes in mind... eheh). New structures. Third person reloading animations. Or working laser sights on marine's helmets. The ability for the comm to see trough the eyes of a selected marine in a corner of his hud like when you spectate someone with "overview" on ... with a blue tint and interferences when he dies or approach a hive... (alien 2 anyone?) Ok i stop now this isnt S&I <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Last but not least; i think making a petition for something like this not only never works.. i also see it like a "menace" to the dev team.
My advice is; download the HL SDK and start working on your own mod if you're that impatient. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To be certain, there are compelling reasons on both sides of the argument. But really it comes down to two things.
1. The creators drive and time to work on such a project. 2. The cold hard limitations of the HL engine.
As SamR pointed out, HL is limmited with its weapon selection. Someone said something about more weapons, and if this is true then there may be some hope for MvM/AvA. But then again, this new mode will require EXTENSIVE playtesting, time, effort, and various other things that may not be available. One has only to look at vanilla NS. It's been in developement for how long now? 4 years? Only now is it really becoming very balanced to the point where games can end up either way even half way into the game.
but back to the two points. I'm sure Flayra and the rest of the dev team has no lack of willingness to work on such aspects, and if it is truely possible to put more than the original number of weapons into the game, we've cleared most of the obstacles for this new endevor. But i would say the most stumbling problem is the time and manpower.
Let's face it, people don't live for free, and people don't have all the time in the world. So, we've got to spread it out.
<!--QuoteBegin-XP-Cagey+Mar 9 2004, 02:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Mar 9 2004, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good things come to those who wait <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And great things come to those who go out and get them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Belgarion+Mar 11 2004, 02:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Belgarion @ Mar 11 2004, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And great things come to those who go out and get them.
How can we help? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> At the moment, just knowing people are playing NS and enjoying it in its current incarnation is a motivator to keep working; it's great to see people using and enjoying your work (which is also a major reason why I've been able to stay motivated with the tools).
Concise, detailed, and reproducable bug reports are a priority at the moment while NS 3 is being balanced and bugfixed--Charlie is <i>extremely</i> busy at the moment so you might not see it reflected in the bug database, but we're still looking over the incoming reports and still want to make the official release of NS 3.0 something that can stand on its own without issues that require patches.
The Constellation has been a huge boon for Charlie, allowing him to work on NS full time; without those contributions I don't think NS could be as far along as it is today. Once UWE is up and running, it will provide a boost in productivity simply because those of us who need to keep other job commitments will have the opportunity to work on the game full time (assuming we get the jobs <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I don't have a timetable for that to happen though (and neither does anybody else that I'm aware of).
What a beautiful story.." this touched me "NS could be as far along as it is today" What a beautiful words.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the contrary, the TSA almost are rebels. The TransGov corporations hate them, and only keep them around because they're so good at getting their ships and installations back for them. Personally, I think it would make more sense to see the TSA pitched against some sort of TransGov military force.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent point. If Flayra did want to bring in a 3rd team, you could easily have one of the trans-system powers going at it alone. For the sake of arguement, let's use United America. Scenario as follows:
****GALAXY NEWS BULLETIN****
5/10/2204
UA WITHDRAWS FROM TSA
In a shock announcement today by President McNeal, United America announced that it was withdrawing it's support for the Trans System Authority. In a brief statement, McNeal said that United America was "no longer confidant that the Khaara menace can be stopped by the Frountiersmen", and that in light of TSA setbacks such as the disasterous operation on the Hera base, United America would no longer "throw away money on a borderline criminal organisation that lacks the strength and will to see this fight through to the end".
Sources in Washington for some time now have been hinting that such a move as this would be forthcoming. One Georgian senator was quoted as saying "It's time we took the safety of our own citizens into our own hands". There has certainly been an atmosphere of unrest on Capital Hill over the past few years, as details of the TSA's successes, and defeats, against the Khaara have become clear.
Colonial authorities in the Jovian System applauded the decision, issuing statements in support of the policies of Washington. The Jovian Free Press though reported today on their website that large scale demonstrations had broken out after McNeal's accouncement, which were brutally supressed by UA colonial marines. It has not been possible to confirm these reports.
The loss of UA funding will come as a blow to the TSA, but Admiral Rathine Studabar was quick to respond, telling reporters that the Frountiersmen were in no danger of running out of money and that the TSA would continue to function as usual. In a blunt statement Studabar also said that the TSA would respond to any distress signal regardless of whether it originated from a UA vessal or colony. "When the lives of innocents are at risk, politics must step aside".
For a UA government that already has been called belligerant and overly aggressive by some, this gauntlet thrown down by Admiral Studabar will no doubt serve to inflame tempers within the White House and on Capital Hill. What the results of this decision will be are as yet unknown, but given that the war against the Khaara has not being going entirely to plan, this may lead to other trans-system powers cancelling their support.
****GALAXY NEWS BULLETIN****
17/10/2204
UA Marines; TSA Frountiersmen clash in Ariadne Arm
Nearly a month and a half after United American President McNeal withdrew support for the Trans System Authority, armed elemants of both groups have clashed on space station Nothing in the Ariadne Arm. There are no immediate figures of casualties.
Responding to a distress signal sent out by Nothing on the 15th, a Frountiersman squad arrived at the station some 4 hours later and docked. Barely 5 minutes after landing however a United America cruiser (class II Jovian Destroyer) arrived on the scene and demanded that TSA forces evacuate the facility immediatly. What followed is still unknown, but less than half an hour later fighting broke out within the station between Frountiersmen and UA Colonial Marines. A civilian eyewitness working on the station told reporters the following story.
"We'd just heard a vessal docking with the station and a whole bunch of us, maybe 100 people or so started heading over to the docking wing. When we got there, we found two groups of soldiers. We knew who they were; Frountiersmen and UA Colonial marines, we'd seen the later around on the station and the former on the news. As we approached it became clear that they were shouting and argueing. We picked up a bit of the conversation; the UA Commander was demanding that the TSA got off the station immediatly and the TSA Commander was saying he wouldn't move unless he got confirmation that the civilians in the facility wouldn't be harmed.
Anyways as they were argueing one of us, Jeff I think his name was, walked across and asked what was going on. The UA Commander immediatly turned to us and told us that we were all going to be sent into military quarentine and we were under arrest for conspiring with foreign powers. Then he grabbed Jeff and slapped a pair of restraints on him. The TSA commander told the UA Commander to release Jeff, but he wouldn't. Next thing we knew one of the UA marines screamed and suddenly bullets were flying everywhere. Didn't know why the first guy had cried out, but it didn't matter now; it was just chaos. We hid behind some frieght boxes until the shooting stopped, then a Frountiersmen officer just herded up the lot of us and put us on the ship. There were heaps of bodies in the docking area; blood everywhere."
This account was confirmed by several other colonists currently under TSA protection.
President McNeal was quick to denounce what he called a "brutal, unprovoked assault upon UA civilians and soldiers" and demanded an immediate apology. TSA Admiral Rathine Studaber responded immediatly, showing reporters a number of intercepted radio transmittions indicating that the UA had been planning to blow up the whole station with the colonists still aboard. McNeal called these documents "venemous lies" and stated that "at all times, the security and well-being of our citizens is paramount ". Studaber then asked why the Frountiersmen squad on the station had found over 40 kilos of Tetramite explosive amongst the equipment of the UA Colonial Marines, going on to say that such an amount could easily destroy the whole station, and that Tetramite was only used in demolition work. McNeal accussed the Frountiersmen of fabricating the explosive themselves.
Though this incident occured a mere 2 days ago, already the diplomatic and political implications have been far-reaching. The Martian Republic applauded the actions of the TSA and issued a statement that "For the people in space, the TSA is your best friend". Jovian Union officials also stood behind the TSA's actions. Scattered reports from remote colonies have also indicated a general feeling of support for the TSA. The China Territories and the European Space Agency both condemmed the TSA operation, calling it an "act of rebellion" and "space terrorism". The Neptunian Freight Organisation went further, calling for the removal of the TSA and warning that any such incursions onto NFO property would be "equivilant to an act of war".
It is still unclear as to how destabilising this event will be, but from the responses today it is clear that neither side is willing to back down on the issue. Though it would be far to early to predict that this could lead to open war, despite the NFO's claims, with the khaara manace still unchecked it seems likely that more such encounters will occur throughout the Ariadne Arm. Given the political fallout from just one such incident, the future is very much uncertain.
There you go, that only took me half an hour and I'm sure Flayra could think up something better in a split second. Storyline wise you could easily incorperate a 3rd power; gameplay though is a whole other kettle of seafood. What I simply wish to show is that a 3rd power is definitely plausible in the NS universe.
I couldn't see AvA happen unless theres new kinds of aliens(mutants, created by marine genetic experimentations, or put Xen instead of marines, but that would need to be totally seperate mod), MvM i can see happen, Mongols Vs TSA(the Mongols mentioned in the Sanjii or what literature it was, just reskin some bits of buildings, change weapon looks, no need for new mod or enything new groundbreaking).
Comments
tseepra got a valid point too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And theres the weapon limit
And the need for new models
And the need for new maps..
And the balance..
I just think this could'nt work, it's hard enough to balance classic and combat already.
And.. i think it would be boring as hell. Just launch a server in dev mode, put FF on and ask friends to join marine side only then fire on each others and see...
*Lmg fire* *click click magazine empty* *pistol fire* *click click* *pulls out knife* *slash slash* *random player dies here*
Ranged vs ranged (MvM) and melee vs melee (AvA). Boring. "Only" 9 weapons including the welder for marines.
Lot of programming, modeling, mapping, for something that isnt worth it <i>in my opinion</i> (i love to put this in italic).
I would prefer to see some small additions and polishing done to the current NS. One new weapon for marines maybe (flamethrower comes in mind... eheh). New structures. Third person reloading animations. Or working laser sights on marine's helmets. The ability for the comm to see trough the eyes of a selected marine in a corner of his hud like when you spectate someone with "overview" on ... with a blue tint and interferences when he dies or approach a hive... (alien 2 anyone?) Ok i stop now this isnt S&I <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Last but not least; i think making a petition for something like this not only never works.. i also see it like a "menace" to the dev team.
My advice is; download the HL SDK and start working on your own mod if you're that impatient. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To be certain, there are compelling reasons on both sides of the argument. But really it comes down to two things.
1. The creators drive and time to work on such a project.
2. The cold hard limitations of the HL engine.
As SamR pointed out, HL is limmited with its weapon selection. Someone said something about more weapons, and if this is true then there may be some hope for MvM/AvA. But then again, this new mode will require EXTENSIVE playtesting, time, effort, and various other things that may not be available. One has only to look at vanilla NS. It's been in developement for how long now? 4 years? Only now is it really becoming very balanced to the point where games can end up either way even half way into the game.
but back to the two points. I'm sure Flayra and the rest of the dev team has no lack of willingness to work on such aspects, and if it is truely possible to put more than the original number of weapons into the game, we've cleared most of the obstacles for this new endevor. But i would say the most stumbling problem is the time and manpower.
Let's face it, people don't live for free, and people don't have all the time in the world. So, we've got to spread it out.
<!--QuoteBegin-XP-Cagey+Mar 9 2004, 02:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Mar 9 2004, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good things come to those who wait <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And great things come to those who go out and get them.
How can we help?
How can we help? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
At the moment, just knowing people are playing NS and enjoying it in its current incarnation is a motivator to keep working; it's great to see people using and enjoying your work (which is also a major reason why I've been able to stay motivated with the tools).
Concise, detailed, and reproducable bug reports are a priority at the moment while NS 3 is being balanced and bugfixed--Charlie is <i>extremely</i> busy at the moment so you might not see it reflected in the bug database, but we're still looking over the incoming reports and still want to make the official release of NS 3.0 something that can stand on its own without issues that require patches.
The Constellation has been a huge boon for Charlie, allowing him to work on NS full time; without those contributions I don't think NS could be as far along as it is today. Once UWE is up and running, it will provide a boost in productivity simply because those of us who need to keep other job commitments will have the opportunity to work on the game full time (assuming we get the jobs <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I don't have a timetable for that to happen though (and neither does anybody else that I'm aware of).
What a beautiful words.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Excellent point. If Flayra did want to bring in a 3rd team, you could easily have one of the trans-system powers going at it alone. For the sake of arguement, let's use United America. Scenario as follows:
****GALAXY NEWS BULLETIN****
5/10/2204
UA WITHDRAWS FROM TSA
In a shock announcement today by President McNeal, United America announced that it was withdrawing it's support for the Trans System Authority. In a brief statement, McNeal said that United America was "no longer confidant that the Khaara menace can be stopped by the Frountiersmen", and that in light of TSA setbacks such as the disasterous operation on the Hera base, United America would no longer "throw away money on a borderline criminal organisation that lacks the strength and will to see this fight through to the end".
Sources in Washington for some time now have been hinting that such a move as this would be forthcoming. One Georgian senator was quoted as saying "It's time we took the safety of our own citizens into our own hands". There has certainly been an atmosphere of unrest on Capital Hill over the past few years, as details of the TSA's successes, and defeats, against the Khaara have become clear.
Colonial authorities in the Jovian System applauded the decision, issuing statements in support of the policies of Washington. The Jovian Free Press though reported today on their website that large scale demonstrations had broken out after McNeal's accouncement, which were brutally supressed by UA colonial marines. It has not been possible to confirm these reports.
The loss of UA funding will come as a blow to the TSA, but Admiral Rathine Studabar was quick to respond, telling reporters that the Frountiersmen were in no danger of running out of money and that the TSA would continue to function as usual. In a blunt statement Studabar also said that the TSA would respond to any distress signal regardless of whether it originated from a UA vessal or colony. "When the lives of innocents are at risk, politics must step aside".
For a UA government that already has been called belligerant and overly aggressive by some, this gauntlet thrown down by Admiral Studabar will no doubt serve to inflame tempers within the White House and on Capital Hill. What the results of this decision will be are as yet unknown, but given that the war against the Khaara has not being going entirely to plan, this may lead to other trans-system powers cancelling their support.
****GALAXY NEWS BULLETIN****
17/10/2204
UA Marines; TSA Frountiersmen clash in Ariadne Arm
Nearly a month and a half after United American President McNeal withdrew support for the Trans System Authority, armed elemants of both groups have clashed on space station Nothing in the Ariadne Arm. There are no immediate figures of casualties.
Responding to a distress signal sent out by Nothing on the 15th, a Frountiersman squad arrived at the station some 4 hours later and docked. Barely 5 minutes after landing however a United America cruiser (class II Jovian Destroyer) arrived on the scene and demanded that TSA forces evacuate the facility immediatly. What followed is still unknown, but less than half an hour later fighting broke out within the station between Frountiersmen and UA Colonial Marines. A civilian eyewitness working on the station told reporters the following story.
"We'd just heard a vessal docking with the station and a whole bunch of us, maybe 100 people or so started heading over to the docking wing. When we got there, we found two groups of soldiers. We knew who they were; Frountiersmen and UA Colonial marines, we'd seen the later around on the station and the former on the news. As we approached it became clear that they were shouting and argueing. We picked up a bit of the conversation; the UA Commander was demanding that the TSA got off the station immediatly and the TSA Commander was saying he wouldn't move unless he got confirmation that the civilians in the facility wouldn't be harmed.
Anyways as they were argueing one of us, Jeff I think his name was, walked across and asked what was going on. The UA Commander immediatly turned to us and told us that we were all going to be sent into military quarentine and we were under arrest for conspiring with foreign powers. Then he grabbed Jeff and slapped a pair of restraints on him. The TSA commander told the UA Commander to release Jeff, but he wouldn't. Next thing we knew one of the UA marines screamed and suddenly bullets were flying everywhere. Didn't know why the first guy had cried out, but it didn't matter now; it was just chaos. We hid behind some frieght boxes until the shooting stopped, then a Frountiersmen officer just herded up the lot of us and put us on the ship. There were heaps of bodies in the docking area; blood everywhere."
This account was confirmed by several other colonists currently under TSA protection.
President McNeal was quick to denounce what he called a "brutal, unprovoked assault upon UA civilians and soldiers" and demanded an immediate apology. TSA Admiral Rathine Studaber responded immediatly, showing reporters a number of intercepted radio transmittions indicating that the UA had been planning to blow up the whole station with the colonists still aboard. McNeal called these documents "venemous lies" and stated that "at all times, the security and well-being of our citizens is paramount ". Studaber then asked why the Frountiersmen squad on the station had found over 40 kilos of Tetramite explosive amongst the equipment of the UA Colonial Marines, going on to say that such an amount could easily destroy the whole station, and that Tetramite was only used in demolition work. McNeal accussed the Frountiersmen of fabricating the explosive themselves.
Though this incident occured a mere 2 days ago, already the diplomatic and political implications have been far-reaching. The Martian Republic applauded the actions of the TSA and issued a statement that "For the people in space, the TSA is your best friend". Jovian Union officials also stood behind the TSA's actions. Scattered reports from remote colonies have also indicated a general feeling of support for the TSA. The China Territories and the European Space Agency both condemmed the TSA operation, calling it an "act of rebellion" and "space terrorism". The Neptunian Freight Organisation went further, calling for the removal of the TSA and warning that any such incursions onto NFO property would be "equivilant to an act of war".
It is still unclear as to how destabilising this event will be, but from the responses today it is clear that neither side is willing to back down on the issue. Though it would be far to early to predict that this could lead to open war, despite the NFO's claims, with the khaara manace still unchecked it seems likely that more such encounters will occur throughout the Ariadne Arm. Given the political fallout from just one such incident, the future is very much uncertain.
There you go, that only took me half an hour and I'm sure Flayra could think up something better in a split second. Storyline wise you could easily incorperate a 3rd power; gameplay though is a whole other kettle of seafood. What I simply wish to show is that a 3rd power is definitely plausible in the NS universe.